Indo-China Border & LAC

[Anants]

Our men seem to be outnumbered in most of these videos

Yes. Chinese were enjoying benefits of connectivity till last mile. We were twiddling our thumbs till then in terms of infra depending upon capabilities of Jawan, which I am sorry because of lack of Infra- we kept loosing lands to Chinese in previous two decades in LAC area.

 

[BlackViking]

The Indian Labour force is not skilled enough to work in Electronics industry. Foxconn Media report on Iphone Manufacturing in Indian clearly emphasized this point. We are going to give Visas to Chinese for training our workforce.

Yes. Add manufacturing also. A simple component that we can buy from chinkus at 150-200 INR, with customs and shipping, manufacturers in India (north) who claim they make defense shiet, are saying it is not feasible to machine

 

[Blademaster]

IA needs to start being aggressive and capture land as a rebuke to Chinese demands.

 

[maximus777]

IA needs to start being aggressive and capture land as a rebuke to Chinese demands.

The political class will sh.t bricks in Delhi if this happens

 

[Blademaster]

The political class will sh.t bricks in Delhi if this happens

So fucking what?

 

[maximus777]

So fucking what?

I am all for it, but think about the ruckus the INDI lund alliance, abdools and rice bags will create. Bhajipao and supreme leader dont have the testicular fortitude to handle the fallout.

 

[srev2004]

I am all for it, but think about the ruckus the INDI lund alliance, abdools and rice bags will create. Bhajipao and supreme leader dont have the testicular fortitude to handle the fallout.

India just needs to wait this out. The power differential will decrease year over year. The ones with the time pressure are Chinese. They want us to feel this way. Just keep the deployment and maintain status quo.

There is a demographic time bomb in China and a debt based economy fallout that will happen in 3-5 years. India should move when that happens.

 

[srev2004]

Both US and China have a window of 5 years to destabilize India. India simply needs to hold tight, focus on growth and strengthening national security apparatus.

The fractures within US and China will expand causing them to yield space to a third pole, India.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Huh? Their policy has not changed; they are carving out an exception for the supliers of Apple, Samsung etc. Certain Taiwanese companies with links to Hong Kong based investors were off limits earlier - they are being allowed through the JV route. There is no indication that their broader protectionist policies are changing anytime soon; BYD, Changan, Great Wall Motors have not been allowed to set up shops in India despite repeated applications. Mahindra was forced to halt talks with Shaanxi as recently as a month back.

As per latest news Mahindra will use the hybrid system of BYD for it's next gen cars. (Tech transfer)

 

[Blood+]

IA needs to start being aggressive and capture land as a rebuke to Chinese demands.

Not with the state the Army and Air Force are in right now. Even Pakistanis now have almost twice the number of AWACS as compared to us, just to give you one little example.

 

[srev2004]

Not with the state the Army and Air Force are in right now. Even Pakistanis now have almost twice the number of AWACS as compared to us, just to give you one little example.

Can there be some accidental brahmos lqunches?

 

[Miss Firing]

View: https://x.com/globaltimesnews/status/1829108362140618935

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Can there be some accidental brahmos lqunches?

Such instances just show the armed forces in more bad light

 

[ezsasa]

Our men seem to be outnumbered in most of these videos

few other points..

- aggressor has the advantage of choosing time and place, so they can concentrate their numbers as per their plans. defender has to either do scientific guessing or depend on intel to spread their resources along the forward line in anticipation, so numbers may not be at hand in the golden hour. and naturally an aggressor will not challenge the defender to own disadvantage.

- CCP are nationalists, they amplify their strengths and de-amplify their weaknesses in their propaganda. in our case, our folks tend to amplify our weakness more than our strengths in the name of democratic accountability.

 

[srev2004]

few other points..

- aggressor has the advantage of choosing time and place, so they can concentrate their numbers as per their plans. defender has to either do scientific guessing or depend on intel to spread their resources along the forward line in anticipation, so numbers may not be at hand in the golden hour. and naturally an aggressor will not challenge the defender to own disadvantage.

- CCP are nationalists, they amplify their strengths and de-amplify their weaknesses in their propaganda. in our case, our folks tend to amplify our weakness more than our strengths in the name of democratic accountability.

Couldn’t agree more. Only defending is a losing strategy.

 

[Blood+]

Can there be some accidental brahmos lqunches?

Only if the missiles accidentaly end up breaking and entering the hangers housing PAF AWACS.

 

[Anants]

few other points..

- aggressor has the advantage of choosing time and place, so they can concentrate their numbers as per their plans. defender has to either do scientific guessing or depend on intel to spread their resources along the forward line in anticipation, so numbers may not be at hand in the golden hour. and naturally an aggressor will not challenge the defender to own disadvantage.

- CCP are nationalists, they amplify their strengths and de-amplify their weaknesses in their propaganda. in our case, our folks tend to amplify our weakness more than our strengths in the name of democratic accountability.

True but its also another parameter thats available to democracy - is the failure evaluation. Forget about who was ruling. No one can dispute that since Kargil - China has transgressed and maintained control over more lands in LAC and Arunachal than before. Not doubting our forces. But one's forces can do little if in the name of scorched earth for many decades country refused to develop the border connectivity. Logistics Trail is the backbone of any Army. And maintaining Logistics trail is more easy if connectivity infra is there. There were enough murmurs in newspapers in previous 2 - decades about Chinese infra build up. But we kept on stating - we fought in Siachen, Kargil we can fight Chinese anywhere. Yes we could fight them - but nobody dare to say - could we dominate them. Only in murmurs and Hints through opeds, articles we got pleads to do something about border infra. Its only after 2014 , more so after Galwan we changed our policy about Border development.

Being Communists they have the advantage that they can become unashamed aggressors. But how democracy failed to even properly implementing defence in previous decades is a question to ponder about.

 

[ezsasa]

True but its also another parameter thats available to democracy - is the failure evaluation. Forget about who was ruling. No one can dispute that since Kargil - China has transgressed and maintained control over more lands in LAC and Arunachal than before. Not doubting our forces. But one's forces can do little if in the name of scorched earth for many decades country refused to develop the border connectivity. Logistics Trail is the backbone of any Army. And maintaining Logistics trail is more easy if connectivity infra is there. There were enough murmurs in newspapers in previous 2 - decades about Chinese infra build up. But we kept on stating - we fought in Siachen, Kargil we can fight Chinese anywhere. Yes we could fight them - but nobody dare to say - could we dominate them. Only in murmurs and Hints through opeds, articles we got pleads to do something about border infra. Its only after 2014 , more so after Galwan we changed our policy about Border development.

Being Communists they have the advantage that they can become unashamed aggressors. But how democracy failed to even properly implementing defence in previous decades is a question to ponder about.

to contextualise the infrastructure bit in terms of time line.

1999 - when kargil was happening, one or two companies present for entire ladakh sector.
2000 - post kargil, decision was made to strengthen china facing sectors.
2006 - 70+ projects were surveyed, identified, and sanctioned.
2008 - chinese internal literature starts mentioning India as an adversary.
2012 - Xi becomes president
2015 - projects sanctioned in 2006 were going at a snail's pace due to bureaucracy. B.R.O gets re- organised to get it fully under MoD. as infra improved, number of confrontations between Indian and chini forces increased.
2017 - doklam incident
2020 - galwan incident.

more details are filled in this timeline, more the clarity on sequence of events. events like nuclear deal, DBO "unofficial" re-opening by IAF etc.

 

[Anants]

to contextualise the infrastructure bit in terms of time line.

1999 - when kargil was happening, one or two companies present for entire ladakh sector.
2000 - post kargil, decision was made to strengthen china facing sectors.
2006 - 70+ projects were surveyed, identified, and sanctioned.
2008 - chinese internal literature starts mentioning India as an adversary.
2012 - Xi becomes president
2015 - projects sanctioned in 2006 were going at a snail's pace due to bureaucracy. B.R.O gets re- organised to get it fully under MoD. as infra improved, number of confrontations between Indian and chini forces increased.
2017 - doklam incident
2020 - galwan incident.

more details are filled in this timeline, more the clarity on sequence of events. events like nuclear deal, DBO "unofficial" re-opening by IAF etc.

Thanks. Kindly also add information chinese transgressions in same time frame.

 

[ezsasa]

Thanks. Kindly also add information chinese transgressions in same time frame.

1999 - when kargil was happening, one or two companies present for entire ladakh sector.
2000 - post kargil, decision was made to strengthen china facing sectors.
2005 - Nuclear deal between India and U.S
2006 - 70+ projects were surveyed, identified, and sanctioned.
2008 - IAF "unofficially" re-opens on DBO air strip
2008 - chinese internal literature starts mentioning India as an adversary.
2012 - Xi becomes president
2013 - DBO incident , chini troops came in just before their premiere's visit
2014 - Modi becomes Prime Minister
2014 - along to Xi's visit to New Delhi came their troops at border with infra heavy equipment in demchok
2015 - projects sanctioned in 2006 were going at a snail's pace due to bureaucracy. B.R.O gets re- organised to get it fully under MoD. as infra improved, number of confrontations between Indian and chini forces increased.
2015 - Depsang incident
2017 - Pangong Tso incident
2017 - Doklam incident
2020 - Sikkim Incident
2020 - Galwan incident

to get exact number of confrontations/flag drills per year, will have to search for them in parliament Q&A. not sure if these numbers are published on a regular basis, these will be in thousands spread across years.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29373304
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacif...ffs-between-chinese-and-indian-armies/1879115
https://www.orfonline.org/research/chinas-two-front-conundrum

Impasse at the LAC: An Examination of the 2013, 2014, and 2015 Standoffs

This article examines the significance of the 2013, 2014, and 2015 border standoffs between India and China. It presents a detailed account of the border crises and how the two countries tried to manage them.

carnegieendowment.org