Indo Russia Relations

Russia is eternally late on supplying weapons commitments.
Anyone remember Adm. gorshkov deal? Or should I say, Adm. gorshkov delay!!?
 
Blademaster said:
And what about GE taking forever to supply F-404 engines?
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Same. Both are unreliable partners.
One has policy unreliability - USA.
Other has technical problems - Russia.
However, on matters of strategic interest, we should choose Russia, any given day.
 
Vishnugupt said:
Reliability on Murica is always fatal. The engine chosen for its great reliability was the reason for first Tejas crash.

I'm not saying engine is bad but also it's not what Brown Sipoy portraits.

I don't know why India don't go for a JV with Japan or Russia?
Click to expand...


JV with Russians.

They scammed HAL with Millions of dollars for FGFA Program. Russians will never allow us to go near the Hot core tech. They will teach us the art of making Cold core tech which we can manufacture anyway with existing capability.

Also Japan does not have any Fighter jet engine program and Japanese are not ready to export any military products to other countries.

To achieve Indigenous engines, GoI need to draw the check allow GTRE and associated Private sector vendor to start the work. This includes setting up All testing facility.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
JV with Russians.

They scammed HAL with Millions of dollars for FGFA Program. Russians will never allow us to go near the Hot core tech. They will teach us the art of making Cold core tech which we can manufacture anyway with existing capability.

Also Japan does not have any Fighter jet engine program and Japanese are not ready to export any military products to other countries.

To achieve Indigenous engines, GoI need to draw the check allow GTRE and associated Private sector vendor to start the work. This includes setting up All testing facility.
Click to expand...

Japan have an engine program and it's progressing well. ( IHI XF9 )

India have never asked Russia for engine collaboration because UN Generals do not want it.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
JV with Russians.

They scammed HAL with Millions of dollars for FGFA Program. Russians will never allow us to go near the Hot core tech. They will teach us the art of making Cold core tech which we can manufacture anyway with existing capability.

Also Japan does not have any Fighter jet engine program and Japanese are not ready to export any military products to other countries.

To achieve Indigenous engines, GoI need to draw the check allow GTRE and associated Private sector vendor to start the work. This includes setting up All testing facility.
Click to expand...

Technology is not science. Building a critical piece of technology requires much more than funding and expertise. It requires a lot of time and an experienced human-resource pool. That is why the US and USSR were competing to get hold of the German engineers and technologies at the end of the WW2.

The aircraft engine technology has been gradually refined by the western and Russian businesses over the past several decades. If we start from the scratch now, we will end up loosing close to those many years, if not more.

Beg, borrow, steal. The first two options have failed to deliver results. We must try the third option.
 
londonparistokyo said:
You joke, but I am not joking.
Click to expand...

Unlike a scientific fact which is sitting right there for somebody to discover, it takes time and money for a technology to evolve and mature.

The western countries have been working on the aircraft engine since around WW1. They have got the first mover advantage. We are late in the game, just like China.

If we start now, whatever the best we can produce will seriously lag behind the western technology, at least for several decades to come. In the defense sector this is not affordable/feasible. We always need to be equipped to maintain the deterrence.

We have got two short-term options: buy the know-how from somewhere, and if not then steal the technology so that we won't need to "invent the wheel".

Off topic: We can have a meaningful discussion if you stop the flame-baiting.
 
DingDong said:
Unlike a scientific fact which is sitting right there for somebody to discover, it takes time and money for a technology to evolve and mature.

The western countries have been working on the aircraft engine since around WW1. They have got the first mover advantage. We are late in the game, just like China.

If we start now, whatever the best we can produce will seriously lag behind the western technology, at least for several decades to come. In the defense sector this is not affordable/feasible. We always need to be equipped to maintain the deterrence.

We have got two short-term options: buy the know-how from somewhere, and if not then steal the technology so that we won't need to "invent the wheel".

Off topic: We can have a meaningful discussion if you stop the flame-baiting.
Click to expand...
If such was the case, how can Indian ICBMs have a lower published CEP than even the best Western ICBMs?
 
spikey360 said:
If such was the case, how can Indian ICBMs have a lower published CEP than even the best Western ICBMs?
Click to expand...

IMO there is something unique about our government agencies and planners. You see them taking a direction with resolve and achieve amazing feats of success at frugal budgets. These reflect the tremendous determination of our country.

However, there is an overall lack of what I came across on Twitter being floated around, a Sanskrit term called "Shatrubodha". It means, the ability to think like how one's enemy thinks and outsmart them. This concept is missing in India's planners.

India's determination to be able to strike far away without manned assistance back in the 80s led to the ballistic missile program. This focus since then, has dissipated and the following governments have been embroiled in filling their pockets. PM Modiji has tried, but is constrained by the fabric of his conscience and altruistic thinking. He prefers that benevolence over cold, hard pragmatism, unlike Erdogan, Putin, Xi and other strong leaders.

I added Erdogan here for context because despite his petulant antics, warped sense of economics, and hubris, he has been smart in accelerating Turkey's military development program that has created a steady stream of income-generation and also a solid foundation for expanding its influence through defence deals. He has managed to keep Putin off his country due to NATO while being the snake and double-dealing from within NATO. He's been pragmatic to let Ukrainians test out Turkish hardware and use it for marketing Turkish arms in the emerging world, while signing deals with secondary NATO allies like Poland, Romania, and other countries.

That's quite an impressive feat for a nobody nation which was until a decade ago, a vassal of the American Empire.
 
spikey360 said:
Russia is eternally late on supplying weapons commitments.
Anyone remember Adm. gorshkov deal? Or should I say, Adm. gorshkov delay!!?
Click to expand...
The deal was a mismanagement of epic proportions by India. Details of the entire mismanagement needs a through review and its no longer a secret in defence spheres.

Post 1992 , the Indians and Chinese both were engaged by cash deficit Russia to look into various products , while the Chinese took away entire prodcution lines and intellectual manpower involved in various projects , Indian political musical chairs resulted in shady deals with Sukhoi , Sevmash , Mig and almost eveything the Russians had to offer.

The resultant picture was clear by 2001 that the deal was goofed up big time and projected timelines and parameters were impractical and improbable.

Recent deals post 2004 till 2019 with Russia have met timlines and future projections , testsment to the mismanagement and babu culture of the 90s in India with a disintegration Russia who had so much to offer to India at that time.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
JV with Russians.

They scammed HAL with Millions of dollars for FGFA Program. Russians will never allow us to go near the Hot core tech. They will teach us the art of making Cold core tech which we can manufacture anyway with existing capability.

Also Japan does not have any Fighter jet engine program and Japanese are not ready to export any military products to other countries.

To achieve Indigenous engines, GoI need to draw the check allow GTRE and associated Private sector vendor to start the work. This includes setting up All testing facility.
Click to expand...
well now japan is ready to export critical military weapons to their friendly countries like india etc....i heard they r ready to sell their unicorn radars for our upcoming frigates. they can help us in diesel submarine case, but unfortunately they dont want to give/share their sauryu nd taigai class diesel submarine. their other military equipment r not useful to us, coz they r too much costly. may be they can help us in izomo class helicopter carrier, coz we r looking for LHD. but for that also, spain juan carlos nd france mistral class amphibious assault ships r more suitable for us.
www.vifindia.org

Japan Abandons its Three Basic Principles on Arms Exports

www.vifindia.org www.vifindia.org
 
Vinash said:
Surprised, nobody came across this so far?



View: https://x.com/connect_rishav/status/1815759962238304676

defence-blog.com

Leak exposes details of Russian-Indian S-400 deal

On July 15, 2024, the cyber-activist group Cyber Resistance, in collaboration with the international intelligence community InformNapalm, began releasing a series of publications named BaumankaLeaks. The data stemmed from hacked emails of high-ranking Russian officers, revealing sensitive...
defence-blog.com defence-blog.com
Click to expand...

Will the so called infonapalm site also releases zelenskys master chinas s400 data and details of their training specialist too, there is propaganda in this leak, although the leak still is significant .

Scorpion leak was much more significant.
But french and Indian experts claimed "koi nahi ghusa"

thewire.in

There's No Reason for India to Lose Sleep Over the Scorpene Leak

In practical terms, submarine detection in the ocean involves several strategies in which noise frequencies are not overly relevant.
thewire.in thewire.in


 
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