Kaveri Engine

I gather that it is proposed to flight test Kaveri AB version on a Tejas frame. Obviously not a good idea (no redundancy). Why can't it be tested on a Russian FTB, as was done 15(?) years ago? Cost?
 
Bhartiya Sainik said:
Comparing Kaveri engine to some similar good engines & also F-22's F119

View attachment 6658

I made a concurrent graph bringing all parameters of Kaveri to 100 & then adjusting other engines in same ratio, so now we can see what other engines have their parameters less or more.

View attachment 6562

This is a common person's approach - given a particular cylindrical space, how much air can be sucked in & thrust generated per unit engine volume.

Values near the 100 line with less deviation :
> The Turbine inlet temp. of other engines is just 100-200 K more.
> Dry SFC, except for F119 which is unusually low.
> Compressor + Turbine stages just b/w 10-12.
- EJ-200 has 1 less HPC stage yet its OPR is more than M-88-2 & Kaveri & equal to F119.
- Increasing 1 HPC stage in F414 increases OPR to 30.
> Engine length 349-399 cm. I wonder - after flame holder, how long should be a tail pipe.
> Dry thrust b/w 50-60 KN.
> Air mass flow of others is lesser, except F119 obviously.

Big variations :
> Parameters much higher :
- BPR of all engines is more, especially EJ-200 enabling EF-2000 to SuCr @ Mach 1.5. The F119 BPR is same as of M-88-2 but F-22 SuCr at M 1.8 but Rafale at M 1.4, although there are other design parameters also.
- Dry thrust/engine-weight of M-88-2 & EJ-200 are significantly high.
- Also the dry thrust/engine-volume.
> Parameters much lower :
- Inlet diameter/area, except F119
- Engine volume, except F119
- Engine weight, except F119

So what to do with Kaveri Engine?
> Change BPR from 0.16 to b/w 0.25 & 0.4
> Increase OPR by increasing 1 more HPC stage or re-engineer blades of current stages.
> Increase SFC little bit.
> Decrease engine weight.
> Re-engineer Afterburner & nozzle sections.
That's all an enthusiast can say :peep::scared1:
Click to expand...

This is good work.

The under 1 Ton weight of M-88 is engineering marvel. The weight of Kaveri also was reduced from 1400 KG during prototype to the current 1180 KG. Any idea about what efforts are being put to further reduce it to under 1 Ton?
 
warriorextreme said:
This is good work.

The under 1 Ton weight of M-88 is engineering marvel. The weight of Kaveri also was reduced from 1400 KG during prototype to the current 1180 KG. Any idea about what efforts are being put to further reduce it to under 1 Ton?
Click to expand...
Can you give a source for this ? The 1400 Kg is quoted a lot on the webs.
 
warriorextreme said:
The CAG report mentions the initial weight of 1400 KG


The Current 1180 KG weight is mentioned on one of the PDF documents on DRDO website. (its clippings of various news articles)

Click to expand...
The 1180kg is in reference to the non afterburning version not the original one though.
 
karn said:
The 1180kg is in reference to the non afterburning version not the original one though.
Click to expand...
Something's amiss. If the dry Kaveri version weighs ~ 1200 kgs how much is it supposed to weigh with the AFB ? 1600 kgs ? That's nearly twice the weight of the M-88.
 
Azaad said:
Something's amiss. If the dry Kaveri version weighs ~ 1200 kgs how much is it supposed to weigh with the AFB ? 1600 kgs ? That's nearly twice the weight of the M-88.
Click to expand...
Without more information I cannot tell for sure. Perhaps the lack of an afterburner necessitates some extra components . The weight of the kaveri is already mentioned it's 1400kgs
 
warriorextreme said:
The CAG report mentions the initial weight of 1400 KG


The Current 1180 KG weight is mentioned on one of the PDF documents on DRDO website. (its clippings of various news articles)

Click to expand...
The first one was 1400 kg version, then the famous which you all see now is 1235 kg, with the advances DRDO gained they are aiming for 1100 kg.
So, K9 is 1235 kg.
With advances in materials as well as manufacturing process which DRDO has developed untill now, K10 will be 1100 kg, in this we will try to increase the thrust to go above or reach the F404 tejas 89 KN thrust goal. The parts of K10 are already seen in Kaveri dry of Ghatak that Godrej is producing.
Now, after all of this come that elusive joint venture with companies which will be K11 engine. All of these weights are with afterburner weight included.
 
Data from Wiki

M-88-2
Weight 897 kg
Thrust 75 kN (16,900 lbf)
T/W ratio 8.52

EJ200
Weight 988 kg
Thrust 90 kN (20,200 lbf)
T/W ratio 9.17

Kaveri
Weight 1180 kg ?
Thrust 80 kN ?
T/W ratio ?

On those figures Kaveri T/W ratio is far lower than EJ200. Could an engine with a T/W ratio that low (7:1 ?) be used in Mk1A?
 
Last edited:
Spitfire IX said:
Data from Wiki

M-88-2
Weight 897 kg
Thrust 75 kN (16,900 lbf)
T/W ratio 8.52

EJ200
Weight 988 kg
Thrust 90 kN (20,200 lbf)
T/W ratio 9.17

Kaveri
Weight 1180 kg ?
Thrust 80 kN ?
T/W ratio ?

On those figures Kaveri T/W ratio is far lower than EJ200. Could an engine with a T/W ratio that low (7:1 ?) be used in Mk1A?
Click to expand...
Precisely why they are looking for consulatncy on K 10, to get few more kilos shaved and few tons of thrust in dry and wet increased. While using current dry version of Kaveri (hopefully ) in Ghatak application.
 
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