Language policy in today's age , and the increased regionalism present.how to reach consensus with various groups and anything else you may contribute

[johny_baba]

Let me explain how Hindi imposition happening.
Go to any post office PSU bank and ask for withdraw slip and oila there is no local language only Hindi and English. All the customer facing employees are Hindi walas ( GoI removed domicile policy to fill Hindi speakers in non Hindi states) doesn’t know a letter of local language and asks to speak in Hindi and if they speak English they switch over to Hindi in half a sentence. I regularly go to bank and seen people struggle to converse with bank employees because they are kanging in Hindi and saying Hindi me bolo or write slip who are educated in local language. You are from Gujrat and just look at NH boards in Gujarat there is no Hindi but in all south states the boards and mile stones are written in Hindi and English ( some cases there is no local language boards). The entitlement of Hindi walas ( Hindi is national language and forcing the locals so that they can be comfortable in their own language own culture is not acceptable.
Regarding 3 language formulas none in north India follow that UP has drawing and no third language is thought despite they’re population migrated south for living but force south to follow hindi as third language because Hindi migrants can be comfortable in South Indian states when they migrate?

Yeah even in Gujarat side almost all nationalised bank staffers are hindi speakers, but most suburban and urban gujjus know hindi thanks to TV and media so they're able to converse just fine, many rural gujjus would still converse in gujarati while other guy's responding in hindi lol

though not all but many highways that were renovated/enacted recently do have boards in Hindi

but thing is, Gujarat's state education board does have hindi madhyam (with gujarati as compulsory second language subject upto high school) options for kids of northern folks migrating over here

for most non-technical kind of government service-job openings here, gujarati is a compulsory subject, involves gujarati grammar things , and even native natural speakers fail in those exams many times - but it's seen as a move to debar non-gujarati candidates

as a gujarati, i really don't mind Hindi here, BUT I VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE WHOREDU SPREADING IN NAME OF HINDI, and apparently many hindi speakers here don't seem to care about it and just go fine with it

perhaps off-topic but i remember a post by you criticising lakhnawi whoredu appreciator dindus somewhere,
when these people come over here and mock us, telling "hindi toh failengi" i can't help but think "hindi ke naam par whoredu faila rhe ho tum log" (and being proud at it)

View attachment 20973
this may seem some random rant but let me come to my point later



true, but sleeping hondas are of many kinds, one who are high on churan of secularism and bhoy-bhoy, your ignorant fools,

BUT then we have other, innate dangerous kind of "awaken-yet-sleeping" chhaps who are high on soycealism churan and thinks that they can "secularise" or "indianise" peacefuls of India similar to how erstwhile USSR did to their satellite state ones to some success - and to achieve their idealised form of society and state they are willing to take enemy sides over some matters

View attachment 20975

i remember some posts on twitter where they were suggesting of sending whoredu speaking peacefuls to karnataka to fight with their anti-hindi chauvinism recently ; agar hindi nahi toh urdu hi sahi

it's better to fight over language chauvinism than getting played by supporters of ideology that wishes to uproot civilizations over their goals

so yeah, internal enemies aren't comprised of peacefuls only, we have our own traitors who shall side with these folks over their things

this is why in past i criticised whoredu peddlers - some of them are even from hindi belt as a way to 'counter' regional chauvinism hurr durr...hindi ke naam par whoredu fel jata hai
and whoredu is full of such invader-chhap mentality or connotations for females, the word they use as a noun for females is literally...yeah
@Jackprince bhai, since you mentioned it elsewhere




btw it's not only whoredu, look at japanese word for female - onna 女
this character is originally from chinese, and in japanese style of pronunciation it can also be read as 'jo' or 'jou'
calling someone onna in japanese may mean diverse things, starting from simple woman, to 'mistress' or 'prostitute' in quite 'awwrat' fashion (a woman that's old enough to indulge in sexual ways)

 

[Magadha Naresh]

I agree with Johnny baba , as I have studied in that system .
My school was cbse , but they had gujarati and I learned it , my friend from Kerala helped me a lot to get better in gujarati .
But hindi's spread must continue for the sake of unity if nothing else.
Like how Mandarin has spread
But unlike mandarin it must not substitute or destroy any other regional in the process. language, which should be nurtured but along with Hindi .
, as for daily occurences, they can be ironed out slowly also by hindi I mean nagari hindi before ghaznavid invasions .
Not hindustani.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Yeah even in Gujarat side almost all nationalised bank staffers are hindi speakers, but most suburban and urban gujjus know hindi thanks to TV and media so they're able to converse just fine, many rural gujjus would still converse in gujarati while other guy's responding in hindi lol

though not all but many highways that were renovated/enacted recently do have boards in Hindi

but thing is, Gujarat's state education board does have hindi madhyam (with gujarati as compulsory second language subject upto high school) options for kids of northern folks migrating over here

for most non-technical kind of government service-job openings here, gujarati is a compulsory subject, involves gujarati grammar things , and even native natural speakers fail in those exams many times - but it's seen as a move to debar non-gujarati candidates

as a gujarati, i really don't mind Hindi here, BUT I VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE WHOREDU SPREADING IN NAME OF HINDI, and apparently many hindi speakers here don't seem to care about it and just go fine with it

I think PSU banks stopped region level transfers and moved to Country level transfers. Unless you are women you will thrown into every corner of India.

Meanwhile SR staffs were more or less Hindi Speaking people. This is also due to Railways allowing candidates outside state to apply. This was during my college days when one of my friend went to RRB where 80-90% were outside TN state folks. Reason these guys told were due to lack of competition from TN folks in SR they have better chance to get selected.

I met few railway staffs in Hubli who can speak Hindi, English, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam. Guy literally asked our language and switch to it. Meanwhile me and my friend with only knowledge of Tamil and English.

Absolute Cinema I can say.

 

[johny_baba]

there's also this thing, that

modern Gujarati, is nothing but a giga mongrel language - the grammar was standardised by certain English officer here, he simply picked the grammar and dialect from 'Gujarat' (means Ahmedabad and adjacent regions) and got it standardised with Hindi's grammar in 1800s here, then, Gujarati overall has plenty of words from Persian, Arabic, Urdu, Portuguese and nowadays speedily accepting English words too - I'm not sure but at least 40 percent of words in daily usage are 'loan words' - all of that happened because of various invaders ruled over us and all linguistic exchange happened due to that

It's also a fact that most 'standardised' gujarati 'spellings' of words are written-spoken in ways Mahatma Gandhi led efforts, who was founder of Gujarat Vidhyapeeth here, they released 'Jodanikosh' and he even declared 'After the publication of this dictionary no one has the right to do as his fancy dictates in the matter of spelling'
though there exist a distinct shabdakosh by certain Unjha (a place famous here for spice trades) that may have different spellings of Gujarati words

all this 'standardisation' has created this peculiar situation here, that, a subruban or urban gujju going to rural sides, he may get baffled by "gaamadiyaa" (means dehati) words-phrases-idioms and sometimes even tones or pronunciation of things is vastly different

overall Gujarati has 8-10 different accents/dialects, in my side of Saurashtra here, accent/dialect is ;Kathiyawadi; and we have 'leheko' means upwards-downwards pitch of tone in conversing (kinda like how mandarin chinese, japanese have in them lol), and sometimes we just pronounce ch, s-sh words with 'ha' in sindhi style - e.g. Suvu (to sleep) would often become Huvu in kathiyawadi style, Chakli (sparrow) would become Sakli and so

then, upto just recently i think 2019 some times, there were plenty of Persian-Arabic-Whoredu words in "administrative Gujarati" = lingo of sarkaari files and stuff that Gujarat Sarkaar eventually got rid of with new, updated 'administrative lingo' by adopting various natural Gujarati words as well as English popular words and omitting older era stuff

so yeah, I find it difficult to correlate with most middle and early era Gujarati things (both linguistic and cultural) when current 'Modern' Gujarati is hardly 200-some years old phenomena, and still changing

 

[Magadha Naresh]

there's also this thing, that

modern Gujarati, is nothing but a giga mongrel language - the grammar was standardised by certain English officer here, he simply picked the grammar and dialect from 'Gujarat' (means Ahmedabad and adjacent regions) and got it standardised with Hindi's grammar in 1800s here, then, Gujarati overall has plenty of words from Persian, Arabic, Urdu, Portuguese and nowadays speedily accepting English words too - I'm not sure but at least 40 percent of words in daily usage are 'loan words' - all of that happened because of various invaders ruled over us and all linguistic exchange happened due to that

It's also a fact that most 'standardised' gujarati 'spellings' of words are written-spoken in ways Mahatma Gandhi led efforts, who was founder of Gujarat Vidhyapeeth here, they released 'Jodanikosh' and he even declared 'After the publication of this dictionary no one has the right to do as his fancy dictates in the matter of spelling'
though there exist a distinct shabdakosh by certain Unjha (a place famous here for spice trades) that may have different spellings of Gujarati words

all this 'standardisation' has created this peculiar situation here, that, a subruban or urban gujju going to rural sides, he may get baffled by "gaamadiyaa" (means dehati) words-phrases-idioms and sometimes even tones or pronunciation of things is vastly different

overall Gujarati has 8-10 different accents/dialects, in my side of Saurashtra here, accent/dialect is ;Kathiyawadi; and we have 'leheko' means upwards-downwards pitch of tone in conversing (kinda like how mandarin chinese, japanese have in them lol), and sometimes we just pronounce ch, s-sh words with 'ha' in sindhi style - e.g. Suvu (to sleep) would often become Huvu in kathiyawadi style, Chakli (sparrow) would become Sakli and so

then, upto just recently i think 2019 some times, there were plenty of Persian-Arabic-Whoredu words in "administrative Gujarati" = lingo of sarkaari files and stuff that Gujarat Sarkaar eventually got rid of with new, updated 'administrative lingo' by adopting various natural Gujarati words as well as English popular words and omitting older era stuff

so yeah, I find it difficult to correlate with most middle and early era Gujarati things (both linguistic and cultural) when current 'Modern' Gujarati is hardly 200-some years old phenomena, and still changing

Also folks , there are surprised by " kachhii" .
Whenever someone went there , the discussion would always start with how different kutch folks speak compared to Saurashtra folks.
Kathiyawad , is in itself a very small region .
Folks from Saurashtra are always surprised by kachii

 

[Magadha Naresh]

there's also this thing, that

modern Gujarati, is nothing but a giga mongrel language - the grammar was standardised by certain English officer here, he simply picked the grammar and dialect from 'Gujarat' (means Ahmedabad and adjacent regions) and got it standardised with Hindi's grammar in 1800s here, then, Gujarati overall has plenty of words from Persian, Arabic, Urdu, Portuguese and nowadays speedily accepting English words too - I'm not sure but at least 40 percent of words in daily usage are 'loan words' - all of that happened because of various invaders ruled over us and all linguistic exchange happened due to that

It's also a fact that most 'standardised' gujarati 'spellings' of words are written-spoken in ways Mahatma Gandhi led efforts, who was founder of Gujarat Vidhyapeeth here, they released 'Jodanikosh' and he even declared 'After the publication of this dictionary no one has the right to do as his fancy dictates in the matter of spelling'
though there exist a distinct shabdakosh by certain Unjha (a place famous here for spice trades) that may have different spellings of Gujarati words

all this 'standardisation' has created this peculiar situation here, that, a subruban or urban gujju going to rural sides, he may get baffled by "gaamadiyaa" (means dehati) words-phrases-idioms and sometimes even tones or pronunciation of things is vastly different

overall Gujarati has 8-10 different accents/dialects, in my side of Saurashtra here, accent/dialect is ;Kathiyawadi; and we have 'leheko' means upwards-downwards pitch of tone in conversing (kinda like how mandarin chinese, japanese have in them lol), and sometimes we just pronounce ch, s-sh words with 'ha' in sindhi style - e.g. Suvu (to sleep) would often become Huvu in kathiyawadi style, Chakli (sparrow) would become Sakli and so

then, upto just recently i think 2019 some times, there were plenty of Persian-Arabic-Whoredu words in "administrative Gujarati" = lingo of sarkaari files and stuff that Gujarat Sarkaar eventually got rid of with new, updated 'administrative lingo' by adopting various natural Gujarati words as well as English popular words and omitting older era stuff

so yeah, I find it difficult to correlate with most middle and early era Gujarati things (both linguistic and cultural) when current 'Modern' Gujarati is hardly 200-some years old phenomena, and still changing

Will it be samhbhdo or haambhdo ?
And chale che or hale che ?

 

[Magadha Naresh]

I think PSU banks stopped region level transfers and moved to Country level transfers. Unless you are women you will thrown into every corner of India.

Meanwhile SR staffs were more or less Hindi Speaking people. This is also due to Railways allowing candidates outside state to apply. This was during my college days when one of my friend went to RRB where 80-90% were outside TN state folks. Reason these guys told were due to lack of competition from TN folks in SR they have better chance to get selected.

I met few railway staffs in Hubli who can speak Hindi, English, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam. Guy literally asked our language and switch to it. Meanwhile me and my friend with only knowledge of Tamil and English.

Absolute Cinema I can say.

That was absolute cinema indeed.

 

[johny_baba]

Will it be samhbhdo or haambhdo ?
And chale che or hale che ?

lol, both is acceptable, depending on speaker/listener

but in my observations, casual chatting happens in local accent/dialect, serious discussions happen in standard gujju as one has to consciously utter those stuff with emotions

Also folks , there are surprised by " kachhii" .
Whenever someone went there , the discussion would always start with how different kutch folks speak compared to Saurashtra folks.
Kathiyawad , is in itself a very small region .
Folks from Saurashtra are always surprised by kachii

kutchhi is indeed linguistically a different thing than Gujarati, since they don't have a writing system (or it simply got extinct due to invasions or whatever) it's deemed a dialect, but grammatically and linguistically it's probably a fork of Sindhi
now Modern Sindhi itself is a bastardised thing because script used to write it is Persian-Arabic one, thanks to well invaders again, but there's seemingly no attempt to 'indigenise' Sindhi on our side due to loss of Sindh region during partition - and likewise not much attempt at taking Kutchhi further - though in past many times various serkari linguists here attempted at giving a writing script to Kutchhi but it never succeeded, jab tak prajaa swayam inko swikaaregi nahi toh kitna bhi prayas kar lo kuchh nahi hoga...

 

[Magadha Naresh]

lol, both is acceptable, depending on speaker/listener

but in my observations, casual chatting happens in local accent/dialect, serious discussions happen in standard gujju as one has to consciously utter those stuff with emotions



kutchhi is indeed linguistically a different thing than Gujarati, since they don't have a writing system (or it simply got extinct due to invasions or whatever) it's deemed a dialect, but grammatically and linguistically it's probably a fork of Sindhi
now Modern Sindhi itself is a bastardised thing because script used to write it is Persian-Arabic one, thanks to well invaders again, but there's seemingly no attempt to 'indigenise' Sindhi on our side due to loss of Sindh region during partition - and likewise not much attempt at taking Kutchhi further - though in past many times various serkari linguists here attempted at giving a writing script to Kutchhi but it never succeeded, jab tak prajaa swayam inko swikaaregi nahi toh kitna bhi prayas kar lo kuchh nahi hoga...

Damn , let's move away from Hindi thing .
Usko rehne dete hain , my frens used to say that folks from Kutch don't know how to speak at all . In bihar
And Jharkhand maithili had it's own lipi, very similar to bangla called mithlakshar, now it's written in devnagri .
Although in exams , ( devnagri one is valid )
Thus maithili was distinct from bhojpuri ( the language which is used to represent all of Bihar lol ) in script too .
It's still distinct but script same now
this is Bhojpuri written in its orignal kaithi lipi
Maithli with tirhut or mithla akshar

A tenth century inscription from india Nepal border.
Earliest inscriptions are from mandar paravt in india in 7 th century .
This may look like bangla but it's not.
Something similar should have occured with gujrati.

 

[Magadha Naresh]

@johny_baba
Kaithi looks very close to gujrat from a cursory glance.


On left , it's maithli written in 7 th century ad , mandar hills bihar
On right it's devnagri .

 

[Magadha Naresh]

I think PSU banks stopped region level transfers and moved to Country level transfers. Unless you are women you will thrown into every corner of India.

Meanwhile SR staffs were more or less Hindi Speaking people. This is also due to Railways allowing candidates outside state to apply. This was during my college days when one of my friend went to RRB where 80-90% were outside TN state folks. Reason these guys told were due to lack of competition from TN folks in SR they have better chance to get selected.

I met few railway staffs in Hubli who can speak Hindi, English, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam. Guy literally asked our language and switch to it. Meanwhile me and my friend with only knowledge of Tamil and English.

Absolute Cinema I can say.

PSU banks till clerical level have region based transfer , basically those who interact the most
And now similar thing is being done for officers at lower scales. Basically scale 3 and below .
Above that it's all india transfer for officers.

 

[Magadha Naresh]

It's indeed absolute cinema .
as far as languages and related issues go in india .

 

[johny_baba]

One thing i particularly like about Tamils and Bengalis, is they do seem to work on localisation projects of various softwares with language options, since my childhood i've often seen plenty of softwares like common adobe acrobat pdf, adobe photoshop, notepad++ etc available in these languages

even Hindi versions of softwares aren't this prevalent

 

[shade2]

One thing i particularly like about Tamils and Bengalis, is they do seem to work on localisation projects of various softwares with language options, since my childhood i've often seen plenty of softwares like common adobe acrobat pdf, adobe photoshop, notepad++ etc available in these languages

even Hindi versions of softwares aren't this prevalent

Even Mallus.
I used to assume them and Tamils were at the forefront of localising for their languages, never knew about the bongs

 

[johny_baba]

Even Mallus.
I used to assume them and Tamils were at the forefront of localising for their languages, never knew about the bongs

bengali situation could also be attributed to our kanglu subhuman neighbours (sic), otherwise yes

one thing that complicated software localisation things is, Unicode Consortium, because when it comes to typing into local languages, most old era typewriters, made by those Godrej and Remington folks, do not comply with Unicode things whose aim is rather to just fill in a code for various characters - so a typist/user has/had to go through a different set of training altogether to get a grip over writing with Unicodes - fortunately 'transliteration' style keyboard softwares exist that simplify these tasks, but it's sometimes akin to putting a bull before cart, because now one has to master 'romanised' versions of their languages first to eventually get typing into that native language (including myself here)

if you look at europeans, they emphasized on bringing direct keyboards, like French-Belgians have that AZERTY thing, Germans have QUERTZ, Russians and Cyrilic-users have Cyrilic keyboards - even Japanese have their own keyboard with extra keys to natively write in hiragana-katakana etc...While our folks never bothered about it due to preference of English

 

[realsumo]

Go to any post office PSU bank and ask for withdraw slip and oila there is no local language only Hindi and English. All the customer facing employees are Hindi walas ( GoI removed domicile policy to fill Hindi speakers in non Hindi states) doesn’t know a letter of local language and asks to speak in Hindi and if they speak English they switch over to Hindi in half a sentence. I regularly go to bank and seen people struggle to converse with bank employees because they are kanging in Hindi and saying Hindi me bolo or write slip who are educated in local language

Wait, how is this possible? A language proficiency test is required for junior associates (Clerks, customer sales and support executive) in bank exams.

 

[realsumo]

People are naturally rebellious. They wouldn’t learn a language simply because they’re asked to. One common language does benefit a country, but in a country like ours, it needs to be mutually agreed upon — and Hindi is one option that is, logically, the most optimal, due to the vast number of people who speak it and the influence it has had for so many years since independence. Even remote areas like Arunachal use it as their connecting language among various tribes. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t be accepted as a common language due to political reasons. So, what options do we have now?

1) Go full China mode and shove Hindi down everyone’s throat, like they did with Mandarin. But that won’t work here, as we are a democracy. It would just cause more riots and protests and give more ammunition to those regional parties who thrive on the us-vs-them rhetoric.

2) Use English as a common language and make it the only official language. I think there would be fewer protests if English were used instead of Hindi. Secondly, one of our major problems is that we aren’t exporting enough soft power. If English were widespread, and if we could export English-language content, we could expand our soft power — especially if some of that content went viral.

That’s just what I think.

 

[Magadha Naresh]

People are naturally rebellious. They wouldn’t learn a language simply because they’re asked to. One common language does benefit a country, but in a country like ours, it needs to be mutually agreed upon — and Hindi is one option that is, logically, the most optimal, due to the vast number of people who speak it and the influence it has had for so many years since independence. Even remote areas like Arunachal use it as their connecting language among various tribes. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t be accepted as a common language due to political reasons. So, what options do we have now?

1) Go full China mode and shove Hindi down everyone’s throat, like they did with Mandarin. But that won’t work here, as we are a democracy. It would just cause more riots and protests and give more ammunition to those regional parties who thrive on the us-vs-them rhetoric.

2) Use English as a common language and make it the only official language. I think there would be fewer protests if English were used instead of Hindi. Secondly, one of our major problems is that we aren’t exporting enough soft power. If English were widespread, and if we could export English-language content, we could expand our soft power — especially if some of that content went viral.

That’s just what I think.

Not English , angrej kehte hai ki english hi bharat ko jod ke rakha hai.
Ye kya kam lajja ki baat hai , jo unki baat ko 2ra vikalp apna kar pramanit bhi kar de ?

 

[Magadha Naresh]

bengali situation could also be attributed to our kanglu subhuman neighbours (sic), otherwise yes

one thing that complicated software localisation things is, Unicode Consortium, because when it comes to typing into local languages, most old era typewriters, made by those Godrej and Remington folks, do not comply with Unicode things whose aim is rather to just fill in a code for various characters - so a typist/user has/had to go through a different set of training altogether to get a grip over writing with Unicodes - fortunately 'transliteration' style keyboard softwares exist that simplify these tasks, but it's sometimes akin to putting a bull before cart, because now one has to master 'romanised' versions of their languages first to eventually get typing into that native language (including myself here)

if you look at europeans, they emphasized on bringing direct keyboards, like French-Belgians have that AZERTY thing, Germans have QUERTZ, Russians and Cyrilic-users have Cyrilic keyboards - even Japanese have their own keyboard with extra keys to natively write in hiragana-katakana etc...While our folks never bothered about it due to preference of English

ऐसे कैसे , गूगल कीबोर्ड से अब आप अपनी मन पसंद भाषा में लिख सकते हैं।
गूगल एक अच्छी कंपनी है

 

[realsumo]

Not English , angrej kehte hai ki english hi bharat ko jod ke rakha hai.
Ye kya kam lajja ki baat hai , jo unki baat ko 2ra vikalp apna kar pramanit bhi kar de ?

Whenever I hear such rhetoric from any Brit, I just say this:

When the British arrived, there was one India — politically fragmented like Europe and undergoing a civil war, perhaps, but still one.

When the British left, there were three new countries, 565 princely states, and rivers of blood.

Edit: Like I said, Hindi was the most optimal and logical choice. But it wasn’t meant to be. If the Hindi-speaking regions had been more developed, there might have been an economic incentive for people to learn the language. However, due to the freight equalisation policy, the Hindi-speaking states never industrialised, and resources were siphoned off to the coastal states — states where Hindi wasn't commonly spoken. So, there’s no real incentive to learn it. And because of regional pride and political reasons, it won’t be accepted as a common language. So, what other option is there besides English?