LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[shade2]

Actually the scenario is changing very fast .
Our two main weapon suppliers are in war (Russia , israel).
If china attacks us then , no one is there to save us .

When tejas was in its initial days , usa companies tried to stop it to fly , by writing letters
Now the same usa companies are halting enginee deliveries .

They will be forced to restart Kaveri engine development with #PhoolSapportSaar

When J-20s lob bombs on Delhi just to flex

 

[Nutcracker]

J

Yes the fault is HAL's for selecting the GE engine but then again the white masta( US ) keeps this door open so that the GoI ofc goes for the path of least resistance ToT bullshit route.
UK is a US pet chihuahua so if the US is fucking with us the UK will too, same with Germany.

France is a good choice, if we are willing to pay through the nose but then US will come there too to arm-twist the guys into denying or delaying us the jet engine tech.

Russians are out of the picture for a while.

Only option is to roll our own but Govt doesn't take it seriously and the IAF gernails are probably fantasizing about Gripen and F16

IAF Jurnails rejected Kaveri with Snecma core for LCA and actively took part in the selection of GE.

 

[Patriots]

J


IAF Jurnails rejected Kaveri with Snecma core for LCA and actively took part in the selection of GE.

Actually snecma demanded more money, so the deal never happened

 

[SlayingHell]

J


IAF Jurnails rejected Kaveri with Snecma core for LCA and actively took part in the selection of GE.

I don't know where I read this but Snecma demanded a lot of money and also royalties and GoI even thought that money if invested would itself be alone for full desi engine. When it comes to squeezing money no one can beat french, we were asked to pay not only the development fees but also the royalties with each engine manufactured and practically we don't get anything. We still have to do Know-Why of Hot section. All in all, its the same whether importing F414 hot section or Snecma Hot section, only here plus is French are reliable.

 

[Anants]

I hope now that Uncle Sam never gives any jet engines to us.
So that finally GoI opens it's pockets and Kaveri can be resurrected.

mate only thi g that will happen is iaf will push lca and kaveri into limbo.. and will go in full sapport to french/ruskie/isnglistani imporrt mode.

 

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1842423034814066742

 

[Spitfire IX]

mate only thi g that will happen is iaf will push lca and kaveri into limbo.. and will go in full sapport to french/ruskie/isnglistani imporrt mode.

How can IAF push LCA into limbo? 83 were ordered, are being built and will be delivered. Is IAF going to freeze their use when there is a severe shortage of fighters in IAF?

Kaveri is different. It is a project where it is very difficult to predict when it will be completed or if it will ever produce a viable engine. A 1980's technology engine appearing in the 2030's may work perfectly well but not be a viable choice to use in aircraft to be produced in the 2030's.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

How can IAF push LCA into limbo? 83 were ordered, are being built and will be delivered. Is IAF going to freeze their use when there is a severe shortage of fighters in IAF?

Kaveri is different. It is a project where it is very difficult to predict when it will be completed or if it will ever produce a viable engine. A 1980's technology engine appearing in the 2030's may work perfectly well but not be a viable choice to use in aircraft to be produced in the 2030's.

You know what u try to diss kaveri everytime calling 1980s technology who told u it's 1980s tech.
Post 2010 many new technologies where developed which are now integrated in new dry kaveri. And afterburner section is coming from brahmos aerospace..
It won't be as good as error 404 but it would at par with thrust in regards. It won't have 6000hrs life but it will be much better for us.
Other than life it wouldn't lack anywhere when compared to f404.
And post 2030 we be either manufacturing f414 and safran jv will be going on this two things will brings us at very good position.

 

[Spitfire IX]

You know what u try to diss kaveri everytime calling 1980s technology who told u it's 1980s tech.
Post 2010 many new technologies where developed which are now integrated in new dry kaveri. And afterburner section is coming from brahmos aerospace..
It won't be as good as error 404 but it would at par with thrust in regards. It won't have 6000hrs life but it will be much better for us.
Other than life it wouldn't lack anywhere when compared to f404.
And post 2030 we be either manufacturing f414 and safran jv will be going on this two things will brings us at very good position.

I don't dismiss Kaveri. I suggest that GOI should invest to get it finished. I suggest that the project should be managed in a competent manner. I suggest that incompetents involved should be replaced with competents. I suggest taking the steps needed to get Kaveri to the point where it can be used in a fighter. That was and remains the aim, as far as I know.

I definitely do not know exactly how much modern tech is incorporated in Kaveri. Has it got single crystal fan blade or blisk technology etc? Sure, all it needs to do for Mk1A is to produce sufficient thrust reliably at an acceptable rate of fuel consumption for an acceptable number of hours. That is good enough for India's immediate needs, isn't it? GOI has failed to invest enough to get it to that point yet. Perhaps GTRE has not been good at managing the development either.

Regarding F414, TOT is limited to manufacturing TOT, isn't it?

I do not think that any OEM will be passing on enough technology in a jv for India to design, develop and manufacture its own engines. Why should they? India cannot make an engine for AMCA. It is in a position where it has to accept whatever the foreign OEM's are prepared to offer.

I think that India is kidding itself if it thinks it will magically be able to develop its own engines through ToT. If it wants to be able to develop its own engines I think that GOI belatedly needs to start investing billions of dollars over perhaps a decade or two to develop the technologies required.

 

[Nutcracker]

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1842423034814066742

Bootyful but CGI..

 

[Anants]

How can IAF push LCA into limbo? 83 were ordered, are being built and will be delivered. Is IAF going to freeze their use when there is a severe shortage of fighters in IAF?

Kaveri is different. It is a project where it is very difficult to predict when it will be completed or if it will ever produce a viable engine. A 1980's technology engine appearing in the 2030's may work perfectly well but not be a viable choice to use in aircraft to be produced in the 2030's.

How are you going to build Tejas if GE engines are blocked according to original premise in the post which I quoted as response?

We had grand plans for Marut too. But lack of engines killed it. IAF stonewalled any fruther iterations. You can read mindset of IAF from Vijainder K Thakur blog who was first Marut pilot and later Jaguar Pilot.

It shall tell you IAF is complete oblivious of concepts like product development cycle, iterative development, development pangs etc.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

I don't dismiss Kaveri. I suggest that GOI should invest to get it finished. I suggest that the project should be managed in a competent manner. I suggest that incompetents involved should be replaced with competents. I suggest taking the steps needed to get Kaveri to the point where it can be used in a fighter. That was and remains the aim, as far as I know.

I definitely do not know exactly how much modern tech is incorporated in Kaveri. Has it got single crystal fan blade or blisk technology etc? Sure, all it needs to do for Mk1A is to produce sufficient thrust reliably at an acceptable rate of fuel consumption for an acceptable number of hours. That is good enough for India's immediate needs, isn't it? GOI has failed to invest enough to get it to that point yet. Perhaps GTRE has not been good at managing the development either.

Regarding F414, TOT is limited to manufacturing TOT, isn't it?

I do not think that any OEM will be passing on enough technology in a jv for India to design, develop and manufacture its own engines. Why should they? India cannot make an engine for AMCA. It is in a position where it has to accept whatever the foreign OEM's are prepared to offer.

I think that India is kidding itself if it thinks it will magically be able to develop its own engines through ToT. If it wants to be able to develop its own engines I think that GOI belatedly needs to start investing billions of dollars over perhaps a decade or two to develop the technologies required.

What we need is hot section technology & new CMC thing. Rest what we have is enough.
Ofc F414 manufacturing tot is limited to manufacturing but that would have some prospects for refinement in existing tech.
And also there were some talks for know how know why let's see. Ofc they aren't giving hot section core tech for manufacturing let alone they will give know how.
Anyways the western manufacturing process are superior and can be good for kaveri.

On the other hand you're right why should foreign vendor give us critical tech they have Invested there's no way it's there butter & milk.

The jv will only happen when they will be giving us the needed tech. & We are willing to pay for it we aren't asking for free: ) If we would invest half the amount we would there we can have result delivered but we don't have time & patience for that. The time period needed will be huge.

And if supposedly this jv happens it will further helps us in our programs.

 

[Spitfire IX]

The jv will only happen when they will be giving us the needed tech. & We are willing to pay for it we aren't asking for free: ) If we would invest half the amount we would there we can have result delivered but we don't have time & patience for that. The time period needed will be huge.

I think it is known that no OEM will pass on to another party the knowledge required to design and build a state of the art jet engine. I think that no OEM will pass on the tech needed by India to build a modern jet engine.

Instead of seriously trying to develop its own tech over a huge time period and at huge cost (as the established OEM's do), India chose to develop its own tech at tiny cost. It must have been clear over the decades that the approach was not working and would not yield results, yet nothing was done to change things - by either abandoning the project or radically changing the way it was run. Result: no engine even close to F404 in performance.

Having spent decades on Kaveri, it would be good to see something useable come out of it. I hope that a Kaveri 1 adequate for use in Mk1A, will be developed and put into production. What I would like to see is continued refinement of the engine to further improve it.

I cannot see any new projects producing results using the current model of everything being owned and controlled by GOI. In my view the western model of governments awarding contracts to commercial OEM's to both develop and produce engines has proved vastly more successful than the Indian model.