Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Mr.Evil]

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/B6oFRepH5hI?si=1TnXILjqbsWEzl1Q

 

[Mr.Evil]

View: https://t.me/LACarchives/342

 

[Zoid Raptor]

View attachment 9246

View: https://t.me/LACarchives/342

They look decent. Just need to ensure those vests aren't empty and actually have plates in them and maybe some eye protection

 

[Mr.Evil]

They look decent. Just need to ensure those vests aren't empty and actually have plates in them and maybe some eye protection

The picture is from jan 2020 the first guy is also equipped with exfil HCBH and tonbo helmet mounted thermal sight

 

[Chandra]

Modernisation budget of Indian Military based on Union Budget 2024-25.

Examining India’s Interim Defence Budget 2024-‘25

Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman presented the interim budget for FY2024-‘25.

www.orfonline.org

 

[Chandra]

Modernisation budget of Indian Military based Union Budget 2024-25.

View attachment 9270

Examining India’s Interim Defence Budget 2024-‘25

Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman presented the interim budget for FY2024-‘25.

www.orfonline.org

Since people keep whining about the pathetic state of Para SF I was doing some personal research on the budget that would be required for the modernisation of the entire Para SF Unit.

Equipment	Price (Approx) Rs.
DT NVG	1,00,000
3M COMTAC 4	2,50,000
Thermal+Scope	2,00,000
Plate+BPJ	12,000
High Cut Ballistic Helmet	25,000
Others	13,000
Total	6,00,000×6000 = 360 Cr

(Since these equipments are not available for public purchase, determining the average market price was a bit problematic for me)​

So if we invest Rs. 6 Lakhs per SF Operative we would require a budget of around 360 Cr. to equip the strength of 6000 personnel.

Which is understandable coz Shivendra Karnwar Sir said he has personally spent 12-14 Lakhs on his own Equipments.

This puts a lot of things into perspective. As one can see the entire modernisation budget of Rashtriya Rifles is just Rs.195 Cr. which has a total strength of around 75,000.

So I don't think we can expect Indian Army would spend almost double that amount on the modernisation of just 6000 SF Operatives.

To be clear I would want them to, obviously ... But I don't expect anything to change as of now.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Since people keep whining about the pathetic state of Para SF I was doing some personal research on the budget that would be required for the modernisation of the entire Para SF Unit.

Equipment	Price (Approx) Rs.
DT NVG	1,00,000
3M COMTAC 4	2,50,000
Thermal+Scope	2,00,000
Plate+BPJ	12,000
High Cut Ballistic Helmet	25,000
Others	13,000
Total	6,00,000×6000 = 360 Cr

(Since these equipments are not available for public purchase, determining the average market price was a bit problematic for me)​

So if we invest Rs. 6 Lakhs per SF Operative we would require a budget of around 360 Cr. to equip the strength of 6000 personnel.

Which is understandable coz Shivendra Karnwar Sir said he has personally spent 12-14 Lakhs on his own Equipments.

This puts a lot of things into perspective. As one can see the entire modernisation budget of Rashtriya Rifles is just Rs.195 Cr. which has a total strength of around 75,000.

So I don't think we can expect Indian Army would spend almost double that amount on the modernisation of just 6000 SF Operatives.

To be clear I would want them to, obviously ... But I don't expect anything to change as of now.

Dual tube NVG for 1,00,000 a very generous estimate, on the cheaper side good dual NVGs go for 2-2.5lakh

 

[Mr.Evil]

Since people keep whining about the pathetic state of Para SF I was doing some personal research on the budget that would be required for the modernisation of the entire Para SF Unit.

Equipment	Price (Approx) Rs.
DT NVG	1,00,000
3M COMTAC 4	2,50,000
Thermal+Scope	2,00,000
Plate+BPJ	12,000
High Cut Ballistic Helmet	25,000
Others	13,000
Total	6,00,000×6000 = 360 Cr

(Since these equipments are not available for public purchase, determining the average market price was a bit problematic for me)​

So if we invest Rs. 6 Lakhs per SF Operative we would require a budget of around 360 Cr. to equip the strength of 6000 personnel.

Which is understandable coz Shivendra Karnwar Sir said he has personally spent 12-14 Lakhs on his own Equipments.

This puts a lot of things into perspective. As one can see the entire modernisation budget of Rashtriya Rifles is just Rs.195 Cr. which has a total strength of around 75,000.

So I don't think we can expect Indian Army would spend almost double that amount on the modernisation of just 6000 SF Operatives.

To be clear I would want them to, obviously ... But I don't expect anything to change as of now.

The number you are going after is incorrect if we talk about Special Forces Part of Para the number of personnel will be 2500- 3000 and Operatives will be 400-500, ain’t no SF strength 6k troops not possible.For Example-Delta Force has 2000 personnel and ONLY 300-400 are “OPERATORS”which are easier to equip with the best.

Col Kanwar has ALL of its gear imported hence extra import money,at his time there were slim to none Indian Tactical Equipment Companies now we have in a good amount which will also help reducing the cost.

Army’s approach is very weird they litreally don’t care about personal equipment of a troop.

If we talk about Para they will get more equipped when the Theatre Commands are operational until then Para will be living on Unit Budgets and hence slow pace of modernisation which is sad.

 

[Mr.Evil]

We are not even in the competition anymore

 

[Ayan Barat]

Equipment	Price (Approx) Rs.
DT NVG	1,00,000
3M COMTAC 4	2,50,000
Thermal+Scope	2,00,000
Plate+BPJ	12,000
High Cut Ballistic Helmet	25,000
Others	13,000
Total	6,00,000×6000 = 360 Cr

(Since these equipments are not available for public purchase, determining the average market price was a bit problematic for me)​

Umm hmm...it's bit too problematic for me too. Because that's some Looney Tunes ahh prices going on there.

A dual tube NVG is just $1k!?
But you're paying $3k for freaking headphones!?
Others...which means atleast boots, IFAK (should have atleast one Epinephrine auto-injector), navigator or a atleast a GPS watch, field knife, multitool...all in 13,000!?

My brother in Vishwakarma, a good LeatherMan multi-tool alone is going to cost you almost 15k.

Are you sure you have not accidentally checked the prices from some Airsoft store?

So I don't think we can expect Indian Army would spend

Obviously, no one expects us to match USA or even PLA.

But can't we expect to use the funds in a more sensible way? We spent more than 3,000 crore rupees for just 6 Apaches. Even if we allocate one AH-64 for 1000km of border then also we'd be having just 2 to counter Pakistan and 4 for China; for 600 freaking million USD.

What's the point of just 6 pieces of anything when in the same price we could have gone for 20+ HAL Rudras with just marginally worse performance!?
Even if we take 25 lakh per grunt (a much realistic figure) and a 6,000 strong force (which is way more) it would be 1,500 crores. We could have done that and also had funds left for 10 or so Rudras...but ya, 6 Apaches.

 

[Arad Operator]

The number you are going after is incorrect if we talk about Special Forces Part of Para the number of personnel will be 2500- 3000 and Operatives will be 400-500, ain’t no SF strength 6k troops not possible.For Example-Delta Force has 2000 personnel and ONLY 300-400 are “OPERATORS”which are easier to equip with the best.

Bhai what the hell is this 400-500 operatives out of 2500-3000 personnel of PARA thing?
First of all all the units(except 31RR) are SF now that itself is around 8K-9K personnel so IDK how you came up with "2500-3000" number.
Secondly PARA SF isn't a SOF like Delta Force where only some members are operative and the rest are support plus civilians staff, our SFs don't work like that!
As I earlier mentioned that all the units are SF so that means each and every personnel is a SF operative and this 'only 300-400 are operatives' is complete BS.

 

[Mr.Evil]

Bhai what the hell is this 400-500 operatives out of 2500-3000 personnel of PARA thing?
First of all all the units(except 31RR) are SF now that itself is around 8K-9K personnel so IDK how you came up with "2500-3000" number.
Secondly PARA SF isn't a SOF like Delta Force where only some members are operative and the rest are support plus civilians staff, our SFs don't work like that!
As I earlier mentioned that all the units are SF so that means each and every personnel is a SF operative and this 'only 300-400 are operatives' is complete BS.

Iam not saying it is it’s a hypothetical situation ofc there are more than 3k paras read what the guy I replied to is saying.
Iam talking if we make a theatre command
Also By Operatives I meant “Combat Operatives”Only

 

[Chandra]

A dual tube NVG is just $1k!?
But you're paying $3k for freaking headphones!?
Others...which means atleast boots, IFAK (should have atleast one Epinephrine auto-injector), navigator or a atleast a GPS watch, field knife, multitool...all in 13,000!?

My brother in Vishwakarma, a good LeatherMan multi-tool alone is going to cost you almost 15k.

To be honest I had a preconceived price, on how much I would be comfortable spending on each product & then went on finding stuff in the same price range.

It's clear that Rs. 6 Lakh would not be enough, maybe Rs. 9 Lakh per SF Operative is what we should be looking at.

This amount is only for Capital Expenditure. I presume Para SF already got GPS enabled watches, Battle knife, combat boots etc. so their maintenance/replacment would come under revenue expenditure & not capital expenditure.

A piece meal order of 6 Apache is just to help Indian Army draw up the GSQR for future procurement of similar platforms. RFP for 156 LCH Prachand has already been placed of which 90 will be for the Army. So quit whining.

It's good to have some exposure to top of the line products. Or else we would be in a Frog in a Well kind a situation with our procured equipments.

 

[username unkown]

To be honest I had a preconceived price, on how much I would be comfortable spending on each product & then went on finding stuff in the same price range.
View attachment 9289
It's clear that Rs. 6 Lakh would not be enough, maybe Rs. 9 Lakh per SF Operative is what we should be looking at.

This amount is only for Capital Expenditure. I presume Para SF already got GPS enabled watches, Battle knife, combat boots etc. so their maintenance/replacment would come under revenue expenditure & not capital expenditure.

A piece meal order of 6 Apache is just to help Indian Army draw up the GSQR for future procurement of similar platforms. RFP for 156 LCH Prachand has already been placed of which 90 will be for the Army. So quit whining.

It's good to have some exposure to top of the line products. Or else we would be in a Frog in a Well kind a situation with our procured equipments.

Considering everything i think we could take budget upto 9-14 lakhs

 

[Chandra]

Iam not saying it is it’s a hypothetical situation ofc there are more than 3k paras read what the guy I replied to is saying.
Iam talking if we make a theatre command
Also By Operatives I meant “Combat Operatives”Only

I think even if we want to have 300-400 SF Operatives with Night fighting capability. Atleast 10× the number would be needed to be trained in that format, so that 300-400 of them can be shortlisted. And also we would need reserves for the Units in Combat deployment & in training. So 6000 would still be a conservative number.

But if we are looking at countering the Ambush & skirmishes by introducing Night Fighting capability in regular units then we would need atleast 50k units equipped with NVG/Thermal sights etc.

 

[Ayan Barat]

The 5 lakh just for your NVG. Not to mention it's a Gen-2 i². Now you've just 4 lakh of your estimated 9 for remaining everything.

I presume Para SF already got GPS enabled watches, Battle knife, combat boots etc.

And still Col. Shivendra Kanwar had to procure even the carabiners by himself.

Presumption and reality is bit different; anyone can presume that we being the fourth biggest Navy in the world would have a significant mine warfare capability. But what's the reality?

A piece meal order of 6 Apache is just to help Indian Army draw up the GSQR for future procurement of similar platforms.

Someone needs $0.6 billion just for drafting a GSQR when the air-force of that same country is already flying AH-64s...

It's good to have some exposure to top of the line products. Or else we would be in a Frog in a Well kind a situation with our procured equipments.

No, if you're competent enough then you don't. What top of the line exposure DRDO had when they came up with an anti-satellite missile!?

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/armasentactical/status/1834434327809335419

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/IaSouthern/status/1834603492788343043/photo/1

 

[Tactical Doge]

Secondly PARA SF isn't a SOF like Delta Force where only some members are operative and the rest are support plus civilians staff, our SFs don't work like that!

Not making a sweeping generalization, but not from what I've heard!!!!

Father One of my frens is a retired JCO in a para unit, apparently he's never been in combat
He even has a funny story relating to procurement of washing machines and stuff for the unit, probably logistics or inventory staff

 

[Chandra]

View attachment 9303
The 5 lakh just for your NVG. Not to mention it's a Gen-2 i². Now you've just 4 lakh of your estimated 9 for remaining everything.

Well now you have figured out exactly what's the reason behind the pathetic state of Indian infantry equipments.

It is the exponential rise in expenditure for the Military with each upgrades that doesn't necessarily guarantees proportional increase in success rate for their operations.

For a Gov. that has allocated 195 Cr. for RR with a force strength of 75K. Some delusional people expect upwards of 400 Cr. to be allocated for Paras with a force strength of only 6K.

Someone needs $0.6 billion just for drafting a GSQR when the air-force of that same country is already flying AH-64s...

Do you even have any idea how the Government works ? Just because your under the same Gov. Doesn't mean you will get full access to all the assets of every other department under GoI.

Even if you do, there would be security protocols with supervision of the Air Force that may not allow you to carry out the full spectrum of your evaluation trials.

Integrated Theatre Command isn't a reality. And cutting corners on Army's air assets is not the answer. As the SF & AH-64 doesn't fill the same roles.

No, if you're competent enough then you don't. What top of the line exposure DRDO had when they came up with an anti-satellite missile!?

Isn't it weird that the tech DRDO is most competent in, are the ones that are denied to India ?

The fact is the economic state of this Country or the Budget of the Military barely figure into the conversation when people keep whining about the poor equipments. Coz It makes their rudali Null & Void.

Your not just fighting insurgents in Kashmir your also fighting in the North East well as the Central Indian forests. Your funds are already spread thin across multiple domains.

People don't even realise, even equipping 300-400 odd SF Operatives in line with the Navy Seals or Delta Force cost us more than double that of equipping an entire Regiment, as of now.