Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Ayan Barat]

1. Electronic Warfare; cost efficient and can the whole swarm at once but can be easily countered.
2. Air-Burst Autocannon; second most cost efficient but are huge with guns, ammo, radars and EO.
3. Directed Energy Weapon; theoretically most cost efficient and effective but currently upfront cost is huge given it's yet to fully mature.
4. Anti-UAV APS; similar to existing Active Protection System but modified for anti-UAV role. Decently cost efficient with the ability to engage swarm attack at once but it's still in its infancy.

Other than these four, whatever you'll hear as Anti-UAV solution would be more or less a gimmick or a very elaborate scheme to enjoy VC money. Everything from shotgun to trained eagles to net cannon to net cannon throwing UAV to four INSAS mounted on a tripod...everything.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

1. Electronic Warfare; cost efficient and can the whole swarm at once but can be easily countered.
2. Air-Burst Autocannon; second most cost efficient but are huge with guns, ammo, radars and EO.
3. Directed Energy Weapon; theoretically most cost efficient and effective but currently upfront cost is huge given it's yet to fully mature.
4. Anti-UAV APS; similar to existing Active Protection System but modified for anti-UAV role. Decently cost efficient with the ability to engage swarm attack at once but it's still in its infancy.

Other than these four, whatever you'll hear as Anti-UAV solution would be more or less a gimmick or a very elaborate scheme to enjoy VC money. Everything from shotgun to trained eagles to net cannon to net cannon throwing UAV to four INSAS mounted on a tripod...everything.

Why the hate for shotguns lol

Its the only light man portble anti drone hard kill option, the ones you quoted need super high upfront investment and are crew served (except maybe the simplest of ew systems).

 

[Mr.Evil]

First BodyCam footage from an OP?

View: https://t.me/goreunit/5503

 

[Unknowncommando]

Naam namak nishan , something something something ... Shut up you bloody civilian, something something something... Agniveer bad something something something....
We are better than bisleri drinkers, something something something ( yet we train with their lower tier units lol) ....
Equipment is for pussies, we win by jazba e jung , himmat and haunsla something something something...
( We can't even issue each soldier of the fighting arm , with a simple nvg .,yet we are forever ready something something something something)

.

.

One More - Abhi Bloody Chap bolke sab civilians ko chup kara dunga something something

 

[Unknowncommando]

View attachment 7055
View attachment 7056
?

SMPP BPJ on the left & on the right that sad one on which they wear those tactical vests with extra mag pouches and no inserts.

That box is a container for some kind of UAV.

 

[Unknowncommando]

In daytime??

ARJUN-H thermal sight. Life saving during the day too when punks hide behind the thick bushes. Spots the heat anyway.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Why the hate for shotguns lol

The FPV needs to be first detected, they can be camouflaged for harder detection, then initially acquired, aimed for lead, then keep shooting it until it's detonated all while it dives at a speed of atleast 100km/hr

In trap shooting the bright red pigeons are made up of fragile clay, fly in a predicted manner, the shooter knowns where to aim initially to acquire them, flies at a speed of 80km/hr...how many medals do we have?

Perhaps this will give some idea on how easy it's to assume that a shotgun would easily take down a FPV and actually doing it. Whatever we're seeing is just survivorship bias...we are not considering the instances in which shotguns have failed to intercept.

This is the theoretical spread of perhaps the best shotgun, shooter and round.

See how sparse the spread is at mere 50m. A diving FPV would be covering 50m in just 1.5sec.
But even if assume you manage to make a hit, this is what you'd be hitting it with.

These things are so low powered that once we used to shoot people at close ranges with these as a less lethal option.

But even in this case, no matter how much damage you deal to vital components like controller or motor...the FPV would continue flying towards you.

But if we really wanna go with Ukr-Rus videos then there are videos of people downing FPVs with sticks, rocks, jars...

 

[ezsasa]

1. Electronic Warfare; cost efficient and can the whole swarm at once but can be easily countered.
2. Air-Burst Autocannon; second most cost efficient but are huge with guns, ammo, radars and EO.
3. Directed Energy Weapon; theoretically most cost efficient and effective but currently upfront cost is huge given it's yet to fully mature.
4. Anti-UAV APS; similar to existing Active Protection System but modified for anti-UAV role. Decently cost efficient with the ability to engage swarm attack at once but it's still in its infancy.

Other than these four, whatever you'll hear as Anti-UAV solution would be more or less a gimmick or a very elaborate scheme to enjoy VC money. Everything from shotgun to trained eagles to net cannon to net cannon throwing UAV to four INSAS mounted on a tripod...everything.

some insights into the direction which the forces are thinking on this.. ​

at some point in this video, IA's speaker says at soft kill will be ineffective, hard kill is the way to go.
=====

Air & Missile Defence 24 Seminar Session 4 - RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT AND FUTURE ROAD MAP​

View: https://youtu.be/nK8D8sLeIjI

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

The FPV needs to be first detected, they can be camouflaged for harder detection, then initially acquired, aimed for lead, then keep shooting it until it's detonated all while it dives at a speed of atleast 100km/hr

In trap shooting the bright red pigeons are made up of fragile clay, fly in a predicted manner, the shooter knowns where to aim initially to acquire them, flies at a speed of 80km/hr...how many medals do we have?

Perhaps this will give some idea on how easy it's to assume that a shotgun would easily take down a FPV and actually doing it. Whatever we're seeing is just survivorship bias...we are not considering the instances in which shotguns have failed to intercept.

This is the theoretical spread of perhaps the best shotgun, shooter and round.
View attachment 7961
See how sparse the spread is at mere 50m. A diving FPV would be covering 50m in just 1.5sec.
But even if assume you manage to make a hit, this is what you'd be hitting it with.
View attachment 7962
These things are so low powered that once we used to shoot people at close ranges with these as a less lethal option.

But even in this case, no matter how much damage you deal to vital components like controller or motor...the FPV would continue flying towards you.

But if we really wanna go with Ukr-Rus videos then there are videos of people downing FPVs with sticks, rocks, jars...

This is not representative at all.

Shotgun shells come in many types, and many spreads. Just listing birdshot is a weird way to discredit the gun.

Additionally, drones are not always that fast, especially the top-drop kind used mostly against infantry. Most hits by drones are much less than 100km/hr, more like 30-40 (10m/s) on the fast end and basically still for the drop kind. You are right that if they are not detected they cant be shot, but if you see vids from ukraine, troops often realise drones are there either before the drone drops or on the first munition drop.

Coming to the shell, using birdshot will severly limit the range. Something like #1 buck will do a better job, with decent spread and decent impact. Multiple shots will very likely hit the drone atleast once, and then the drone is toast.

Lastly, it is not that a shotgun doesnt have drawbacks. But you need to provide a better alternative to shotguns - I cant think of any point defence weapon under 4kg that costs under 800-900$ and is as effective as a shotgun.

 

[VictorDelta4]

Multiple shots will very likely hit the drone atleast once, and then the drone is toast.

Here's a POV video of a similar case!

View: https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1828909618552004813

 

[Mr.Evil]

So we actually don’t have NVGs wow

View: https://x.com/force82323/status/1829165091184689358

View: https://x.com/force82323/status/1829105656265068780

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indian-armys-rifle-crisis-is-a-mess-of-its-own-making

I hope what author wrote about QR is not right, otherwise, what the hell? is the services professionalism?
Not talking to soldier and going through companies brochures to frame requirements!

 

[samsaptaka]

Ghatak Platoons (semi-SF, raised to spearhead an attack) of Western Command (one of the most serious, supposed to face the brunt of a 2-front attack) doing Special Heliborne Operations (read again, Special Heliborne Operations) deep into enemy territory.

Circa 2024
View attachment 7600

Spoiler: Archive

View: https://x.com/westerncomd_IA/status/1827380717489119522?s=19

perhaps outdated even by WWII standard.... really why are gernails not being sacked ?

 

[Tier 1 Patriot]

Middle guy Boots helmet

 

[Tier 1 Patriot]

View: https://youtu.be/BelQbRdaUIA?si=jTWETebqdu2z1IIk

 

[Ayan Barat]

View attachment 8141
Middle guy Boots helmet

Two riflemen can't exchange ammo because 5.56x45mm vs 7.62x39mm
Two grenadiers can't exchange ammo because 40mm CL vs 40x46mm

...and here you're are getting bothered about helmets.

 

[Gutenmorgen]

Two riflemen can't exchange ammo because 5.56x45mm vs 7.62x39mm
Two grenadiers can't exchange ammo because 40mm CL vs 40x46mm

...and here you're are getting bothered about helmets.

5.56 situation will be solved with adoption of 7.62 AK-203. Is something similar in the pipeline for grenades?

 

[Tier 1 Patriot]

Two riflemen can't exchange ammo because 5.56x45mm vs 7.62x39mm
Two grenadiers can't exchange ammo because 40mm CL vs 40x46mm

...and here you're are getting bothered about helmets.

I know there is a lot things you can point out Safety should be no.1 priority

 

[Ayan Barat]

5.56 situation will be solved with adoption of 7.62 AK-203. Is something similar in the pipeline for grenades?

• All AGLs - 30x29mm
• All UBGLs for Kalashnikovs - 40mm CL
• Remaining UBGLs - 40x46mm
• MGL - 40x46mm

Unless and until we decide what's going to be the calibre for some 1 lakh UBGLs to go with the 6.5 lakh AK-203s and then few thousands MGL if AGS-30s are replaced...it will continue to remain a mess.

As for your point of 7.62x39mm getting replaced by 5.56x45mm being a solution, let me tell you something. These 6.5 lakh AKs would get adopted and would show excellent results in COIN ops; remember the first place we're seeing these are in J&K encounters. But then a LSCO would happen and suddenly we'd be looking for either an intermidate cartridge or full power round. Just like now units issued with INSAS carry AKs in encounters, we'd be using more and more M4s/SIGs in units with AK-203s. A new RFI would get released for 7.62x39mm, then RFP, tender...

Mark my words

 

[Mr.Evil]

What PC is this