Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

Lets hope the jet vendor chosen has a best selling model which will be in production 15 years in the future also
Other wise with a measly requirement of 3 planes this will endup like the Netra and it's now out of production Embraer base airframe

I think limiting it to 3 platforms is good enough, if we have plans to moving these systems to a stealth platform, preferably flying wing and unmanned in future, which I'm doubtful of.

 

[shade2]

That is true for what they hawk to the Pakis from what we have seen in Op Sindoor and for good reason.
Paki first and foremost is the US's bitch, if the Chongs give the actual good shit or even standard export quality cut down maal it is still a risk, Pakis will let US exfarts ((( have a look ))) at Chinese platforms.

As for what the Chinese themselves use it shouldn't be underestimated, they are building up to take on the Amerisharts over Taiwan and win, if you are shitting yourselves over 5th gen Wunderwaffe better do it over their 600 J-20s and 800 J-35A in the future, not over some measly 40 planes that will be so cut down, perhaps even Junk Fighter 17 would be a better fighter jet

If the Chongs saw us as that big of a threat, and Paki as that loyal of an ally, rest assured it wouldn't be like 26 J-10s but 200 instead, and not 40 J-35s but 100 instead, they have the industrial capacity and with their economy and tax base such Soviet style daan-dharam wouldn't hurt them, so before shivering ask yourself why don't they do this

Oh another point, Chong will allow Paki to use the J-35 even for offensive ops,
By Allow i mean the PAF doesn't need permission of China.

Anyone hawking for F-35 really think the US will allow us to use it for Op Sindoor style attacks or even in "self-defence" if the Pakis ever grow the Aands necessary to get their Forces to attack us?

 

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1931970011129676142?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1931970011129676142%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1931981534577201424



VSHORAD test

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1931944204470464962

 

[snakeeyes07]

Kinda wrong.
US is creating RQ-180 flying wing stealth drone for ISR, SAR,ELNIT,SIGNIT, relay node function(basicallywhat our istar will do, they will not be just istar, but like any other modern systems Multi-spectrum jets) , which according to some estimates is the size of its latest b21 bomber.
US is also doing pod based approach fitting its RQ-4 global hawk and mq-9 reaper drone with pod for different modes like maritime surveillance( we do to with mq9 we bought), and SAR and ISR payload too.

US still continues to use E11a( relay node and battlefield management, US is planning to order more) and rc-135w( Signit, ELnit).


So the so called "ISTAR" platform we are buying, ISTAR will just be one of its function( which US plans to fulfill using stealth rq-180 drone), and just like US, we will also be using drones( mq-9 we aere buying) and our sats to also do ground based SAR ISR.
P8 posiden can also somewhat do SAR ISR role.

The "ISTAR" platforms we are buying will also be signit, ELNIT, airborne command and control/battlefield management, relay node( US uses e-135w and e11a for all these except SAR ISR)

So 15-16 of these, definitely a good idea to buy them.

Yes, MQ-9 can perform ISR role and much more if upgraded to SkyGuardian and SeaGuardian. In future, can even do AEW&C role for IAF and INS (carrier based).

 

[shade2]

I think limiting it to 3 platforms is good enough, if we have plans to moving these systems to a stealth platform, preferably flying wing and unmanned in future, which I'm doubtful of.

I think it will take a 10 year period to get it integrated, tested, certified and inducted
By the end of this period we will have a measly 3 of them in the IAF
If we'd place an order for 6 or 9 we'd get that amount instead.

MoD babooze behave like this is bhooka, nanga gareeb naan-vilent India of the 1960s, with such silly piecemeal purchases

 

[redpanda]

Japanese and Krauts i'm sure are in the Gas Turbine supplier ecosystem and can surely roll their own if unshackled from Uncle Sam's servitude.
They have existing JVs for the same with their WW2 victors.

However most of the stuff going into Japanese equipment is only by their domestic dhandhos.
They build some jet engines by IHI/Kawasaki/Mitsubishi but most are for comedy purposes like Trainers, and ofc they cannot sell these engines because muh naan-wairento konsutitoosan desu.

Truly sad state of affairs especially for marine gas turbines, atleast for jet engines the froggies are still in the game

They changed it during Shinzo Abe's time. Now they can sell it but under some rather weird conditions.

 

[randombully]

I think it will take a 10 year period to get it integrated, tested, certified and inducted
By the end of this period we will have a measly 3 of them in the IAF
If we'd place an order for 6 or 9 we'd get that amount instead.

MoD babooze behave like this is bhooka, nanga gareeb naan-vilent India of the 1960s, with such silly piecemeal purchases

Na, systems are ready.
If we go for integration than shouldn't take more than 5 years for all three to be delivered.
But its based on technical time needed to modify the platform, integrate systems and flight test till certification combined with our normal beaurocratic processes.

Though "procurement delays" can definitely happen.

 

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1931971350702240040

 

[INVADER]

Ordering 72 Super Su 30 mki will be better move than ordering su57 or f35



My upgrades for super sukhoi
-> RAM paints
-> Virupaksha GaN Radar
-> Enclosed Weapons Pod ( DRDO should start work on it )
-> Astra Mk3 , NG-CCM , Brahm0s-Ng & Rudram ARM's only
-> Composite air frame
-> Kaverified Al31 Engine
-> EOTS

It should be able to carry 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod
12 × Astra Mk3 in 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod



Enclosed Weapons Pod on Fa18





-------------------

F35 Case:
Minor problem in f35 can make them grounded till we throw good money to please muricans & huge ceasefire threats from white pigs so we won't procure f35....

------------------

Su57 Case:
Let's say we decided to buy su57 in 2026

Preparing Zigs , Manufacturing equipment & FAL will take 2029

First aircraft rollout in 2030

Proper training , developing tactics & crew getting used to it takes ~3 years

For order of ~100 Jets production rate would be <10 jets per year

So by 2035 we will have less than 40 jets

--------------------------

AMCA Case:

CCS in 2024
5 Prototypes by HAL
Rollout in 2027
First flight in 2028
Requirement 200+ Jets ( By HAL & PVT Sector )

Let's take start of production 2033 (5 Years of testing & training from 2028 First flight)
For 200+ Jets "Production rate would be ~30 Jets per year"

So by 2035 we would have ~60 AMCA's which looks


200+ AMCA

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1765746078123692273

 

[shade2]

Ordering 72 Super Su 30 mki will be better move than ordering su57 or f35


View attachment 38793
My upgrades for super sukhoi
-> RAM paints
-> Virupaksha GaN Radar
-> Enclosed Weapons Pod ( DRDO should start work on it )
-> Astra Mk3 , NG-CCM , Brahm0s-Ng & Rudram ARM's only
-> Composite air frame
-> Kaverified Al31 Engine
-> EOTS

It should be able to carry 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod
12 × Astra Mk3 in 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod

View attachment 38795

Enclosed Weapons Pod on Fa18
View attachment 38796

View attachment 38797


-------------------

F35 Case:
Minor problem in f35 can make them grounded till we throw good money to please muricans & huge ceasefire threats from white pigs so we won't procure f35....

------------------

Su57 Case:
Let's say we decided to buy su57 in 2026

Preparing Zigs , Manufacturing equipment & FAL will take 2029

First aircraft rollout in 2030

Proper training , developing tactics & crew getting used to it takes ~3 years

For order of ~100 Jets production rate would be <10 jets per year

So by 2035 we will have less than 40 jets

--------------------------

AMCA Case:

CCS in 2024
5 Prototypes by HAL
Rollout in 2027
First flight in 2028
Requirement 200+ Jets ( By HAL & PVT Sector )

Let's take start of production 2033 (5 Years of testing & training from 2028 First flight)
For 200+ Jets "Production rate would be ~30 Jets per year"

So by 2035 we would have ~60 AMCA's which looks


200+ AMCA

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1765746078123692273

They should have fast tracked the Super Sukhoi project and with that purchased additional 72( 4 sqdrns ) Su30s onlee.
Super Sukhoi project should have been a deshi J-16 with composite airframe and whatever RAM paint they could manage as you have pointed out.

Su30 is backbone of the IAF but they haven't bothered to do any major upgrades since induction in the 2000s

MoD babooze also playing their part of pass the file, being chindi with funding for DRDO projects relating to this etc

 

[samsaptaka]

Paki first and foremost is the US's bitch, if the Chongs give the actual good shit or even standard export quality cut down maal it is still a risk, Pakis will let US exfarts ((( have a look ))) at Chinese platforms.

Doesn't the reverse also hold true ? Porks allowing chings to have a close look at SUPER DUPER F16 and AAMRAM.? I mean their J10 or J7 (forgot which one) does look like an F16 though Jooz provided them their canceled KFIR plans is what I heard . Would be interesting to know if and how Unkil is preventing porks from allowing chings to spy on Amreekan stuff

 

[randombully]

Doesn't the reverse also hold true ? Porks allowing chings to have a close look at SUPER DUPER F16 and AAMRAM.? I mean their J10 or J7 (forgot which one) does look like an F16 though Jooz provided them their canceled KFIR plans is what I heard . Would be interesting to know if and how Unkil is preventing porks from allowing chings to spy on Amreekan stuff

Chink already long suprassed the old amreekan stuff pigs have.

 

[Doreamon]

Ordering 72 Super Su 30 mki will be better move than ordering su57 or f35


View attachment 38793
My upgrades for super sukhoi
-> RAM paints
-> Virupaksha GaN Radar
-> Enclosed Weapons Pod ( DRDO should start work on it )
-> Astra Mk3 , NG-CCM , Brahm0s-Ng & Rudram ARM's only
-> Composite air frame
-> Kaverified Al31 Engine
-> EOTS

It should be able to carry 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod
12 × Astra Mk3 in 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod

View attachment 38795

Enclosed Weapons Pod on Fa18
View attachment 38796

View attachment 38797


-------------------

F35 Case:
Minor problem in f35 can make them grounded till we throw good money to please muricans & huge ceasefire threats from white pigs so we won't procure f35....

------------------

Su57 Case:
Let's say we decided to buy su57 in 2026

Preparing Zigs , Manufacturing equipment & FAL will take 2029

First aircraft rollout in 2030

Proper training , developing tactics & crew getting used to it takes ~3 years

For order of ~100 Jets production rate would be <10 jets per year

So by 2035 we will have less than 40 jets

--------------------------

AMCA Case:

CCS in 2024
5 Prototypes by HAL
Rollout in 2027
First flight in 2028
Requirement 200+ Jets ( By HAL & PVT Sector )

Let's take start of production 2033 (5 Years of testing & training from 2028 First flight)
For 200+ Jets "Production rate would be ~30 Jets per year"

So by 2035 we would have ~60 AMCA's which looks


200+ AMCA

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1765746078123692273

Lol no amount of ram paint or enclosed weapon area will make su30 any stealthy . Its nt made for stealth . It's a heavy class air superiority fighter jet . However I am totally in favour of bringing more su30 frames under current upgrade plans . The upgrades ll make it shine again till next 10/15 years .

 

[Noob_Saibot]

Ordering 72 Super Su 30 mki will be better move than ordering su57 or f35


View attachment 38793
My upgrades for super sukhoi
-> RAM paints
-> Virupaksha GaN Radar
-> Enclosed Weapons Pod ( DRDO should start work on it )
-> Astra Mk3 , NG-CCM , Brahm0s-Ng & Rudram ARM's only
-> Composite air frame
-> Kaverified Al31 Engine
-> EOTS

It should be able to carry 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod
12 × Astra Mk3 in 3 x Enclosed Weapons Pod

View attachment 38795

Enclosed Weapons Pod on Fa18
View attachment 38796

View attachment 38797


-------------------

F35 Case:
Minor problem in f35 can make them grounded till we throw good money to please muricans & huge ceasefire threats from white pigs so we won't procure f35....

------------------

Su57 Case:
Let's say we decided to buy su57 in 2026

Preparing Zigs , Manufacturing equipment & FAL will take 2029

First aircraft rollout in 2030

Proper training , developing tactics & crew getting used to it takes ~3 years

For order of ~100 Jets production rate would be <10 jets per year

So by 2035 we will have less than 40 jets

--------------------------

AMCA Case:

CCS in 2024
5 Prototypes by HAL
Rollout in 2027
First flight in 2028
Requirement 200+ Jets ( By HAL & PVT Sector )

Let's take start of production 2033 (5 Years of testing & training from 2028 First flight)
For 200+ Jets "Production rate would be ~30 Jets per year"

So by 2035 we would have ~60 AMCA's which looks


200+ AMCA

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1765746078123692273

There is no universe where we will have 60 plus AMCAs by 2035.

You must be a very optimistic person, given our inglorious track record with the Tejas.

I will be happy if we have a few squadrons flying by 2040.

We will need stop gap solutions like densely layered ADs, a f*** ton of cruise and ballistic missile platforms, drones, vastly increased no of 4th gen aircraft and stealth busting tech if we don't intend to procure any 5th gen platforms.

 

[username unkown]

With emerging long range awacs killer missile is interconnected drone based Awacs (divine eagle uav) seems like good idea
Group of interconnected drone working together netra in background working as mothership and control station and battle management or ground based control station alongside super sukhoi as mini awacs
If one awacs is shot down its huge loss
But even if few drone are shot down we still have other uav working together alongside mini awacs su30

 

[sunnyv]

Gd morning.

Continuing from my last post. The more you dig the worst it goes it seems apparently.

ALIS is a nightmare it seems. Israel is the only country managing without ALIS connection on daily basis for F35s.

There is only one global ALIS server, called the Autonomic Logistics Operating Unit (ALOU), where spare parts are ordered and reliability trends are analyzed. Each partner nation has its own server, called the Central Point of Entry (CPE), which stores sovereign data and transmits that information to the ALOU [Wow malware spying, US would know if we were to fly along Karakoram or in Lhasa via Kameng sector in Arunachal]
Individual squadrons operate locally with a server called the Standard Operating Unit (SOU), which communicates with that nation's CPE. Squadrons can operate independently and store data for about 30 days without connecting to the partner nation's CPE, Scott said. Then, when a connection is re-established, the SOU uploads the stored data to the CPE.



Soverign Data Leak f35
Spending F35




One more nightmare
F22 & F35 don't talk to each other

[That communication, though, is largely limited to radio calls. The F-22 can’t transmit the most sensitive data it collects to any aircraft besides other F-22s. While it can receive Link 16 data from other aircraft, it can’t pass along its “God’s-eye view” to other players in the force. Even the other fifth generation fighter, the F-35, can’t communicate with the F-22 except at the voice level.

The situation wasn’t brought about by negligence. In developing the F-22—and later, the F-35—designers needed to preserve the jets’ stealth against rapidly evolving adversaries. Standard radio emissions would reveal their locations, which meant devising ways the low-observable fighters could talk to each other without giving away their position. Both jets have what are called “low probability of detection/interecept” communications gear to stay hidden. The F-35’s system—because it was developed 10 years after the F-22’s—takes a different approach.

As a result, Air Force combat communications can become a kind of Tower of Babel. While Raptors can receive over the Link 16 network—the standard across US and NATO aircraft—it can’t transmit over the system. Instead, it uses the F-22-only Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL). F-35s can transmit on Link 16 to fourth gen jets and talk among themselves using the stealthy Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), a capability the Air Force had planned to install on the F-22 but canceled because of cost about five years ago.]

Northrop Grumman has pitched a different way to help F-22s and F-35s securely talk in flight, by adding another aircraft—Northrop suggests its own RQ-4 Global Hawk—to fly in the area with its “Freedom 550” radio. This “production-ready … software-defined” radio is built using avionics Northrop developed for both the F-35 and F-22. That means the system can translate among IFDL, MADL, and Link 16. Loll

One more Gem
MADL COST
MADL allows a lot. More information can be shared than via other methods and it’s hard to jam. The downside is that it’s really just for inter-F-35 communications. The B-2 Spirit bomber is MADL-compatible, and there were plans to upgrade the F-22 Raptor, but they were scrapped. There has been talk of other fighter upgrades to the new network, but it’s expensive and cumbersome.

And to fly F35 apparently Air Force needs to setup dedicated server that is in communication with Home IACCS C2 node and a server in United states using MADL where data is first uploaded.
F35 Share
[During the exercise, Dutch F-35s operating in an Anti-Access Area Denial (A2AD) environment detected and identified multiple simulated ground targets. Utilizing the Multifunction Advanced Datalink (MADL), the targeting data was transmitted through Skunk Works’ Open Systems Gateway (OSG) into Keystone, the Dutch C2 environment. Keystone then relayed the information to a rocket artillery platform, which engaged and neutralized the target, completing the kill chain within minute]

Imagine Babu in MOD eating Gutka is told all this

 

[randombully]

Lol no amount of ram paint or enclosed weapon area will make su30 any stealthy . Its nt made for stealth . It's a heavy class air superiority fighter jet . However I am totally in favour of bringing more su30 frames under current upgrade plans . The upgrades ll make it shine again till next 10/15 years .

We can bring it's clean rcs under <2m2 for most of frontal arc, which will provide significant benifits.

A rafale loaded with missiles and drop tanks has rcs >2m2( oh yeah rafale doesn't have much low rcs geometric features unlike how the French hype it up, but ram is there).

Su30 wouldn't need drop tanks.

A jet loaded with missiles with similar rcs as loaded rafales( with missiles and drop tanks), but highly powerful avionics.

Supersukhoi would surpass rafale as a bvr fighter, if actual work on rcs reduction is done as part of super sukhoi deal.

 

[snakeeyes07]

We can bring it's clean rcs under <2m2 for most of frontal arc, which will provide significant benifits.

A rafale loaded with missiles and drop tanks has rcs >2m2( oh yeah rafale doesn't have much low rcs geometric features unlike how the French hype it up, but ram is there).

Su30 wouldn't need drop tanks.

A jet loaded with missiles with similar rcs as loaded rafales( with missiles and drop tanks), but highly powerful avionics.

Supersukhoi would surpass rafale as a bvr fighter, if actual work on rcs reduction is done as part of super sukhoi deal.

We have developed a X-band specific RAM paint which can be applied onto SU30MKI. It is designed to effective against fighter FCR (X-band) and will have very limited utility against AEW&CS (S & L band).

Not sure about it's effectiveness against Ku band (PL15 seeker), I think it won't be significant.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Gd morning.

Continuing from my last post. The more you dig the worst it goes it seems apparently.

ALIS is a nightmare it seems. Israel is the only country managing without ALIS connection on daily basis for F35s.
View attachment 38817
There is only one global ALIS server, called the Autonomic Logistics Operating Unit (ALOU), where spare parts are ordered and reliability trends are analyzed. Each partner nation has its own server, called the Central Point of Entry (CPE), which stores sovereign data and transmits that information to the ALOU [Wow malware spying, US would know if we were to fly along Karakoram or in Lhasa via Kameng sector in Arunachal]
Individual squadrons operate locally with a server called the Standard Operating Unit (SOU), which communicates with that nation's CPE. Squadrons can operate independently and store data for about 30 days without connecting to the partner nation's CPE, Scott said. Then, when a connection is re-established, the SOU uploads the stored data to the CPE.

View attachment 38822

Soverign Data Leak f35
Spending F35
View attachment 38825



One more nightmare
F22 & F35 don't talk to each other

[That communication, though, is largely limited to radio calls. The F-22 can’t transmit the most sensitive data it collects to any aircraft besides other F-22s. While it can receive Link 16 data from other aircraft, it can’t pass along its “God’s-eye view” to other players in the force. Even the other fifth generation fighter, the F-35, can’t communicate with the F-22 except at the voice level.

The situation wasn’t brought about by negligence. In developing the F-22—and later, the F-35—designers needed to preserve the jets’ stealth against rapidly evolving adversaries. Standard radio emissions would reveal their locations, which meant devising ways the low-observable fighters could talk to each other without giving away their position. Both jets have what are called “low probability of detection/interecept” communications gear to stay hidden. The F-35’s system—because it was developed 10 years after the F-22’s—takes a different approach.

As a result, Air Force combat communications can become a kind of Tower of Babel. While Raptors can receive over the Link 16 network—the standard across US and NATO aircraft—it can’t transmit over the system. Instead, it uses the F-22-only Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL). F-35s can transmit on Link 16 to fourth gen jets and talk among themselves using the stealthy Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), a capability the Air Force had planned to install on the F-22 but canceled because of cost about five years ago.]

Northrop Grumman has pitched a different way to help F-22s and F-35s securely talk in flight, by adding another aircraft—Northrop suggests its own RQ-4 Global Hawk—to fly in the area with its “Freedom 550” radio. This “production-ready … software-defined” radio is built using avionics Northrop developed for both the F-35 and F-22. That means the system can translate among IFDL, MADL, and Link 16. Loll

One more Gem
MADL COST
MADL allows a lot. More information can be shared than via other methods and it’s hard to jam. The downside is that it’s really just for inter-F-35 communications. The B-2 Spirit bomber is MADL-compatible, and there were plans to upgrade the F-22 Raptor, but they were scrapped. There has been talk of other fighter upgrades to the new network, but it’s expensive and cumbersome.

And to fly F35 apparently Air Force needs to setup dedicated server that is in communication with Home IACCS C2 node and a server in United states using MADL where data is first uploaded.
F35 Share
[During the exercise, Dutch F-35s operating in an Anti-Access Area Denial (A2AD) environment detected and identified multiple simulated ground targets. Utilizing the Multifunction Advanced Datalink (MADL), the targeting data was transmitted through Skunk Works’ Open Systems Gateway (OSG) into Keystone, the Dutch C2 environment. Keystone then relayed the information to a rocket artillery platform, which engaged and neutralized the target, completing the kill chain within minute]

Imagine Babu in MOD eating Gutka is told all this

F35 is not an option then for IAF. Can Israeli assistance be taken to reduce these bottlenecks and concerns? Is it even technically feasible.

AMCA becomes even more critical.

 

[sunnyv]

F35 is not an option then for IAF. Can Israeli assistance be taken to reduce these bottlenecks and concerns? Is it even technically feasible.

AMCA becomes even more critical.

No even Israel has developed a specific firewall based Sq level cloud server which then transmits data to central US servers. You require plugging in the F35 to central servers for Maintenance, even JDAM/AMRAAM require patches to work. Best one can do is spend dollars to prevent classified Mission data on uploading to Central server{even that is doubtful}
Damn for theoretical purpose imagine the headache for S400/BARAK8/Pinaka/Kolkata Class destroyer to fire from data of F35 it will require billions of Dollars to set up Sensors fused Networked Battlefield management system. Will require years of work/AI and computing to have a such system running.