Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

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IAF chief drops truth bombs, says his force in dire need of 35-40 aircraft/year, far behind in tech

Speaking at an event, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh also made a strong pitch for collaborative project between a foreign firm & Indian pvt player to produce fighter aircraft in India.
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Speaking at a seminar hosted by the Chanakya Forum, ACM Singh emphasised that India must explore collaborative projects between foreign firms and Indian private players to produce fighter aircraft domestically, supplementing the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s (HAL) production of the Tejas Mk-1A.
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>Dassault order backlog is full apart from that no domestic partner
>EuroFighter no domestic partner
>Gripen no domestic partner
>No chance of Ruskals
>We already have Ruskal version of F-15

Meanwhile Tata-LM already produce F-16 wings in country and i'm sure they can scale up production for 114 fighters, also this will lead to "a possible path to F-35" too.

I can see HF-24 Marut from Heaven saying "Come beta, join me" to Tejas 🥹
 
shade2 said:
theprint.in

IAF chief drops truth bombs, says his force in dire need of 35-40 aircraft/year, far behind in tech

Speaking at an event, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh also made a strong pitch for collaborative project between a foreign firm & Indian pvt player to produce fighter aircraft in India.
theprint.in theprint.in



>Dassault order backlog is full apart from that no domestic partner
>EuroFighter no domestic partner
>Gripen no domestic partner
>No chance of Ruskals
>We already have Ruskal version of F-15

Meanwhile Tata-LM already produce F-16 wings in country and i'm sure they can scale up production for 114 fighters, also this will lead to "a possible path to F-35" too.

I can see HF-24 Marut from Heaven saying "Come beta, join me" to Tejas 🥹
Click to expand...
You're not reading the situation right.

He's pitching for MRFA to be mfgd in India with a Pvt Sector player in collaboration with a Foreign OEM except it's a bit late in the day for that coz GoI believes in getting the balance 36 nos Rafales & closing the file on the entire MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA episode whereas the IAF is clinging on to the old story where Dassault would partner a local Pvt Sector player ( Anilbhai in this instance) & set up a FAL followed by a mfg line which would eventually emerge as a rival HAL.

This was the original plan of the GoI / MoD / IAF which got derailed. This has nothing to do with desi programs to the extent it won't impact them.

A lot of water has flown in the Yamuna since then. LCA Mk-2 when it comes will handle a significant amount of tasks which are currently the remit of the Jaguars, MiG-29 & the Mirage 2000 & which the MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA was supposed to replace.

Add to that the AMCA Mk-1 which will come on the heels of the LCA Mk-2 . MoD & GoI are convinced we don't need an MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA tender except procuring the Rafales be they 36 nos or 54 nos & that's that . It seems the IAF has yet to receive the memo.

But it's disturbing to see the prolonged campaign against HAL that too by someone of the stature of the ACM of the IAF. At some point it should or must result in retaliation by HAL. There's a limit to muck raking & the ACM is taking this too far. After all in this saga none of the players are clean be it HAL or ADA / DRDO or IAF & least of all MoD / GoI who're the biggest culprits IMHO.
 
As of today:

* PAF fields more number of fighter jets than IAF's Western, South-Western & Central air commands combined.

* The PAF has more fighter pilots in absolute numbers than these 3 commands combined. & overall the fighter pilot ratio of PAF:IAF is at an all time low of 3:4.
 
Azaad said:
But it's disturbing to see the prolonged campaign against HAL that too by someone of the stature of the ACM of the IAF. At some point it should or must result in retaliation by HAL. There's a limit to muck raking & the ACM is taking this too far. After all in this saga none of the players are clean be it HAL or ADA / DRDO or IAF & least of all MoD / GoI who're the biggest culprits IMHO.
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He's doing it on instructions of his political bosses, that there is no pushback is all the evidence you need.
No other Chief-of title carrying genrol from any of the 3 forces has uttered such jhumlas against any DPSU IIRC.

My question is why? I have arrived at the conclusion that it is to buy 114 F-16s as a part of the MRFA by shitting on Tejas/ADA/HAL, the money to be spent on GE F404, GEF414 etc and Tejas mk1a, Mk2 MWF can be redirected for the F16 purchase since it is also a single engine fighter.

This is mainly to appease the US and not necessarily Trump.

TLDR is besmirch HAL/Tejas/ADA in order to clear the way politically for imports, consensus is being manufactured that DPSU BAD and imports are the only way forward.

F16 is the only one of the MRFA plane contenders that has the scale to deliver the jets quickly.

Anyway in future we may get more clarity if my theory is correct or not.

If GOI is serious about domestic MIC than another 36 Rafales plus the frenchies providing us with certain gucci technologies in exchange would make sense but pata nahi.
 
iNorthernerOn9 said:
As of today:

* PAF fields more number of fighter jets than IAF's Western, South-Western & Central air commands combined.

* The PAF has more fighter pilots in absolute numbers than these 3 commands combined. & overall the fighter pilot ratio of PAF:IAF is at an all time low of 3:4.
Click to expand...


If engine came, slide will be fixed temporarily against PAF, but against PLAAF, We need different set of doctrine itself, which we may increase the squadron size.
 
shade2 said:
He's doing it on instructions of his political bosses, that there is no pushback is all the evidence you need.
No other Chief-of title carrying genrol from any of the 3 forces has uttered such jhumlas against any DPSU IIRC.

My question is why? I have arrived at the conclusion that it is to buy 114 F-16s as a part of the MRFA by shitting on Tejas/ADA/HAL, the money to be spent on GE F404, GEF414 etc and Tejas mk1a, Mk2 MWF can be redirected for the F16 purchase since it is also a single engine fighter.

This is mainly to appease the US and not necessarily Trump.

TLDR is besmirch HAL/Tejas/ADA in order to clear the way politically for imports, consensus is being manufactured that DPSU BAD and imports are the only way forward.

F16 is the only one of the MRFA plane contenders that has the scale to deliver the jets quickly.

Anyway in future we may get more clarity if my theory is correct or not.

If GOI is serious about domestic MIC than another 36 Rafales plus the frenchies providing us with certain gucci technologies in exchange would make sense but pata nahi.
Click to expand...
That besmirching was more on account of signing a G2G with France to get 36-54 Rafales for the IAF pronto thru direct imports . Unless the idea is to get Dassault to set up a mfg line here in which case the IN requirement for 26 nos Rafale M will be delayed. We'd know what is their game plan in the next 3-4 months.

The F-16 / F-21 won't figure in the IAF at all for the simple reason LM was planning to shut down a plant & shift it to India to mfg them locally in partnership with a Pvt Sector Player which in all likelihood would be Tatas.

That entire process will take anywhere between 5-6 years to fructify (& I'm being very optimistic here ) viz negotiations , signing off , shifting of the plant here , first FA roll out which puts it in 2031 for a war we're expected to wage against the Chinese anytime after 2028.

Besides how exactly are these F-16s going to help us go up against the PLAAF with their limitations ? It's not exactly in the league of the F-35 .

We need something off the shelf RN. The best way would be to get Macron to lean on Dassault to prioritise us over the other customers & start churning out Rafales within 2 years of signing the contract which we'd have to ink before the calendar year is out .

If we get too clever by half which we can always count on the dhotis & babooos to do , they'd try to get Dassault to set up a line here by committing only 36+25 FA whereas Trappier of Dassault has clearly indicated he won't consider anything below 100 nos to set up such a line & then there's the time taken to set up such a line which would take at least 2- 3 years & another 2-3 to get the first FA to roll out.
 
How dare the ACM say what is the truth. HAL has been lying from day one. when GE said in the contract they can deliver 3 - 4 engines a year because the line is shut down and that it would take 2 years - 3 years before full rate production, what business did HAL have promising 24 aircraft a year.

FFS, they have 7-8 engines from the reserve, why the hell arent those Mk1As in IAF hands? because they are not ready.
Astra integration is pending. Python integration is pending. A2G tests are pending. Heck, it was only this week or last that mid air refueling got validated. Lazy jackasses at HAL are letting down the extremely impressive hard work done by the few.

Even DHRUV. For 6 years you knew the control rods will fail, what exactly did you do?

why should either of the 4 services that operate it risk the lives of their men AFTER knowing that HAL fucked around?

Believe me there are several skeletons yet to tumble out of the HAL closet. Including money and other gifts from certain slavic peoples.
 
iNorthernerOn9 said:
As of today:

* PAF fields more number of fighter jets than IAF's Western, South-Western & Central air commands combined.

* The PAF has more fighter pilots in absolute numbers than these 3 commands combined. & overall the fighter pilot ratio of PAF:IAF is at an all time low of 3:4.
Click to expand...

PAF fields 156 JF-17 with more on order
Certain Junk Fighters are receiving upgrades of AESA radar and BVR missiles from Chings too..

IAF playing games of IOC, FOC, not-mk1a-because-one-missile-wasnt-launched etc with Tejas.


IN meanwhile has no paucity in quantity and quality of ships vs PN
It's because they have been designing and building their own stuff since the late 70s 🗿

PN is now AAAAH I'M IMPOORTING :pmegusta: Ching and Turkan ships, they placed an order for 8 Mard -e- Chowmein AIP subs in a vain effort to do equal-equal with IN surface fleet in ~2015 but as of writing not even one of these subs have been delivered :bplease:

At some point we will have to fight China, and piecemeal gold-plated imports won't help there, but still they haven't learnt any lessons, Tejas is the red-headed step-child forced upon by the GoI even today and they still lust after Gold-Plated import du jure.

They have to internalize that part of their war fighting duties is preparing for war, which for a country of our size and facing an adversary like China means domestic design and production of platforms and weapons, they can't keep on playing the current "pass the file" games and chai-biscoot sessions with their IAS and -Minister counterparts any longer.
 
Binayak95 said:
How dare the ACM say what is the truth. HAL has been lying from day one. when GE said in the contract they can deliver 3 - 4 engines a year because the line is shut down and that it would take 2 years - 3 years before full rate production, what business did HAL have promising 24 aircraft a year.

FFS, they have 7-8 engines from the reserve, why the hell arent those Mk1As in IAF hands? because they are not ready.
Click to expand...
I have more confidence in what you say than in what HAL says.
 
Azaad said:
You're not reading the situation right.

He's pitching for MRFA to be mfgd in India with a Pvt Sector player in collaboration with a Foreign OEM except it's a bit late in the day for that coz GoI believes in getting the balance 36 nos Rafales & closing the file on the entire MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA episode whereas the IAF is clinging on to the old story where Dassault would partner a local Pvt Sector player ( Anilbhai in this instance) & set up a FAL followed by a mfg line which would eventually emerge as a rival HAL.

This was the original plan of the GoI / MoD / IAF which got derailed.
Click to expand...
This was a good plan in 2016 when we ordered Rafales, Any idea why it got derailed? why didn't gov made it MAKE IN INDIA from the start, it would have been good propagenda for elections as well as some backdoor donations through Reliance if at all. let alone all the boasting they would get to do that we set things right and bla bla blah highground.. morales... India first..
 
Asmodeus said:
This was a good plan in 2016 when we ordered Rafales, Any idea why it got derailed? why didn't gov made it MAKE IN INDIA from the start, it would have been good propagenda for elections as well as some backdoor donations through Reliance if at all. let alone all the boasting they would get to do that we set things right and bla bla blah highground.. morales... India first..
Click to expand...
We got that thing called Pappu which barked SCAM SCAM at behest of either Eurof@ggots/Burgerchods. Surely we couldn't proceed with such political environment then.

But one silver lining is it didn't happen because the money-upto 20B would have gone to gutters since F*rench are anyhow not gonna transfer that if we go by their shenanigans until now. I had more faith in Burgerchods transferring more ToT and Know-How than French.
 
Asmodeus said:
This was a good plan in 2016 when we ordered Rafales, Any idea why it got derailed? why didn't gov made it MAKE IN INDIA from the start, it would have been good propagenda for elections as well as some backdoor donations through Reliance if at all. let alone all the boasting they would get to do that we set things right and bla bla blah highground.. morales... India first..
Click to expand...
To my mind 3 principal reasons - the first being RaGa's campaign insinuating Anilbhai stood to make a fortune thus linking that to Modi & the BJP which made the GoI put the entire procurement on the back burner ( there was a court case on as well which ended in humiliation for RaGa ) , the second being GoI being tight fisted with defence CAPEX as a result of which it was proposed the Rafales could come in piece meal fashion ala the MKIs instead of through the MRFA tender route which brings us to the third point & the role of ex ACM Chaudhari in this affair , who in turn shot down the suggestion , insisting on the tender & had a public spat on this with CDS the late Gen Rawat with 3 years being lost in the bargain & here we are.
 
Asmodeus said:
This was a good plan in 2016 when we ordered Rafales, Any idea why it got derailed? why didn't gov made it MAKE IN INDIA from the start, it would have been good propagenda for elections as well as some backdoor donations through Reliance if at all. let alone all the boasting they would get to do that we set things right and bla bla blah highground.. morales... India first..
Click to expand...

Mudi got scared of Raul's barkings.
Even though the SC case also fell flat on Raul's face.

Last I checked there were rumors that they will have RFP for MRFA this year so everyone can play trial-trial, tender-tender, pass-the-file, chai-biskoot sessions for next 4-5 years in order to do a """"clean""""" procurement, by then will Mudi be in power, will the Frenchies and Europoids still sell the same jets? who knows.
:bplease:

Meanwhile, "SQUADRONS DECLINING SAAAR" cheekte rahenge, Tejas delay hota rahega and F-35 ki dalali "defence journalists" karte rahenge...

GodEmperorDoom said:
We got that thing called Pappu which barked SCAM SCAM at behest of either Eurof@ggots/Burgerchods. Surely we couldn't proceed with such political environment then.

But one silver lining is it didn't happen because the money-upto 20B would have gone to gutters since F*rench are anyhow not gonna transfer that if we go by their shenanigans until now. I had more faith in Burgerchods transferring more ToT and Know-How than French.
Click to expand...

The burgers also wouldn't, if you want tech you have to either reverse engineer the stuff you have or engage in industrial espionage and hiring top-tier experts and specialists in whatever required fields to build the tech in house.

Ofc for this you need open wallets and generous funding, chindi govt doesn't want to spend that money to jaane do :facepalm4:

This ToT concept is a total scam, nobody is going to spoon feed you the good stuff aside from very rare scenarios like the Russi giving us full ToT for a certain SSN design that was modded to make the Arihant-class SSBN
 
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