Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

Eurocucks ke baare mai bolo mat. I have an axe to grind there. Useless shits with more pathetic citizenry than our own.

Apart from Poland France and Italy no one there is serious about their military and even in those countries there is zero appetite for serving the nation.

Do you really think we won't be getting "kill switch" treatment from US if we bought f35?

 

[Binayak95]

here we go again with this same wrong shit.

Kindly give the details of radar, weapon packages of both su57 And rafale to me and explain how rafale Is a generation ahead.

Also kindly provide me the source that informed you that stealth of su57 is shit.
Like from what my uneducated ass knows, it's stealth is worse than f35 and j20 But still a stealth jet, miles stealthier than rafale.

"Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse."

After walking out we started our own "stealth project" did not start "rafale like project" to compensate from walking out of fgfa.
I would say still behind US, and even china somewhat.
Behind Europe in terms of jet engines.
But way above 90s.

Bhai my understanding comes from places and people I cannot quote, nor can i source here. Leave it at that. have no interest in getting into dick measuring contests online.
Our opinion doesnt matter anyway, mine less so, given i am retired and working in a field that seeks to make manned warfare obsolete.

Just saying things as i see it. and yeah, i'll double down, the Tejas Mk1A has better radar than the Su57.

 

[Binayak95]

Do you really think we won't be getting "kill switch" treatment from US if we bought f35?

I just said above F35 is a system no one here really understands. If it comes in, it will be hobbled by IAF itself, and our refusal to let it integrate into US systems. so we will get a fighter without any of its threat analysis and adaptive EW capabilities.
Which is why i dont think we are getting it.

 

[randombully]

No thats the point. We wont have to retrofit Indian mission computers and avionics to ANY non Russian fighter (Rafale included) because they already conform to the MILSTD 1553B.

We can configure it as is to use Indian weapons, that was the entire point.

Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad. F404 delay was entirely on HAL and MOD file pushing. Fuckers took so long that the entire line shut down. Same thing with the MTU engines for Arjuns, and the C17s. we could have gotten 7 more, but took so long that UAE of all countries snapped them up, leaving us to settle for one.

Ask the Westoids to fit russin weapons on the milstd
Then see whether they agree or not.
With our mission computers, su30mki's can fit western, indian, russian falana dikhna all types of weapons.

"Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad."
Doesn't changed the fact that delay in delivery Happened, with no clear reason given by american side, even tho morroco got it's apache delivered recently, and news that came out that biden administration held the delivery back.

 

[randombully]

IF the F15 is outdated, why is the USAF building and buying 12 squadrons worth of the new EXs? and yes, its the EX on offer.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the EX should be bought.

I am just saying its on the table and is a serious contender.

Rest of F15 models are so out dated, that ex is the first one to have "fly by wire".

 

[Binayak95]

Ask the Westoids to fit russin weapons on the milstd
Then see whether they agree or not.
With our mission computers, su30mki's can fit western, indian, russian falana dikhna all types of weapons.

"Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad."
Doesn't changed the fact that delay in delivery Happened, with no clear reason given by american side, even tho morroco got it's apache delivered recently, and news that came out that biden administration held the delivery back.

Tell me you have never seen a Russian terminal without telling me youve never seen a Russian terminal.

I am arguing with morons here.
believe what you want, youre adults (i presume)

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

IF the F15 is outdated, why is the USAF building and buying 12 squadrons worth of the new EXs? and yes, its the EX on offer.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the EX should be bought.

I am just saying its on the table and is a serious contender.

It's very likely that Dassault will pull similar shenanigans again. Their decision to partner with Anil Ambani—a complete nobody in aerospace—back in 2016 was a clear indication that they are not honest remotely about anything. There are almost a dozen companies that make aerostructures, yet Dassault wanting to take complete control of DRAL in Kanpur shows their reluctance to share any meaningful technology. That is almost on par with Chinese EV makers partnering with a construction company like Megha to make EVs when asked for a JV. Heck, the Chinese have more integrity than the French.

If we have to import, I guess F-15EX is a strong contender. Should have to look at those technologies inside it, I mean all the Avionics are superior to whatever we conceived until now, F110 is again better than what we had, my only gripe is F-15 came during Cold War era and whether it's recent variant F-15EX has Composites skin. If Boeing is intent on full ToT, Manufacturing Standards, AFP Machines and all that, it's better than dealing with Cheaters.

 

[randombully]

combined with our doctrine and warfighting experience will allow us to trump the chinks, is the hope and prayer.

Yeah about.
We don't have any experience in the type of moden aerial warfare that will take place in himalayas.
And chinks are hiring retired western pilots for years.

And truthfully, even until 2010's their airforce doctrine and training we're way worse than ours.
Not the case anymore.

View: https://youtu.be/xWTz6S5pOhU?si=wxxpT1kZylzx28DW

View: https://youtu.be/EN5ySqO1W98?si=uJvztN89zKoNREj1

 

[randombully]

Plus, from a pure historical perspective, several nations have prospered when their private entities team up with american firms to do some manufacturing, they naturally spend money and resources to do R&D and upgrades because unlike govt firms, they cant survive on taxpayer largesse. Once the aircraft is flying, they have to earn money by upgrading them and overhauling them AND developing the next thing lest they go bankrupt.

Examples being IAI, Mitsubishi and TAI.

Don't need usa for that.
Can do the same with other countries.

 

[randombully]

Tell me you have never seen a Russian terminal without telling me youve never seen a Russian terminal.

On what.
20+years old su30mki?
30+ years old mig29's?

Forget su57.
Go check the digital terminals on su35s.

I am arguing with morons here.
believe what you want, youre adults (i presume

Feeling's mutual.
Your the guy who formed an opinion on that rafale> su57, without any concrete source, just based on your experience with "decades old"Russian tech, and internet buzz.
Not even asking for a proof, just give me decent source or detailed breakdown if their avionics and tell me what makes rafale's avionics next gen?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

The SU57 is a joke of a plane.

Its not stealthy, it's radars, EW and weapons package is a generation behind the rafale and even behind what we can make here (Virupaksha and the new MkIII astra).

Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse.

Do you even know what russian have offered ?
At aero india they made it clear su57 can be AMCAnised. They are ready to integrate our own sub-systems in that all ew suit avionics suit.
We can have our eots/irst, das from mk2, virupaksha which has 2400 Gan tr modules or the newer iteration of virupaksha from data patterns with 2700 Gan tr modules. We can have our own mission computer which also reduce the hassle of integration of indigeneous weapons systems. So the issue of electronics can be easily sorted out with our indigeneous avionics suit.
We call bars of su30 mini awacs su57 with hawk I 2700 would be huge capability addition.
now don't demean indigeneous avionics and all.

-unlike rafale whose radar is even smaller than Tejas mk2s which doesn't even have e Gan yet stands no where near this AMCAnised su57.
And let's not forget we would be paying them not less than 250 million for each jet with weapons purchase which can be avoided as we have indigeneous alternatives for them.
And we can integrate any weapon hassle free in su57 unlike rafale. Anyways this is not concern here right now.

They recently offered su57 roll out from existing Nashik with few modifications in assembly line.
So it much better deal now if we consider there recent offers. And make much more sense than expensive rafale. Still it won't cost 250 Million per piece.
Su57 might not be good at stealth but it's much better than rafale. It's might have higher ir signature with current Al41 engine too.

if they're ready to this extend we can try our indigeneous RAS/RAM on it to boost stealth.

This AMCAnised su57 would atleast hold something against j20 unlike expensive rafale which can't keep up against j20.

Overall AMCAnised su57 would be much much better choice than rafale.
What happened to integration of astra mk1 ?

 

[AbRaj]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1898444300179910987

With this both alpha defense, and defense matrix.
Seems to agree with my conclusion of su57 over rafale.
It was fuckin stupid that there was even a debate over capabilities of rafale vs su57.

Now it's up to iaf if thet wanna go for a stealth jet or they feel non stealth jet like rafale can still be decent choice in the current situation.

But f35 and US are the biggest variable here.

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

On what.
20+years old su30mki?
30+ years old mig29's?

Forget su57.
Go check the digital terminals on su35s.


Feeling's mutual.
Your the guy who formed an opinion on that rafale> su57, without any concrete source, just based on your experience with "decades old"Russian tech, and internet buzz.
Not even asking for a proof, just give me decent source or detailed breakdown if their avionics and tell me what makes rafale's avionics next gen?

He still lives in 90s era. Russia has outsourced alot of electronics from China. That's being said it's none of our concern. Uac offered us to put our avionics suit that's solves problem but those who want to dik ride muricans/french will still say rafale BeTTeR, f15ex this that. Americans shift there policy every now and then they have cuked Europeans with few months. Forget trusting usa on this matter.

 

[AbRaj]

People were thinking too much hype for SU-57.

The reality will be same as all planes/tanks/weapons from Russians.

1. Will looks great on outside.
2. Once bought we will see the reality.
3. The Mission computer is stone age shit.
4. The EW system perform dogshit.
5. The overall fit and finish looks shit compared to even Tejas. Will see quality lapse and Russians will ask for extra money.
6. Radar will be PESA since they don't have any AESA for now.
7. We will proudly start the upgradation program. Replace the radar, add our own MAWS, RWR, Targeting system and EOTS. Then replace the Mission computer.
8. Finally start inducting the Astra Mk3, Rudram, HSLD, Gaurav and do the trials.
9. Because as we aware current Russian missile completely failed with us during post Balakot standoff.
10. But claim the plane is cost less. But in reality we bought in less price and put further money to make it good.

Finally.

View attachment 27075

This is not an 5th Gen plane. Spectra, Aladdin, Ninja jutjisu cannot make it stealth. Even LO, BLO, GLOW designation will not make it 5th Gen. It is an 4.5th Gen plane.

View attachment 27076

It is an 5th Gen plane on paper. But still have compromise like IRST, Partially exposed turbines. We don't know the nature of RAM, how good the russian composites were. It gives slight edge. But still F-35, F-22 can smoke it due to much better sensors and overall stealth nature.

Su57 will need immediate upgrade after buying to make it survivable against Chinese. Hell it needs a comprehensive upgrade even before purchase for it to to be worthwhile for at least few years.

As for the Rafale, its Tejas Ultra Pro Max
F35 is IPhone 15

 

[randombully]

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

Situations change.
Many things not in our control.

F404 engine delay,
f414 deal stuck.
Amca not coming before 2035.
Chinks are churning out 100+ j20 per year.
News of pak interested in 5th gen.
Falling squardons.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1898444300179910987

With this both alpha defense, and defense matrix.
Seems to agree with my conclusion of su57 over rafale.
It was fuckin stupid that there was even a debate over capabilities of rafale vs su57.

Now it's up to iaf if thet wanna go for a stealth jet or they feel non stealth jet like rafale can still be decent choice in the current situation.

But f35 and US are the biggest variable here.

People just fail to understand things have changed since fgfa days.

People were thinking too much hype for SU-57.

The reality will be same as all planes/tanks/weapons from Russians.

1. Will looks great on outside.
2. Once bought we will see the reality.
3. The Mission computer is stone age shit.

Well if you see my previous reply russians have offered amcanised su57 what does that mean ?

4. The EW system perform dogshit.

We can have ours now

5. The overall fit and finish looks shit compared to even Tejas. Will see quality lapse and Russians will ask for extra money.

Initial prototypes weren't that good but we can make them here

6. Radar will be PESA since they don't have any AESA for now.

We can have ours now

7. We will proudly start the upgradation program. Replace the radar, add our own MAWS, RWR, Targeting system and EOTS. Then replace the Mission computer.

No need to upgrade from the begging we can have ours

8. Finally start inducting the Astra Mk3, Rudram, HSLD, Gaurav and do the trials.

Astra mk3 with virupaksha/hawk I 2700 would be monstrous combo

9. Because as we aware current Russian missile completely failed with us during post Balakot standoff.

There is no need to get russian weapons with jet we ain't buying it from french

10. But claim the plane is cost less. But in reality we bought in less price and put further money to make it good.

It will cost less than rafale, f35, AMCAnised su57mki would be best for IAF

This is not an 5th Gen plane. Spectra, Aladdin, Ninja jutjisu cannot make it stealth. Even LO, BLO, GLOW designation will not make it 5th Gen. It is an 4.5th Gen plane.

Even then despite not being a 5th gen it costs so much. And let's not forget hassle of indi weapons intergation, until then buy french weapons also that intergation also costing huge.

It is an 5th Gen plane on paper. But still have compromise like IRST, Partially exposed turbines.

The intakes have cowls like big canards which cover the intakes when needed not ideal but does the job. We can try our eots, which is under development I think under realisation too. we can avoid irst instead keep provision in future to put our eots if it's not ready on time. We can also have our maws.

We don't know the nature of RAM, how good the russian composites were.

They are open to this extend then we can have our RAS RAM. Maybe even composites on su57mki

It gives slight edge. But still F-35, F-22 can smoke it due to much better sensors and overall stealth nature.

It will never face them

 

[Indianhawk]

Do you even know what russian have offered ?
At aero india they made it clear su57 can be AMCAnised. They are ready to integrate our own sub-systems in that all ew suit avionics suit.
We can have our eots/irst, das from mk2, virupaksha which has 2400 Gan tr modules or the newer iteration of virupaksha from data patterns with 2700 Gan tr modules. We can have our own mission computer which also reduce the hassle of integration of indigeneous weapons systems. So the issue of electronics can be easily sorted out with our indigeneous avionics suit.
We call bars of su30 mini awacs su57 with hawk I 2700 would be huge capability addition.
now don't demean indigeneous avionics and all.

-unlike rafale whose radar is even smaller than Tejas mk2s which doesn't even have e Gan yet stands no where near this AMCAnised su57.
And let's not forget we would be paying them not less than 250 million for each jet with weapons purchase which can be avoided as we have indigeneous alternatives for them.
And we can integrate any weapon hassle free in su57 unlike rafale. Anyways this is not concern here right now.

They recently offered su57 roll out from existing Nashik with few modifications in assembly line.
So it much better deal now if we consider there recent offers. And make much more sense than expensive rafale. Still it won't cost 250 Million per piece.
Su57 might not be good at stealth but it's much better than rafale. It's might have higher ir signature with current Al41 engine too.

if they're ready to this extend we can try our indigeneous RAS/RAM on it to boost stealth.

This AMCAnised su57 would atleast hold something against j20 unlike expensive rafale which can't keep up against j20.

Overall AMCAnised su57 would be much much better choice than rafale.
What happened to integration of astra mk1 ?

All these changes to su57 is basically what was FGFA program. But that program relied upon new engine for su57 which is yet to be operational and more stealth oriented airframe which is why FGFA was cancelled.

Doing that all over again will take years of certifications and testing and yet you won't get something as stealthy as AMCA.

The only benefit of su57 is that it will be cheap if purchased directly from Russia as rouble has collapsed but make in India will turn it way more expensive negating that benefit.

 

[Punisher]

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

true...until someone stops this madness indian military won't stop importing stuff from outside....

 

[randombully]

Su57 will need immediate upgrade after buying to make it survivable against Chinese. Hell it needs a comprehensive upgrade even before purchase for it to to be worthwhile for at least few years.

As for the Rafale, its Tejas Ultra Pro Max
F35 is IPhone 15

again?
5th gens are based on continous upgrade philosophy su57, j20, f35 will receive continous upgrades.
So if we go su30mki way churn out same standards for 2 decades, su57 will get outdated sensors wise compared to other stealth jets, even by 2035.

But "immediate" upgrades, why?
What's your source? Explanation?
Do you even know what systems and sensors j20 and su57 have?

 

[Ultraman]

wikipedia says only 30 su-57 build till now, 10 of which are prototypes. maybe not upto date

from this article

Sukhoi-57: UAC Misses 2024 Production Target For Felons; Russian Air Force Gets New Batch Of Su-57 Stealth Fighters

The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) announced on September 12 in a Telegram post that it had handed over a batch of new Su-57 and Su-35S aircraft to the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS). The UAC post didn’t specify the number of Su-57 fighters delivered. However, an accompanying video showed two...

www.eurasiantimes.com

says only 2 delivered in 2024 against order of 24 .

Year: Su-57 Delivered

• 2020 1
• 2021 3
• 2022 6
• 2023 12
  
  
  su-57mki honestly gonna be another fail train for IAF.