Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[AbRaj]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1898444300179910987

With this both alpha defense, and defense matrix.
Seems to agree with my conclusion of su57 over rafale.
It was fuckin stupid that there was even a debate over capabilities of rafale vs su57.

Now it's up to iaf if thet wanna go for a stealth jet or they feel non stealth jet like rafale can still be decent choice in the current situation.

But f35 and US are the biggest variable here.

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

On what.
20+years old su30mki?
30+ years old mig29's?

Forget su57.
Go check the digital terminals on su35s.


Feeling's mutual.
Your the guy who formed an opinion on that rafale> su57, without any concrete source, just based on your experience with "decades old"Russian tech, and internet buzz.
Not even asking for a proof, just give me decent source or detailed breakdown if their avionics and tell me what makes rafale's avionics next gen?

He still lives in 90s era. Russia has outsourced alot of electronics from China. That's being said it's none of our concern. Uac offered us to put our avionics suit that's solves problem but those who want to dik ride muricans/french will still say rafale BeTTeR, f15ex this that. Americans shift there policy every now and then they have cuked Europeans with few months. Forget trusting usa on this matter.

 

[AbRaj]

People were thinking too much hype for SU-57.

The reality will be same as all planes/tanks/weapons from Russians.

1. Will looks great on outside.
2. Once bought we will see the reality.
3. The Mission computer is stone age shit.
4. The EW system perform dogshit.
5. The overall fit and finish looks shit compared to even Tejas. Will see quality lapse and Russians will ask for extra money.
6. Radar will be PESA since they don't have any AESA for now.
7. We will proudly start the upgradation program. Replace the radar, add our own MAWS, RWR, Targeting system and EOTS. Then replace the Mission computer.
8. Finally start inducting the Astra Mk3, Rudram, HSLD, Gaurav and do the trials.
9. Because as we aware current Russian missile completely failed with us during post Balakot standoff.
10. But claim the plane is cost less. But in reality we bought in less price and put further money to make it good.

Finally.

View attachment 27075

This is not an 5th Gen plane. Spectra, Aladdin, Ninja jutjisu cannot make it stealth. Even LO, BLO, GLOW designation will not make it 5th Gen. It is an 4.5th Gen plane.

View attachment 27076

It is an 5th Gen plane on paper. But still have compromise like IRST, Partially exposed turbines. We don't know the nature of RAM, how good the russian composites were. It gives slight edge. But still F-35, F-22 can smoke it due to much better sensors and overall stealth nature.

Su57 will need immediate upgrade after buying to make it survivable against Chinese. Hell it needs a comprehensive upgrade even before purchase for it to to be worthwhile for at least few years.

As for the Rafale, its Tejas Ultra Pro Max
F35 is IPhone 15

 

[randombully]

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

Situations change.
Many things not in our control.

F404 engine delay,
f414 deal stuck.
Amca not coming before 2035.
Chinks are churning out 100+ j20 per year.
News of pak interested in 5th gen.
Falling squardons.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1898444300179910987

With this both alpha defense, and defense matrix.
Seems to agree with my conclusion of su57 over rafale.
It was fuckin stupid that there was even a debate over capabilities of rafale vs su57.

Now it's up to iaf if thet wanna go for a stealth jet or they feel non stealth jet like rafale can still be decent choice in the current situation.

But f35 and US are the biggest variable here.

People just fail to understand things have changed since fgfa days.

People were thinking too much hype for SU-57.

The reality will be same as all planes/tanks/weapons from Russians.

1. Will looks great on outside.
2. Once bought we will see the reality.
3. The Mission computer is stone age shit.

Well if you see my previous reply russians have offered amcanised su57 what does that mean ?

4. The EW system perform dogshit.

We can have ours now

5. The overall fit and finish looks shit compared to even Tejas. Will see quality lapse and Russians will ask for extra money.

Initial prototypes weren't that good but we can make them here

6. Radar will be PESA since they don't have any AESA for now.

We can have ours now

7. We will proudly start the upgradation program. Replace the radar, add our own MAWS, RWR, Targeting system and EOTS. Then replace the Mission computer.

No need to upgrade from the begging we can have ours

8. Finally start inducting the Astra Mk3, Rudram, HSLD, Gaurav and do the trials.

Astra mk3 with virupaksha/hawk I 2700 would be monstrous combo

9. Because as we aware current Russian missile completely failed with us during post Balakot standoff.

There is no need to get russian weapons with jet we ain't buying it from french

10. But claim the plane is cost less. But in reality we bought in less price and put further money to make it good.

It will cost less than rafale, f35, AMCAnised su57mki would be best for IAF

This is not an 5th Gen plane. Spectra, Aladdin, Ninja jutjisu cannot make it stealth. Even LO, BLO, GLOW designation will not make it 5th Gen. It is an 4.5th Gen plane.

Even then despite not being a 5th gen it costs so much. And let's not forget hassle of indi weapons intergation, until then buy french weapons also that intergation also costing huge.

It is an 5th Gen plane on paper. But still have compromise like IRST, Partially exposed turbines.

The intakes have cowls like big canards which cover the intakes when needed not ideal but does the job. We can try our eots, which is under development I think under realisation too. we can avoid irst instead keep provision in future to put our eots if it's not ready on time. We can also have our maws.

We don't know the nature of RAM, how good the russian composites were.

They are open to this extend then we can have our RAS RAM. Maybe even composites on su57mki

It gives slight edge. But still F-35, F-22 can smoke it due to much better sensors and overall stealth nature.

It will never face them

 

[Indianhawk]

Do you even know what russian have offered ?
At aero india they made it clear su57 can be AMCAnised. They are ready to integrate our own sub-systems in that all ew suit avionics suit.
We can have our eots/irst, das from mk2, virupaksha which has 2400 Gan tr modules or the newer iteration of virupaksha from data patterns with 2700 Gan tr modules. We can have our own mission computer which also reduce the hassle of integration of indigeneous weapons systems. So the issue of electronics can be easily sorted out with our indigeneous avionics suit.
We call bars of su30 mini awacs su57 with hawk I 2700 would be huge capability addition.
now don't demean indigeneous avionics and all.

-unlike rafale whose radar is even smaller than Tejas mk2s which doesn't even have e Gan yet stands no where near this AMCAnised su57.
And let's not forget we would be paying them not less than 250 million for each jet with weapons purchase which can be avoided as we have indigeneous alternatives for them.
And we can integrate any weapon hassle free in su57 unlike rafale. Anyways this is not concern here right now.

They recently offered su57 roll out from existing Nashik with few modifications in assembly line.
So it much better deal now if we consider there recent offers. And make much more sense than expensive rafale. Still it won't cost 250 Million per piece.
Su57 might not be good at stealth but it's much better than rafale. It's might have higher ir signature with current Al41 engine too.

if they're ready to this extend we can try our indigeneous RAS/RAM on it to boost stealth.

This AMCAnised su57 would atleast hold something against j20 unlike expensive rafale which can't keep up against j20.

Overall AMCAnised su57 would be much much better choice than rafale.
What happened to integration of astra mk1 ?

All these changes to su57 is basically what was FGFA program. But that program relied upon new engine for su57 which is yet to be operational and more stealth oriented airframe which is why FGFA was cancelled.

Doing that all over again will take years of certifications and testing and yet you won't get something as stealthy as AMCA.

The only benefit of su57 is that it will be cheap if purchased directly from Russia as rouble has collapsed but make in India will turn it way more expensive negating that benefit.

 

[Punisher]

Rafale was supposed to be our last FA import as per some expert defence followers.
Meanwhile iAF always had different plans.

true...until someone stops this madness indian military won't stop importing stuff from outside....

 

[randombully]

Su57 will need immediate upgrade after buying to make it survivable against Chinese. Hell it needs a comprehensive upgrade even before purchase for it to to be worthwhile for at least few years.

As for the Rafale, its Tejas Ultra Pro Max
F35 is IPhone 15

again?
5th gens are based on continous upgrade philosophy su57, j20, f35 will receive continous upgrades.
So if we go su30mki way churn out same standards for 2 decades, su57 will get outdated sensors wise compared to other stealth jets, even by 2035.

But "immediate" upgrades, why?
What's your source? Explanation?
Do you even know what systems and sensors j20 and su57 have?

 

[Ultraman]

wikipedia says only 30 su-57 build till now, 10 of which are prototypes. maybe not upto date

from this article

Sukhoi-57: UAC Misses 2024 Production Target For Felons; Russian Air Force Gets New Batch Of Su-57 Stealth Fighters

The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) announced on September 12 in a Telegram post that it had handed over a batch of new Su-57 and Su-35S aircraft to the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS). The UAC post didn’t specify the number of Su-57 fighters delivered. However, an accompanying video showed two...

www.eurasiantimes.com

says only 2 delivered in 2024 against order of 24 .

Year: Su-57 Delivered

• 2020 1
• 2021 3
• 2022 6
• 2023 12
  
  
  su-57mki honestly gonna be another fail train for IAF.

 

[Binayak95]

Do you even know what russian have offered ?
At aero india they made it clear su57 can be AMCAnised. They are ready to integrate our own sub-systems in that all ew suit avionics suit.
We can have our eots/irst, das from mk2, virupaksha which has 2400 Gan tr modules or the newer iteration of virupaksha from data patterns with 2700 Gan tr modules. We can have our own mission computer which also reduce the hassle of integration of indigeneous weapons systems. So the issue of electronics can be easily sorted out with our indigeneous avionics suit.
We call bars of su30 mini awacs su57 with hawk I 2700 would be huge capability addition.
now don't demean indigeneous avionics and all.

-unlike rafale whose radar is even smaller than Tejas mk2s which doesn't even have e Gan yet stands no where near this AMCAnised su57.
And let's not forget we would be paying them not less than 250 million for each jet with weapons purchase which can be avoided as we have indigeneous alternatives for them.
And we can integrate any weapon hassle free in su57 unlike rafale. Anyways this is not concern here right now.

They recently offered su57 roll out from existing Nashik with few modifications in assembly line.
So it much better deal now if we consider there recent offers. And make much more sense than expensive rafale. Still it won't cost 250 Million per piece.
Su57 might not be good at stealth but it's much better than rafale. It's might have higher ir signature with current Al41 engine too.

if they're ready to this extend we can try our indigeneous RAS/RAM on it to boost stealth.

This AMCAnised su57 would atleast hold something against j20 unlike expensive rafale which can't keep up against j20.

Overall AMCAnised su57 would be much much better choice than rafale.
What happened to integration of astra mk1 ?

the Russians have promised, have they?

What kind of promise is this?

the we will give TOT for brahmos but you import our seekers and engines and we will block titanium exports for the body if you go for domestic engines and seeker kind?

and only after paying 450 million USD will we reluctantly certify your seekers and engines? oh, btw we will block your export sales to Phillipines and Indonesia too, while selling them the entirely unrelated Oniks? that kind of promise?

OR

is it the please buy T90s and save our tank industry - and yes we will give TOT. oh oops, the tot documents are in russian please pay for natasha to be your pvt translator as well.
Whats that? armour material composition, no we dont teach that to brownskins!

How dare you use kanchan for T90 - or try to use Arjun turrets on T72 hulls. you can only buy T72 hulls from us? Also heres the technology for the engines, but to make it yourself you have to first buy 248 million dollars of CKDs otherwise no more spares. This kind of promise?

OR

is it the heres a wunderbar Kashtan CIWS for free with your Talwars. oh btw its a POS that will rust in 2 weeks of operation in IOR conditions which we knew but haha, jokes on you Indians? and no you cant replace it with barak 1 and AK630 CIWS else we will block spares?

OR

heres a wonderful aircraft carrier that has chinese source firebricks that we know will collapse under high speed trials because the same happened with the kuznetsov?

and btw the money you paid for it actually went to pay salaries of the workers at the shipyard you see so pay 2 billion dollars more.

OR

oh look the Su30MKI is such a wonderful plane that we will:

- refuse to share Titanium monocrystalline manufacturing tech
- when HAL figures it out anyway, throw a hissy fit and refuse titanium supply till the PM intervened with Putin
- refuse to give russian source code for missiles and bus integration (still do btw) and HAL had to pay israelis for their jugaadu solution
- charge 200000 rupees for special spanners that use non standard fasteners and nuts that unnecessarily jack up the prices

OR

- deliberately sell T90s that have older autoloaders that cannot accept modern long APFSDS rounds that we are using in our T90s

- refuse to certify Indian and israeli AFPSDS round integration into Russian jackets.



These are the wonderful russian promises over the last many years. believe you me i have another 15 off the top of my head that i can state here.

From sabotaging Akash to S400 issues, to problems with Chakra II to AK203, to faulty batteries in Kilos.

The Russians make DCNS look like virgin nuns.

 

[randombully]

the Russians have promised, have they?

What kind of promise is this?

the we will give TOT for brahmos but you import our seekers and engines and we will block titanium exports for the body if you go for domestic engines and seeker kind?

and only after paying 450 million USD will we reluctantly certify your seekers and engines? oh, btw we will block your export sales to Phillipines and Indonesia too, while selling them the entirely unrelated Oniks? that kind of promise?

OR

is it the please buy T90s and save our tank industry - and yes we will give TOT. oh oops, the tot documents are in russian please pay for natasha to be your pvt translator as well.
Whats that? armour material composition, no we dont teach that to brownskins!

How dare you use kanchan for T90 - or try to use Arjun turrets on T72 hulls. you can only buy T72 hulls from us? Also heres the technology for the engines, but to make it yourself you have to first buy 248 million dollars of CKDs otherwise no more spares. This kind of promise?

OR

is it the heres a wunderbar Kashtan CIWS for free with your Talwars. oh btw its a POS that will rust in 2 weeks of operation in IOR conditions which we knew but haha, jokes on you Indians? and no you cant replace it with barak 1 and AK630 CIWS else we will block spares?

OR

heres a wonderful aircraft carrier that has chinese source firebricks that we know will collapse under high speed trials because the same happened with the kuznetsov?

and btw the money you paid for it actually went to pay salaries of the workers at the shipyard you see so pay 2 billion dollars more.

OR

oh look the Su30MKI is such a wonderful plane that we will:

- refuse to share Titanium monocrystalline manufacturing tech
- when HAL figures it out anyway, throw a hissy fit and refuse titanium supply till the PM intervened with Putin
- refuse to give russian source code for missiles and bus integration (still do btw) and HAL had to pay israelis for their jugaadu solution
- charge 200000 rupees for special spanners that use non standard fasteners and nuts that unnecessarily jack up the prices

OR

- deliberately sell T90s that have older autoloaders that cannot accept modern long APFSDS rounds that we are using in our T90s

- refuse to certify Indian and israeli AFPSDS round integration into Russian jackets.



These are the wonderful russian promises over the last many years. believe you me i have another 15 off the top of my head that i can state here.

From sabotaging Akash to S400 issues, to problems with Chakra II to AK203, to faulty batteries in Kilos.

The Russians make DCNS look like virgin nuns.

Well its understandable, with all these experiences.
But 1, france and US are not gonna be more "agreeable to tot" than Russians, they will be worse in this aspect.
2, like France also made us pay to integrate indian weapons in indian rafale that india "owns", and did not fulfill it's offset clause, because that's a key technology they don't wanna share with a third world country.
So in tot etc related field, no other country will be "better" than russian.
Like in brahmos, seeker and engine was not given, but if it were Amriki misile we would only be making its airframe, oh yeah, not making "assembling ready made kits" in that era, they would also put export restrictions.
And unlike talks with putin and modi when supply was restarted, again if it was talks with US president, even then it would not be solved.
That's a guarantee.
Realtive to both france and USA, ruskies are willing to share more tot.


"Also heres the technology for the engines, but to make it yourself you have to first buy 248 million dollars of CKDs otherwise no more spares. This kind of promise?"
that's actually a pretty standard practice for any company.

and only after paying 450 million USD will we reluctantly certify your seekers and engines? oh, btw we will block your export sales to Phillipines and Indonesia too, while selling them the entirely unrelated Oniks? that kind of promise?

The fact they certified our own seeker and "engine" itself is better than French and Americans.
And again it's a standard industry practice to put export restrictions on tot system to protect your market shares

It weird how you hate Russians for that, but other countries in these aspects will be even more stringent.

Like France will not allow us to export astra missiles to other countries who have rafales, even when we paid them to put astra on our rafales.

charge 200000 rupees for special spanners that use non standard fasteners and nuts that unnecessarily jack up the prices

Again, I'm not gonna say it's a good practice, but man your gonna hate dealing with americans and french even more if you hate these practice of unnecessary jacking up the price.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1gg7hyd/boeing_allegedly_overcharged_the_military_8000/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
They are doing it to fasteners and nuts, Boeing is doing it to fucking soap dispensers.



The only thing that seems credible in your argument of not liking russians( relative to west)
is the quality and tech, especially of post soviet 1990-2010 era quality and tech of ruskies.
Now things have improved a lot in these aspects, still behind US and even Europe in some key areas like jet engines.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

the Russians have promised, have they?

What kind of promise is this?

the we will give TOT for brahmos but you import our seekers and engines and we will block titanium exports for the body if you go for domestic engines and seeker kind?

and only after paying 450 million USD will we reluctantly certify your seekers and engines? oh, btw we will block your export sales to Phillipines and Indonesia too, while selling them the entirely unrelated Oniks? that kind of promise?

OR

is it the please buy T90s and save our tank industry - and yes we will give TOT. oh oops, the tot documents are in russian please pay for natasha to be your pvt translator as well.
Whats that? armour material composition, no we dont teach that to brownskins!

How dare you use kanchan for T90 - or try to use Arjun turrets on T72 hulls. you can only buy T72 hulls from us? Also heres the technology for the engines, but to make it yourself you have to first buy 248 million dollars of CKDs otherwise no more spares. This kind of promise?

OR

is it the heres a wunderbar Kashtan CIWS for free with your Talwars. oh btw its a POS that will rust in 2 weeks of operation in IOR conditions which we knew but haha, jokes on you Indians? and no you cant replace it with barak 1 and AK630 CIWS else we will block spares?

OR

heres a wonderful aircraft carrier that has chinese source firebricks that we know will collapse under high speed trials because the same happened with the kuznetsov?

and btw the money you paid for it actually went to pay salaries of the workers at the shipyard you see so pay 2 billion dollars more.

OR

oh look the Su30MKI is such a wonderful plane that we will:

- refuse to share Titanium monocrystalline manufacturing tech
- when HAL figures it out anyway, throw a hissy fit and refuse titanium supply till the PM intervened with Putin
- refuse to give russian source code for missiles and bus integration (still do btw) and HAL had to pay israelis for their jugaadu solution
- charge 200000 rupees for special spanners that use non standard fasteners and nuts that unnecessarily jack up the prices

OR

- deliberately sell T90s that have older autoloaders that cannot accept modern long APFSDS rounds that we are using in our T90s

- refuse to certify Indian and israeli AFPSDS round integration into Russian jackets.



These are the wonderful russian promises over the last many years. believe you me i have another 15 off the top of my head that i can state here.

From sabotaging Akash to S400 issues, to problems with Chakra II to AK203, to faulty batteries in Kilos.

The Russians make DCNS look like virgin nuns.

You're indeed right.

But things have changed since then back then we were not in the position of advantage today we are in. They are in desperation we can exploit to our advantage with keeping respective conditions to be met first or either refuse to order. I know I'm being optimistic but even rafale walas are sucking out our blood. Americans & french are much worse than Russians when it comes to tot.
Tbh we have to fight j20 No way rafale can protect our borders from j20. It just can't. That's why I'm in support of AMCAnised su57.
The AMCAnised su57 is much ahead of rafale at less cost.
They are desperate to sell. They need orders Unless and until our wishlist is fulfilled we shouldn't order it. Even if single thing is refused we should refuse to order. I don't think now uac can take us for granted.
What wrong in this approach ??
We need to deal with them. As I said rafale can't secure our air space against j20 & let's not talks abt dense iads in Tibet.
I dont think it will cost us much upgrading assembly lines as they said few changes will be required. If it's affordable then we must go for it.

From sabotaging Akash to S400 issues

Btw it would be really great if you put some effort in elaborating this.

 

[AbRaj]

Situations change.
Many things not in our control.

F404 engine delay,
f414 deal stuck.
Amca not coming before 2035.
Chinks are churning out 100+ j20 per year.
News of pak interested in 5th gen.
Falling squardons.

Brother , this is not how powerful countries plan their future. Whole system is rotten

 

[randombully]

Brother , this is not how powerful countries plan their future. Whole system is rotten

Yeah, I'm aware of it.
What solution do you propose?
That can be alternative to the solution proposed by that recent meeting to address, short term, medium term and long term problems of iaf? In the current situation.

We don't live an ideal world.
We have to navigate the current shitshow we have.

As for powerful.
We are only powerful in population and 5th in economy by gdp and 3rd by ppp.
We are not an powerful country with completely industrialized civilian and military sector which is independent and technologically leading.
We are doing fuckin catchup and if we continue to do it while not stopping due to any hurdles( many hurdles in past, many right now in present, many about to come in future) we can become that country probably by 2045-50.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

wikipedia says only 30 su-57 build till now, 10 of which are prototypes. maybe not upto date

from this article

Sukhoi-57: UAC Misses 2024 Production Target For Felons; Russian Air Force Gets New Batch Of Su-57 Stealth Fighters

The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) announced on September 12 in a Telegram post that it had handed over a batch of new Su-57 and Su-35S aircraft to the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS). The UAC post didn’t specify the number of Su-57 fighters delivered. However, an accompanying video showed two...

www.eurasiantimes.com

says only 2 delivered in 2024 against order of 24 .

Year: Su-57 Delivered

• 2020 1
• 2021 3
• 2022 6
• 2023 12
  
  
  su-57mki honestly gonna be another fail train for IAF.

In 2024 there target was to deliver 20 su57s.
However it's classified how many su57s were delivered what we know is they delivered su57s in 3 batches how much was the batch size we dont know. But it should be around 15-20.
They will be delivering first Algerian su57 by the end of 2025.
In 2025 they will atleast produce 20-25

 

[randombully]

In 2025 they will atleast produce 20-25

More like 5-6.
The production line will stay open with slow rate due to Algerian orders.
Russian vks now wants all it's su57 to come with al51, as final testing has been done and production lines are being set up.
But it can take 1+ years to set up production line for engine and initial production will be slow.
So to keep rest of production line for su57 open, till production of al51 starts, Algerian orders for 14 su57 we're helpful.

 

[AbRaj]

again?
5th gens are based on continous upgrade philosophy su57, j20, f35 will receive continous upgrades.
So if we go su30mki way churn out same standards for 2 decades, su57 will get outdated sensors wise compared to other stealth jets, even by 2035.

But "immediate" upgrades, why?
What's your source? Explanation?
Do you even know what systems and sensors j20 and su57 have?

I dont want to go into philosophy and sh**t but deep down everybody knows( based on available open source data ) that Su57 is not upto the mark even at present.

 

[randombully]

I dont want to go into philosophy and sh**t but deep down everybody knows( based on available open source data ) that Su57 is not upto the mark even at present.

Upto mark compared to what?
F35?
J20?
Rafale?
And that "everybody" argument is stupid.
Majority of people are wrong by large margin in subjects they Don't even have surface knowledge about.
That available open source data you are most likely referring to is comments by people on internet.


So yeah, tell me the details of why it's not upto mark.

Lets use rafales as benchmark
And tell me what it lacks.

 

[AbRaj]

Upto mark compared to what?
F35?
J20?
Rafale?
And that "everybody" argument is stupid.
Majority of people are wrong by large margin in subjects they Don't even have surface knowledge about.
That available open source data you are most likely referring to is comments by people on internet.


So yeah, tell me the details of why it's not upto mark.

Lets use rafales as benchmark
And tell me what it lacks.

Using NonLO FA as a benchmark to compare FGFA and higher standards is flawed to begin with ?
Benchmark should be oldest FGFA ie F22 or at least commercially available FGFA ie F35

 

[RocketMan]

the Russians have promised, have they?

What kind of promise is this?

the we will give TOT for brahmos but you import our seekers and engines and we will block titanium exports for the body if you go for domestic engines and seeker kind?

and only after paying 450 million USD will we reluctantly certify your seekers and engines? oh, btw we will block your export sales to Phillipines and Indonesia too, while selling them the entirely unrelated Oniks? that kind of promise?

OR

is it the please buy T90s and save our tank industry - and yes we will give TOT. oh oops, the tot documents are in russian please pay for natasha to be your pvt translator as well.
Whats that? armour material composition, no we dont teach that to brownskins!

How dare you use kanchan for T90 - or try to use Arjun turrets on T72 hulls. you can only buy T72 hulls from us? Also heres the technology for the engines, but to make it yourself you have to first buy 248 million dollars of CKDs otherwise no more spares. This kind of promise?

OR

is it the heres a wunderbar Kashtan CIWS for free with your Talwars. oh btw its a POS that will rust in 2 weeks of operation in IOR conditions which we knew but haha, jokes on you Indians? and no you cant replace it with barak 1 and AK630 CIWS else we will block spares?

OR

heres a wonderful aircraft carrier that has chinese source firebricks that we know will collapse under high speed trials because the same happened with the kuznetsov?

and btw the money you paid for it actually went to pay salaries of the workers at the shipyard you see so pay 2 billion dollars more.

OR

oh look the Su30MKI is such a wonderful plane that we will:

- refuse to share Titanium monocrystalline manufacturing tech
- when HAL figures it out anyway, throw a hissy fit and refuse titanium supply till the PM intervened with Putin
- refuse to give russian source code for missiles and bus integration (still do btw) and HAL had to pay israelis for their jugaadu solution
- charge 200000 rupees for special spanners that use non standard fasteners and nuts that unnecessarily jack up the prices

OR

- deliberately sell T90s that have older autoloaders that cannot accept modern long APFSDS rounds that we are using in our T90s

- refuse to certify Indian and israeli AFPSDS round integration into Russian jackets.



These are the wonderful russian promises over the last many years. believe you me i have another 15 off the top of my head that i can state here.

From sabotaging Akash to S400 issues, to problems with Chakra II to AK203, to faulty batteries in Kilos.

The Russians make DCNS look like virgin nuns.

At least they don't put kill switch like Americans . Also you need an OTP from US to use the jet everyday LoL .