Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

Just saying, you'll be surprised at how much cooperative US firms have become. Their is serious talk of manufacturing MQ9s here.

Cooperative on older tech and even then not in key components.
They may agree to manufacture mq9 in India, but Sar radars, engine etc will still come from usa, it will only be airframe that will be made.


See how much freedom their european allies have with f35 use.

 

[randombully]

How much freedom do you think you have with the Su30? With the F15, or any non Russian aircraft, you know the comm standards, you know the interface bus (MIL STD 1553B ftw) and voila, everything from israeli rampage to Indian SAAW is now open for game.

Why do you think we insisted on Indian mission computers on the MKI?

How much freedom do you think you have with the Su30? With the F15, or any non Russian aircraft, you know the comm standards, you know the interface bus (MIL STD 1553B ftw) and voila, everything from israeli rampage to Indian SAAW is now open for game.

Why do you think we insisted on Indian mission computers on the MKI?

We already have indian mission computers on mki's.
Already desified them.
Gotta do it all again on f15ex.

Plus even if Boeing agrees, then the extra money to integrate indian mission computer, to integrate other origin weapons, to biuld new infrastructure and training etc, will make f15ex more expensive.

Plus, Russia never put any political pressure on us on any weapon system.
US did in past.
US is more lenient in transport aircraft, but in case of fighter jets, we will have to bow down to US.
There are already suspicion that biden administration delayed apache delivery, and suspicion that f404 delay also has political angle.

Out of all the countries on earth, US is most reluctant to share tot.

 

[Binayak95]

Cooperative on older tech and even then not in key components.
They may agree to manufacture mq9 in India, but Sar radars, engine etc will still come from usa, it will only be airframe that will be made.


See how much freedom their european allies have with f35 use.

F35 is another entirely different ballgame, its less of an aircraft, more of a neural machine that processes threats like vectors in a ml model.

No one understands the system here, least of all the govt.

The US guards its threat libraries and models like a classified secret of the highest order, and rightfully so. the amount of chinese penetration globally is not only dangerous, its a fatal flaw. Chinks were able to steal the design after all, and chinese master and phd students in US and Europe are what has led to their technological rise.

SO yeah, they will allow us to play with a generation older equipment, but that, combined with our doctrine and warfighting experience will allow us to trump the chinks, is the hope and prayer.

Plus, from a pure historical perspective, several nations have prospered when their private entities team up with american firms to do some manufacturing, they naturally spend money and resources to do R&D and upgrades because unlike govt firms, they cant survive on taxpayer largesse. Once the aircraft is flying, they have to earn money by upgrading them and overhauling them AND developing the next thing lest they go bankrupt.

Examples being IAI, Mitsubishi and TAI.

 

[username unkown]

How much freedom do you think you have with the Su30? With the F15, or any non Russian aircraft, you know the comm standards, you know the interface bus (MIL STD 1553B ftw) and voila, everything from israeli rampage to Indian SAAW is now open for game.

Why do you think we insisted on Indian mission computers on the MKI?

European who ordered f 35 are crying on kill switch how can south Asian country believe in usa and you have to integrate all your weapons avionics on f 15 you have to pay Boeing tons of money gotta take permission with su 30 not so much

 

[Binayak95]

We already have indian mission computers on mki's.
Already desified them.
Gotta do it all again on f15ex.

Plus even if Boeing agrees, then the extra money to integrate indian mission computer, to integrate other origin weapons, to biuld new infrastructure and training etc, will make f15ex more expensive.

Plus, Russia never put any political pressure on us on any weapon system.
US did in past.
US is more lenient in transport aircraft, but in case of fighter jets, we will have to bow down to US.
There are already suspicion that biden administration delayed apache delivery, and suspicion that f404 delay also has political angle.

Out of all the countries on earth, US is most reluctant to share tot.

No thats the point. We wont have to retrofit Indian mission computers and avionics to ANY non Russian fighter (Rafale included) because they already conform to the MILSTD 1553B.

We can configure it as is to use Indian weapons, that was the entire point.

Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad. F404 delay was entirely on HAL and MOD file pushing. Fuckers took so long that the entire line shut down. Same thing with the MTU engines for Arjuns, and the C17s. we could have gotten 7 more, but took so long that UAE of all countries snapped them up, leaving us to settle for one.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

HAL almost was shuttered by Parikar. Tejas was their last chance, they fucked it up as usual. So now, GOI went ahead and wrote down on paper, what kind of strength the IAF actually desires for a two front war. 60 squadrons sounds about right, and then there's refuellers, AWACS and everything else.

So, given this tall cliff face of a capability gap, what do you do? You let JVs come in and rock the boat, since after all, all these years HAL has been doing precisely that - building Jaguars and MiG21s and Su30MKIs.

I'm not defending HAL, and I don't care if it gets shut down. I'm not even against imports if they're necessary. But what's the point of importing outdated platforms? Looking at Dassault's tactics, it seems they want to own the FAL in India entirely without transferring any real technology. The F-15 is a relic, the Su-57 was outdated the moment it arrived, and the F-16 is a complete non-starter. Gripen doesn’t stand a chance either. The only aircraft that make sense are the F-18, Rafale, and Typhoon. However, the Typhoon has almost no chance, despite being technologically on par with the Rafale, because we don’t want to deal with multiple partners. I also don't think the IAF has much interest in the F-18, which leaves only the Rafale. But I have serious doubts about Dassault’s ToT clause—after all, cheating is part and parcel of French approach to business.

 

[Binayak95]

European who ordered f 35 are crying on kill switch how can south Asian country believe in usa and you have to integrate all your weapons avionics on f 15 you have to pay Boeing tons of money gotta take permission with su 30 not so much

Eurocucks ke baare mai bolo mat. I have an axe to grind there. Useless shits with more pathetic citizenry than our own.

Apart from Poland France and Italy no one there is serious about their military and even in those countries there is zero appetite for serving the nation.

 

[randombully]

The SU57 is a joke of a plane.

Its not stealthy, it's radars, EW and weapons package is a generation behind the rafale and even behind what we can make here (Virupaksha and the new MkIII astra).

Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse.

here we go again with this same wrong shit.

Kindly give the details of radar, weapon packages of both su57 And rafale to me and explain how rafale Is a generation ahead.

Also kindly provide me the source that informed you that stealth of su57 is shit.
Like from what my uneducated ass knows, it's stealth is worse than f35 and j20 But still a stealth jet, miles stealthier than rafale.

"Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse."

After walking out we started our own "stealth project" did not start "rafale like project" to compensate from walking out of fgfa.
I would say still behind US, and even china somewhat.
Behind Europe in terms of jet engines.
But way above 90s.

 

[Binayak95]

I'm not defending HAL, and I don't care if it gets shut down. I'm not even against imports if they're necessary. But what's the point of importing outdated platforms? Looking at Dassault's tactics, it seems they want to own the FAL in India entirely without transferring any real technology. The F-15 is a relic, the Su-57 was outdated the moment it arrived, and the F-16 is a complete non-starter. Gripen doesn’t stand a chance either. The only aircraft that make sense are the F-18, Rafale, and Typhoon. However, the Typhoon has almost no chance, despite being technologically on par with the Rafale, because we don’t want to deal with multiple partners. I also don't think the IAF has much interest in the F-18, which leaves only the Rafale. But I have serious doubts about Dassault’s ToT clause—after all, cheating is part and parcel of French approach to business.

IF the F15 is outdated, why is the USAF building and buying 12 squadrons worth of the new EXs? and yes, its the EX on offer.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the EX should be bought.

I am just saying its on the table and is a serious contender.

 

[randombully]

Eurocucks ke baare mai bolo mat. I have an axe to grind there. Useless shits with more pathetic citizenry than our own.

Apart from Poland France and Italy no one there is serious about their military and even in those countries there is zero appetite for serving the nation.

Do you really think we won't be getting "kill switch" treatment from US if we bought f35?

 

[Binayak95]

here we go again with this same wrong shit.

Kindly give the details of radar, weapon packages of both su57 And rafale to me and explain how rafale Is a generation ahead.

Also kindly provide me the source that informed you that stealth of su57 is shit.
Like from what my uneducated ass knows, it's stealth is worse than f35 and j20 But still a stealth jet, miles stealthier than rafale.

"Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse."

After walking out we started our own "stealth project" did not start "rafale like project" to compensate from walking out of fgfa.
I would say still behind US, and even china somewhat.
Behind Europe in terms of jet engines.
But way above 90s.

Bhai my understanding comes from places and people I cannot quote, nor can i source here. Leave it at that. have no interest in getting into dick measuring contests online.
Our opinion doesnt matter anyway, mine less so, given i am retired and working in a field that seeks to make manned warfare obsolete.

Just saying things as i see it. and yeah, i'll double down, the Tejas Mk1A has better radar than the Su57.

 

[Binayak95]

Do you really think we won't be getting "kill switch" treatment from US if we bought f35?

I just said above F35 is a system no one here really understands. If it comes in, it will be hobbled by IAF itself, and our refusal to let it integrate into US systems. so we will get a fighter without any of its threat analysis and adaptive EW capabilities.
Which is why i dont think we are getting it.

 

[randombully]

No thats the point. We wont have to retrofit Indian mission computers and avionics to ANY non Russian fighter (Rafale included) because they already conform to the MILSTD 1553B.

We can configure it as is to use Indian weapons, that was the entire point.

Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad. F404 delay was entirely on HAL and MOD file pushing. Fuckers took so long that the entire line shut down. Same thing with the MTU engines for Arjuns, and the C17s. we could have gotten 7 more, but took so long that UAE of all countries snapped them up, leaving us to settle for one.

Ask the Westoids to fit russin weapons on the milstd
Then see whether they agree or not.
With our mission computers, su30mki's can fit western, indian, russian falana dikhna all types of weapons.

"Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad."
Doesn't changed the fact that delay in delivery Happened, with no clear reason given by american side, even tho morroco got it's apache delivered recently, and news that came out that biden administration held the delivery back.

 

[randombully]

IF the F15 is outdated, why is the USAF building and buying 12 squadrons worth of the new EXs? and yes, its the EX on offer.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the EX should be bought.

I am just saying its on the table and is a serious contender.

Rest of F15 models are so out dated, that ex is the first one to have "fly by wire".

 

[Binayak95]

Ask the Westoids to fit russin weapons on the milstd
Then see whether they agree or not.
With our mission computers, su30mki's can fit western, indian, russian falana dikhna all types of weapons.

"Apache delivery? IA doesnt have the crews to man them, those Apaches are sitting idle in Hyderabad."
Doesn't changed the fact that delay in delivery Happened, with no clear reason given by american side, even tho morroco got it's apache delivered recently, and news that came out that biden administration held the delivery back.

Tell me you have never seen a Russian terminal without telling me youve never seen a Russian terminal.

I am arguing with morons here.
believe what you want, youre adults (i presume)

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

IF the F15 is outdated, why is the USAF building and buying 12 squadrons worth of the new EXs? and yes, its the EX on offer.

Let me be clear, I am not saying the EX should be bought.

I am just saying its on the table and is a serious contender.

It's very likely that Dassault will pull similar shenanigans again. Their decision to partner with Anil Ambani—a complete nobody in aerospace—back in 2016 was a clear indication that they are not honest remotely about anything. There are almost a dozen companies that make aerostructures, yet Dassault wanting to take complete control of DRAL in Kanpur shows their reluctance to share any meaningful technology. That is almost on par with Chinese EV makers partnering with a construction company like Megha to make EVs when asked for a JV. Heck, the Chinese have more integrity than the French.

If we have to import, I guess F-15EX is a strong contender. Should have to look at those technologies inside it, I mean all the Avionics are superior to whatever we conceived until now, F110 is again better than what we had, my only gripe is F-15 came during Cold War era and whether it's recent variant F-15EX has Composites skin. If Boeing is intent on full ToT, Manufacturing Standards, AFP Machines and all that, it's better than dealing with Cheaters.

 

[randombully]

combined with our doctrine and warfighting experience will allow us to trump the chinks, is the hope and prayer.

Yeah about.
We don't have any experience in the type of moden aerial warfare that will take place in himalayas.
And chinks are hiring retired western pilots for years.

And truthfully, even until 2010's their airforce doctrine and training we're way worse than ours.
Not the case anymore.

View: https://youtu.be/xWTz6S5pOhU?si=wxxpT1kZylzx28DW

View: https://youtu.be/EN5ySqO1W98?si=uJvztN89zKoNREj1

 

[randombully]

Plus, from a pure historical perspective, several nations have prospered when their private entities team up with american firms to do some manufacturing, they naturally spend money and resources to do R&D and upgrades because unlike govt firms, they cant survive on taxpayer largesse. Once the aircraft is flying, they have to earn money by upgrading them and overhauling them AND developing the next thing lest they go bankrupt.

Examples being IAI, Mitsubishi and TAI.

Don't need usa for that.
Can do the same with other countries.

 

[randombully]

Tell me you have never seen a Russian terminal without telling me youve never seen a Russian terminal.

On what.
20+years old su30mki?
30+ years old mig29's?

Forget su57.
Go check the digital terminals on su35s.

I am arguing with morons here.
believe what you want, youre adults (i presume

Feeling's mutual.
Your the guy who formed an opinion on that rafale> su57, without any concrete source, just based on your experience with "decades old"Russian tech, and internet buzz.
Not even asking for a proof, just give me decent source or detailed breakdown if their avionics and tell me what makes rafale's avionics next gen?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

The SU57 is a joke of a plane.

Its not stealthy, it's radars, EW and weapons package is a generation behind the rafale and even behind what we can make here (Virupaksha and the new MkIII astra).

Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse.

Do you even know what russian have offered ?
At aero india they made it clear su57 can be AMCAnised. They are ready to integrate our own sub-systems in that all ew suit avionics suit.
We can have our eots/irst, das from mk2, virupaksha which has 2400 Gan tr modules or the newer iteration of virupaksha from data patterns with 2700 Gan tr modules. We can have our own mission computer which also reduce the hassle of integration of indigeneous weapons systems. So the issue of electronics can be easily sorted out with our indigeneous avionics suit.
We call bars of su30 mini awacs su57 with hawk I 2700 would be huge capability addition.
now don't demean indigeneous avionics and all.

-unlike rafale whose radar is even smaller than Tejas mk2s which doesn't even have e Gan yet stands no where near this AMCAnised su57.
And let's not forget we would be paying them not less than 250 million for each jet with weapons purchase which can be avoided as we have indigeneous alternatives for them.
And we can integrate any weapon hassle free in su57 unlike rafale. Anyways this is not concern here right now.

They recently offered su57 roll out from existing Nashik with few modifications in assembly line.
So it much better deal now if we consider there recent offers. And make much more sense than expensive rafale. Still it won't cost 250 Million per piece.
Su57 might not be good at stealth but it's much better than rafale. It's might have higher ir signature with current Al41 engine too.

if they're ready to this extend we can try our indigeneous RAS/RAM on it to boost stealth.

This AMCAnised su57 would atleast hold something against j20 unlike expensive rafale which can't keep up against j20.

Overall AMCAnised su57 would be much much better choice than rafale.
What happened to integration of astra mk1 ?