AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Spacemarine]

Itna pehle hua tha kya Kargil Yudh?
Sab bhul gayein kya!?

Yudh supply of weapons are different than supply of strategic crown jewels..

Weapons are byproduct of machining tools.

Why to teach someone catch a fish if you can supply fish with loads of profit

 

[Spacemarine]

Huron is having the subsidiaries at "Germany" "Canada" and "Turkey."
Why are the subsidiaries are in these three countries.

All these companies needs to invest loads of money just to be part of supply chains, Turkey Govt definitely would have invested billions to show that this component can be manufactured and sourced from Turkey cheaper .. India needs to do the same.. Invest public money in Indian companies who can start core components inside India long painful process specially when West is limiting reach of manufacturing tech. to India

 

[Suryavanshi]

It's basically Tata Jaguar, land Rover, Cummins situation.
This was talker about in the old forum. Something is better than nothing.

 

[Spacemarine]

I think the AMCA prototype we will see on Jan 2029 will be of similar build quality as Su-57 and will take another 10 years of testing to finally come out of SP

 

[Ayan Barat]

Huron is having the subsidiaries at "Germany" "Canada" and "Turkey."
Why are the subsidiaries are in these three countries.

What logic is this

Huron is into machine tools since 1850s and only in 2007 it got acquired by Jyoti...so tell me why can't they have their own subsidiaries wherever they want during these 150 years?

Also they've their subsidiaries in Canada because you need a place to sell in Americas and it can't be USA as ITAR laws would be a huge pain...so you're left with Canada.
Turkey because it's the perfect country from arms market points to view...sits right at the crossroads of Asia, Europe and Africa. Also with Turkey you get access to both NATO countries and also Russian/Chinese ones.

It's like saying why Jaguar has a showroom in China when China is our adversary and Jaguar is owned by Tata.
Yes, everything is true...but aren't there bit nuance!?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Machine tools dependency?

What is this new phenomena.

Not a new phenomenon.

India lags well behind Europe in precision machining. Despite the rise of local players, production will always be an issue.

 

[helin]

Nope not a single assembled machine in India is of quality that is required for zero error alignment required for advanced aerospace components…

India is dependent on all core components for assembly of an advanced machining tools.

CNC Controllers
Ball Screws
Linear Guides
Servo Motors
Drives
Spindles
Sensors
Encoders…

USA has ensured we dont get any modern tools
From above, even our strategic chips are manufactured from 2nd hand tools
Sourced indirectly from Israel and Japan

Does the US have an embargo policy on high-tech equipment to India?

 

[Spacemarine]

Does the US have an embargo policy on high-tech equipment to India?

Yup shadow embargo, not only in advance machinery core components but in bio tech and even Visas its easy for a chinese to get a visa to USA than Indian it started after Obama’s third term probably be continued by Trump to keep India on disadvantage.. Indians are always in surveillance if they work in crown jewel techs in west by CIA

 

[randombully]

What logic is this

Huron is into machine tools since 1850s and only in 2007 it got acquired by Jyoti...so tell me why can't they have their own subsidiaries wherever they want during these 150 years?

Also they've their subsidiaries in Canada because you need a place to sell in Americas and it can't be USA as ITAR laws would be a huge pain...so you're left with Canada.
Turkey because it's the perfect country from arms market points to view...sits right at the crossroads of Asia, Europe and Africa. Also with Turkey you get access to both NATO countries and also Russian/Chinese ones.

It's like saying why Jaguar has a showroom in China when China is our adversary and Jaguar is owned by Tata.
Yes, everything is true...but aren't there bit nuance!?

It's like saying why Jaguar has a showroom in China when China is our adversary and Jaguar is owned by Tata.

It's like saying " Why Tata has its engine production facility in china, while china is our adversary".
Or more right would be( purely hypothetical)
"Why does a company that supply hydrolic actuators for tejas has a subsidy in china that produces those actuators in china"
Beacuse fighter jets are more important than cars for national security.

 

[Ayan Barat]

View attachment 17281
It's like saying " Why Tata has its engine production facility in china, while china is our adversary".
Or more right would be( purely hypothetical)
"Why does a company that supply hydrolic actuators for tejas has a subsidy in china that produces those actuators in china"
Beacuse fighter jets are more important than cars for national security.

Spoiler: By all means RandomBully

 

[realsumo]

So, are we all in deep trouble?

 

[Spacemarine]

So, are we all in deep trouble?

Dont worry we have Russians , the best we will get is Su-57 level stealth in AMCA

 

[Suryavanshi]

So, are we all in deep trouble?

Always have been.

 

[realsumo]

Dont worry we have Russians , the best we will get is Su-57 level stealth in AMCA

They don't even have enough su-57 for their own use. Anyways, wasn't amca supposed to help indegenous manufacturing. Buying foreign jets wouldn't solve that. And, it seems that, it's already too late. China already has them, turkey was supposedly testing their prototypes, Korea and Indonesia were also together (if I am not mistaken). Perhaps even Pakistan might acquire then before us.

 

[randombully]

Dont worry we have Russians , the best we will get is Su-57 level stealth in AMCA

If we go by that italian uncle then shape is the major contributor to stealth while stealth coating and materials play a very significant but still minority role in stealth.
so Just based on shape AMCA would be more stealthy than su 57.

 

[Spacemarine]

They don't even have enough su-57 for their own use. Anyways, wasn't amca supposed to help indegenous manufacturing. Buying foreign jets wouldn't solve that. And, it seems that, it's already too late. China already has them, turkey was supposedly testing their prototypes, Korea and Indonesia were also together (if I am not mistaken). Perhaps even Pakistan might acquire then before us.

I always wondered and thought about scenarios where a stealth plane goes against a 4.5+ Gen Non Stealth supported by AWACS that we have in India.

Suppose India successfully bombed paki terror hub in Muridke, next day PAF tries to do the same as in 2019, J-35 comes close to LOC and tries to acquire a Rafale the moment J-35 tries to acquire Rafale the passive sensors will detect the source and tries to deploy decoys and shares information with other assets in area.

J-35 now if keeps on coming or try to cross LOC multiple ground and air assets will now definitely pin point the location and when J-35 shows up its rear optical sensors will definitely provide enough data to acquire J-35 for targeting,

All India requires is basically enough assets in contested area not necessarily a stealth fighters.

So if we have more Tejas Mk2 and Rafale India can handle chinese stealths on both sides … AMCA will definitely help but should not be the top priority specially when USA is making sure its delayed enough so India comes begging for F-35

 

[Ayan Barat]

So if we have more Tejas Mk2 and Rafale India can handle chinese stealths on both sides

And if I have whatever you've got my Guy, I can handle all the problems in my life. Maybe even get Nirvaan

 

[randombully]

I always wondered and thought about scenarios where a stealth plane goes against a 4.5+ Gen Non Stealth supported by AWACS that we have in India.

Suppose India successfully bombed paki terror hub in Muridke, next day PAF tries to do the same as in 2019, J-35 comes close to LOC and tries to acquire a Rafale the moment J-35 tries to acquire Rafale the passive sensors will detect the source and tries to deploy decoys and shares information with other assets in area.

J-35 now if keeps on coming or try to cross LOC multiple ground and air assets will now definitely pin point the location and when J-35 shows up its rear optical sensors will definitely provide enough data to acquire J-35 for targeting,

All India requires is basically enough assets in contested area not necessarily a stealth fighters.

So if we have more Tejas Mk2 and Rafale India can handle chinese stealths on both sides … AMCA will definitely help but should not be the top priority specially when USA is making sure its delayed enough so India comes begging for F-35

We can handle stealth on paki side, because even if they acquired j35, they can only operate small no. Of them.
Chinks on other hand are on their way to have 600+ j20's by 2030.
And by 2030 our fighter fleet strength can fall below 600, and most of our fighters will still be 4th gen, 4.5+ gen will be minority in our airforce( tejas mk1a, rafale)

 

[Spacemarine]

We can handle stealth on paki side, because even if they acquired j35, they can only operate small no. Of them.
Chinks on other hand are on their way to have 600+ j20's by 2030.
And by 2030 our fighter fleet strength can fall below 600, and most of our fighters will still be 4th gen, 4.5+ gen will be minority in our airforce( tejas mk1a, rafale)

Well we have to fight with whatever we can buy or produce… so if we are capable for create more numbers of Tejas MK1,2 create as many as we can, AMCA is still easily more than a decade away

 

[randombully]

Well we have to fight with whatever we can buy or produce… so if we are capable for create more numbers of Tejas MK1,2 create as many as we can, AMCA is still easily more than a decade away

All hope is not lost "himalayas" exist.
Even if chinks dominate the skies, our army can still hold on the defensive beacuse a mountain on top of that a cold as fuck mountain is geographically a curse for aggressor/invader.
Another thing mountains will also be used by both sides to shield their Arial assets from emery radars,awacs, this means even 4/4.5 gen jets can be pretty effective with right tactics in shallow penetration inside chinese territory.