Bureaucracy Issues (10 Viewers)

SKC said:
This sounds cool when we write in the forum, but who is going to implement this in reality?
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700 crore in assets , most likely he is holding them for many people in the office as well as his political masters

and bro already got bail . fck maybe not firing squad but atleast make it non bailable offence of something .
 
johny_baba said:

View: https://x.com/DeepikaBhardwaj/status/1908830624267317269#m
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View: https://x.com/AartiTikoo/status/1910035294809620877#m

Aarti Tikoo Singh

@AartiTikoo
17h
Why Punjab Police wants to arrest Aarti Tikoo Singh and Rohan Dua?
Dear fellow citizens of India, A while ago, a Punjab police source informed my staff @TheNewIndian_in that certain individuals in @PunjabPoliceInd plan to arrest me and my colleague @rohanduaT02 TONIGHT and frame us after our recent investigative series exposing an Indian Police Service (IPS) officer’s alleged involvement in a sex scandal. They have used this bulldozer tactic against others before. Great! As a displaced Kashmiri Pandit, I have endured brutality due to the incompetent policies of India’s powerful and corrupt authorities. As a journalist, I have faced both personal and professional persecution for questioning the deeply corrupt system on Kashmir. As if that weren’t enough, now someone in Punjab Police wants to punish me and my small team simply for doing our job professionally. What’s strange is that even though my team never identified or named the accused police officer involved in the scandal, but the same IPS officer, one ex-AAP Delhi MLA and one liquor scam accused repeatedly called my colleague pressuring us to delete the story and related posts on X. They almost grovelled before us. Why? Instead of investigating this officer or others involved in this scandal, focus on other such incidents or strikes, cleaning up their own ranks, and putting an end to sex trafficking by officials, Punjab Police is busy harassing journalists like me and Rohan who have dedicated their lives to serving the nation. Is it too much to expect that journalists like us—who have been professional and objective in both praising and questioning the authorities—will be allowed to exercise our right to press freedom without fear of reprisal? @BhagwantMann @ArvindKejriwal @AtishiAAPBravo to that female SSP of Bathinda who dared to expose the drug nexus involving a woman constable—a case that later hinted at the IPS involvement!
Editor-in-Chief & FounderAarti Tikoo Singh
Executive EditorRohan Dua
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These reservation leeching Meena scumbags became SC because of a typo occured while making the list.

www.indiatoday.in

2 Audis, farmhouse, foreign trips: Anti-corruption body busts Rajasthan official

Hariprasad Meena's alleged assets include several luxury cars, three high-end apartments, and a farmhouse. He also spent around Rs 45 lakh on foreign trips and luxury hotel stays.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

In Short

Operation 'AUDI' reveals PWD engineer's wealth 200% above income
He owns 3 high-end apartments in Jaipur, luxury cars and bike
19 bank accounts show crores in transactions
 
Ajayant Tripathi said:
I really salute your proactive action. I know its frustrating. But thats how the system has been from beginning. No one has truly rocked this ship. Nehru-Clan made sure the imeprial design remains intact. So, I am not going to talk more about it. You know it very well.

But i will say one thing the real reactivity comes from being closer to stimulus. Our power centres are away from it. I think you know that a Mayor in an Indian City do not have much power. Instead its the babu. They can overrule Mayor. These babus are only ruled by the state govt. I will limit myself here.

The good thing is the actions of the govt. has now publicly exposed depth and extent of the rot in our system. I am happy its now in full public view and their is no mask to hide behind. I just hope there are enough people who remember it and don't forget it at the time of election.

I think its a golden opportunity for the govt. to set the house right. Yes the babus are XO but they too have to follow the orders and the current circumstances afford the govt. proper shield to carry out cleansing operation.

In end what you experienced will not change. These babus will not change.

I commend the govt. in exposing them. Now i expects them to do some house cleaning. No Indian babu is going to talk about bad news. They are plain paper pushers.

More t
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counter argument i have for this, is that regular public underestimates size, scale and complexity of running an administration for our country. most of the time public speaks from sense of entitlement, as if solution is an entitlement and the babu is depriving them of it ,especially the english speaking office going crowd.

but when we speak to shop owners, business persons etc who interact more with administration at city/district and state level at regular basis. they usually speak in terms of specifics in the areas they deal with, they will be able to name people who filed petitions, public prosecutors, officers in various departments, GO number/year etc.
 
ezsasa said:
counter argument i have for this, is that regular public underestimates size, scale and complexity of running an administration for our country. most of the time public speaks from sense of entitlement, as if solution is an entitlement and the babu is depriving them of it ,especially the english speaking office going crowd.

but when we speak to shop owners, business persons etc who interact more with administration at city/district and state level at regular basis. they usually speak in terms of specifics in the areas they deal with, they will be able to name people who filed petitions, public prosecutors, officers in various departments, GO number/year etc.
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i dont understimate the challenge of running india. what i am not impressed with,is babus are very un-proactive and LITERALLY are slaves to procedure and their own narrow mandate - like they will never ever move a hair that isnt directly their job description, even if it takes 2 seconds to get it done. its almost like dealing with a shitty windows update software - it will do only what it is meant for, your options are to wait for it to do its thing or press a button and fuck around and realize its gonna do what it wants anyways. You either brute-force the system or accept the scenario.
 
GaudaNaresh said:
i dont understimate the challenge of running india. what i am not impressed with,is babus are very un-proactive and LITERALLY are slaves to procedure and their own narrow mandate - like they will never ever move a hair that isnt directly their job description, even if it takes 2 seconds to get it done. its almost like dealing with a shitty windows update software - it will do only what it is meant for, your options are to wait for it to do its thing or press a button and fuck around and realize its gonna do what it wants anyways. You either brute-force the system or accept the scenario.
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obviously that post of mine is not written with you in mind, just a generic observation.

your experience is based on a personal experience which primarily comes from being a concerned citizen/NRI which is more of a social contract category.

let me tell you one of my experiences, where there was a financial/contractual obligation in place.

this was a state govt project meeting where secretary level officers were also part of it, and a PSU bank was also represented by a officer who flew in from delhi since they had a line item as part of their deliverables. obviously a secretary rank officer sitting in a meeting is a high level meeting in govt system. this was a very serious meeting where tensions were flying high. when the we come to that bank line item, the bank wallah says we have moved a petition. everybody got confused including the secretary. here we are asking about his bank's deliverables for the next two weeks and he is talking about some petition. ultimately someone asked, what petition is he referring to, the guy says his bank has moved a petition to state govt asking for land to build a support centre. two weeks vs something that will take years to build.

but thanks to that bankwallah, everybody got into a lighter mood, and rest of the meeting went good for us.

our take away for the purpose of this discussion from this is about priorities of different departments with in the gormint system. just because we see something on the news and we assume all of gormint departments is in sync every day, which need not be the case.

canada i don't know, but i am assuming in U.S too it won't be that different. civil society groups and NGO must be playing a role there to get new things done in gormint.
 
ezsasa said:
obviously that post of mine is not written with you in mind, just a generic observation.

your experience is based on a personal experience which primarily comes from being a concerned citizen/NRI which is more of a social contract category.

let me tell you one of my experiences, where there was a financial/contractual obligation in place.

this was a state govt project meeting where secretary level officers were also part of it, and a PSU bank was also represented by a officer who flew in from delhi since they had a line item as part of their deliverables. obviously a secretary rank officer sitting in a meeting is a high level meeting in govt system. this was a very serious meeting where tensions were flying high. when the we come to that bank line item, the bank wallah says we have moved a petition. everybody got confused including the secretary. here we are asking about his bank's deliverables for the next two weeks and he is talking about some petition. ultimately someone asked, what petition is he referring to, the guy says his bank has moved a petition to state govt asking for land to build a support centre. two weeks vs something that will take years to build.

but thanks to that bankwallah, everybody got into a lighter mood, and rest of the meeting went good for us.

our take away for the purpose of this discussion from this is about priorities of different departments with in the gormint system. just because we see something on the news and we assume all of gormint departments is in sync every day, which need not be the case.

canada i don't know, but i am assuming in U.S too it won't be that different. civil society groups and NGO must be playing a role there to get new things done in gormint.
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good observation.
Canada, usa, india, uk, russia - they all meet at one level of gormint - city hall. its ALL the same exact level of efficiency everywehre. dealing with vancouver city hall is same as dealing with KMC same as dealing with NY city hall - what should take 2 hours takes 2 years and you gotta dodge like a pro dodgeball player for all the ghoos enquiries.

I dunno why this is- various nations have various levels of efficiency for national or state gormint, where dubai or singapore or germany work at bullet train speed or canada that saunters along or turtle speed of india.
But city hall ? its the one cut-paste dehatigiri everywhere on planet earth.
 
GaudaNaresh said:
good observation.
Canada, usa, india, uk, russia - they all meet at one level of gormint - city hall. its ALL the same exact level of efficiency everywehre. dealing with vancouver city hall is same as dealing with KMC same as dealing with NY city hall - what should take 2 hours takes 2 years and you gotta dodge like a pro dodgeball player for all the ghoos enquiries.

I dunno why this is- various nations have various levels of efficiency for national or state gormint, where dubai or singapore or germany work at bullet train speed or canada that saunters along or turtle speed of india.
But city hall ? its the one cut-paste dehatigiri everywhere on planet earth.
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dubai singapore are city states.

i am told, germany too is very very bureaucratic.

Policing the internet in Germany, where hate speech, insults are a crime​


View: https://youtu.be/-bMzFDpfDwc
 
Why does India recruit people into the IAS the way it does? Having people memorize a bunch of general knowledge by rote (where most topics have almost nothing to do with each other), then making that person a Jack of all Trades just because they passed one test decades ago and bouncing them around different fields which they might not have much knowledge in (we often see/hear the consequences when it comes to defense matters).

Instead, why doesn't India have people specialize in a certain category and prepare for that from the very beginning, then have them go into the specific area/field they prepared for and serve for a lifetime in it, or at the most - move around only between one or two closely related/tied areas to the original field of study? And maybe even throw in some sort of continuing education requirement and an occasional competency check/exam through which they renew their "membership"/"license" to work in the service - without which they can get thrown out?
 
Nishaanbaaz said:
Why does India recruit people into the IAS the way it does? Having people memorize a bunch of general knowledge by rote (where most topics have almost nothing to do with each other), then making that person a Jack of all Trades just because they passed one test decades ago and bouncing them around different fields which they might not have much knowledge in (we often see/hear the consequences when it comes to defense matters).
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This is because Indian Civil Service is continuation of British model of civil services, ie, generalist and permanent. In pre-independence era, civil servants were similarly recruited through an exam and given life time posting. Independent India simply chose to continue that model.

Governance was relatively easier and less complex then. But now with massive rise of technology and knowledge, every domain has become specialised. Think about any domain, agriculture, finance, steel anything. All these sectors will benefit if people with field experience and knowledge will make policies. But right now, civil services only focus on field experience.

Nishaanbaaz said:
Instead, why doesn't India have people specialize in a certain category and prepare for that from the very beginning, then have them go into the specific area/field they prepared for and serve for a lifetime in it, or at the most - move around only between one or two closely related/tied areas to the original field of study? And maybe even throw in some sort of continuing education requirement and an occasional competency check/exam through which they renew their "membership"/"license" to work in the service - without which they can get thrown out?
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This is done to avoid "concentration of power". Think of a bureaucrat, appointed on permanent position, in a single ministry. How much power will that person accumulate? Many govt committees have recommended domain specialisation for IAS officers, usually in 3 domains.

The correct approach in my view is to have a mix of the generalist and specialists, with a fixed tenure, to be renewed if performance is good. The generalists are required because they have proper field experience. They work in villages and remote areas and know the conditions of people and how various policies may impact them. A specialist who has dedicated whole his life to study may not have proper knowledge about people. For this purpose only lateral entry was introduced, but we all know what happened to that.

Also wanted to highlight that the biggest problem in India is lack of ethics and integrity in bureaucracy. For eg, I said for fixed tenure and then subsequent renewals. But think like this, who will decide and rate a bureaucrat's performance? Of course his seniors. But what if the seniors are so corrupt that they ask for money in return for good rating? Who bells the cat? This is a widespread problem in govt. A significant part of the system is rotten. You increase the fines on traffic violation? Well the traffic police will just increase the bribe amount.
 
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