Chit Chat

[trombone]

I remember those times. There were so many perks during that era: if you stay in office after 6 then you will get mandatory free snacks! Food Coupons, Free bus travel, free inter office shuttles, many more.

With time, they canceled the free bus service, then stopped giving food coupons and overnight whole canteen turned from funded to pay on your own, then they stopped inter office free shuttles too.

And re-imbursement of Cell phone and broadband bills, they became dependent on mood of the PM and DGM. Some time they approve and sometime they will cancel.​

I worked up north for a couple of years (will not id the place or co.).
Man, the facilities they had couple of decades back would easily rival the 5-star resorts these days. The in-house food was to die for!!! Breakfast, lunch and dinner were free for all employees and were expansive buffet style. Rich north indian spread and the mandatory south indian stuff too (bulk of employees were from undivided AP/TN) It was literal pampering. Once we took off for an impulsive Shimla, Chail, Kulu drive after a sumptuous Friday night dinner in office ... LOL . I remember putting on so much weight in those 2 years that i was unrecognizable to my old buddies after returning to base station!

IT folks these days can only dream of such stuff.

 

[SKC]

Business class travel and 3 star hotel stays.
For 8 months my hotel expenses to the company were more than my salary.

Those days will never come back.
my dinner would be daal + 2 rotis and costed around rs 200, this was back in 2009. That's how spoiled it was. Everything changed post Satyam scam.

Yes, it was very-very easy to get your travel bills cleared and reimbursed. heck you did not even need to furnish a pakka bill, a Katcha bill with just total amount mentioned would do the job.

You could stay in 3-star facilities with whole family and no would bat an eye. it continued till advent of GST (haye haye Mudi! ) when overnight they started asking proper GST bill for any kind of claim and started matching each and every detail put in your re-imbursement request and the bill posted in the request.​

2008 GFC had a huge role in this cost cutting.

I remember the offical work hours were only 8 hours plus 30 min lunch break till 2008. During 2008 crisis, HCL officially announce to increase the work hours to 9 hours plus 30 min break for same billing as before!
It was picked by TCS, WIPRO, Infy and then it became the standard in the IT (haye haye Shiv Nadar! )​

 

[SKC]

I worked up north for a couple of years (will not id the place or co.).
Man, the facilities they had couple of decades back would easily rival the 5-star resorts these days. The in-house food was to die for!!! Breakfast, lunch and dinner were free for all employees and were expansive buffet style. Rich north indian spread and the mandatory south indian stuff too (bulk of employees were from undivided AP/TN) It was literal pampering. Once we took off for an impulsive Shimla, Chail, Kulu drive after a sumptuous Friday night dinner in office ... LOL . I remember putting on so much weight in those 2 years that i was unrecognizable to my old buddies after returning to base station!

IT folks these days can only dream of such stuff.

 

[trombone]

I remember the offical work hours were only 8 hours plus 30 min lunch break till 2008. During 2008 crisis, HCL officially announce to increase the work hours to 9 hours plus 30 min break for same billing as before!
It was picked by TCS, WIPRO, Infy and then it became the standard in the IT (haye haye Shiv Nadar! )​

Forget Nadar. Murthy and his 70-hour work weeks is the new gold standard for the genZ bois/gals.

 

[SKC]

Well, this tells one thing:

How spoiled is the IT industry in India compared to all other sectors. We actually earn really well compared to the work we do, and others do in different sectors.

One of the few industries where people are earn upto crores!

After interacting so many who are not in IT, I realized how far back they are in terms of salaries:
One guy is HR in a non-IT company for last 12 years and his salary reached like 48K/month. he gets few allowances and reimbursement here and there.

Few others are in some manufacturing companies and even after working like 10-15 years they have reached ~60K/month.​

 

[SKC]

Forget Nadar. Murthy and his 70-hour work weeks is the new gold standard for the genZ bois/gals.

Well, this 70-hour week is their personal wish, but Nadar made 45 hours a week an Industry standard back in 2008-9.

 

[Prasad]

Forget Nadar. Murthy and his 70-hour work weeks is the new gold standard for the genZ bois/gals.

Western valued GenZ's are not team players. It is becoming more and more apparent that the new ones coming out of unis are unfit for hard work.

The 70 hour work week is extreme but when you are 22-25 and are in your first job, you should be putting in 50+ hours. That's the only way you learn.
The first 2-3 years as a fresher is when you have lot of opportunities and leeway to learn a lot of things. It's simply foolish to waste those opportunities.
As you grow in years, companies want to earn off you, than to teach you. It then is your own effort to learn new things.

So, anyone getting into IT as fresher and not putting in 50+ hours a week for first 2 years, you are wasting golden and precious time.

GenZ liberals uni graduates are waste. They are absolute pain.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Well, this 70-hour week is their personal wish, but Nadar made 45 hours a week an Industry standard back in 2008-9.

Did they actually benefit from it?
Or was it just a herd mentality.
Also what was the efficiency of those IT employees at the time? Were they more effective than the attention deficient GenZ?

 

[ezsasa]

Well, this tells one thing:

How spoiled is the IT industry in India compared to all other sectors. We actually earn really well compared to the work we do, and others do in different sectors.

One of the few industries where people are earn upto crores!

After interacting so many who are not in IT, I realized how far back they are in terms of salaries:
One guy is HR in a non-IT company for last 12 years and his salary reached like 48K/month. he gets few allowances and reimbursement here and there.

Few others are in some manufacturing companies and even after working like 10-15 years they have reached ~60K/month.​

talk to oil industry wallahs, who were basically either mech or chemical. IT wallahs will get a complex hearing about their daily billings.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Well, this tells one thing:

How spoiled is the IT industry in India compared to all other sectors. We actually earn really well compared to the work we do, and others do in different sectors.

One of the few industries where people are earn upto crores!

After interacting so many who are not in IT, I realized how far back they are in terms of salaries:
One guy is HR in a non-IT company for last 12 years and his salary reached like 48K/month. he gets few allowances and reimbursement here and there.

Few others are in some manufacturing companies and even after working like 10-15 years they have reached ~60K/month.​

Among the core companies I have heard petrochemical companies have excellent perks.

 

[SKC]

Did they actually benefit from it?
Or was it just a herd mentality.
Also what was the efficiency of those IT employees at the time? Were they more effective than the attention deficient GenZ?

As far as I know, HCL was the only company which remain in profit in both: 2008 crisis and 2012 crisis!
They did not offer discounts to their customers but instead offered some value-added services or benefits.

During 2008, average salary was ~30-40K which was huge for the time and people agreed to increase of 1 hour in shift due to fear of losing job.

I can't comment of efficient and effective ness as different people will give different analysis. Some mentions that there were far less things to cause distractions but at the same time there was far less competition too.​

 

[SKC]

talk to oil industry wallahs, who were basically either mech or chemical. IT wallahs will get a complex hearing about their daily billings.

Those were golden PSU! far too small employee base than the IT industry which employes people in millions.
You will find more people in IT earning more than the employees of Oil industry these days.​

 

[ezsasa]

Those were golden PSU! far too small employee base than the IT industry which employes people in millions.
You will find more people in IT earning more than the employees of Oil industry these days.​

one crore billing per day, i don't think so.
not regular oil jobs, specialised jobs.

 

[SKC]

Western valued GenZ's are not team players. It is becoming more and more apparent that the new ones coming out of unis are unfit for hard work.

The 70 hour work week is extreme but when you are 22-25 and are in your first job, you should be putting in 50+ hours. That's the only way you learn.
The first 2-3 years as a fresher is when you have lot of opportunities and leeway to learn a lot of things. It's simply foolish to waste those opportunities.
As you grow in years, companies want to earn off you, than to teach you. It then is your own effort to learn new things.

So, anyone getting into IT as fresher and not putting in 50+ hours a week for first 2 years, you are wasting golden and precious time.

GenZ liberals uni graduates are waste. They are absolute pain.

The GenZ has poor troubleshooting skills. Back then we could open anything and assemble them back. We could tinker around the settings in software's and find our solutions on our own with limited online help.

Nowadays with full detailed manuals, YouTube tutorials, these GenZ resources fails 8 out of 10 times to solve any issues.

You have to give them step by step commands to work on anything, if they see any change in the system not mentioned in the steps, they will pull up their hands and come back to us saying - "Sir yeh to out of syllabus ho gya kuch! aap hi batao aage!"​

 

[SKC]

one crore billing per day, i don't think so.
not regular oil jobs, specialised jobs.

That explain it all!

How many such job would be out there??

Compare total no employees in Oil companies with IT companies and then check the top1% earners in both!

 

[ezsasa]

Something we have discussed multiple times before, don't confuse TCS/Infy/HCL/Wipro with FAANG/MAANG!
Indian Big-4 are IT services providers and not the platform providers like Amazon/Apple/MS/Google/etc

Similar company in India would be Zoho Corp!​

move all this IT discussion to economy thread.

 

[Suryavanshi]

You have to give them step by step commands to work on anything, if they see any change in the system not mentioned in the steps, they will pull up their hands and come back to us saying - "Sir yeh to out of syllabus ho gya kuch! aap hi batao aage!"

While there is more material today there is also a lot of complexity in the tools we are using.

Java se 8 was release in 2013 before that java was very crude and framework weren't very complex.
Come 2009 Java script took to the mainstream and you had gazillion libraries out of nowhere. Demand shifted towards web services and it was a ever evolving field. By the time you become comfortable with one library three new version were released sometimes not even facilitating backward integration. IT as a whole became too complex after 2010.

It services weren't just about facilitating data warehousing and transactions, it expanded into precision analysis and data driven approach to boost sales.

IT itself created demand for its own IT services requirement which inturn depends upon other IT services and so on.

Dependency hell literally.

CRUDE things became complex

For parallel I will say we went from building spitfiers ww2 jet to building f22 in just a span of 2 decades.

 

[SKC]

While there is more material today there is also a lot of complexity in the tools we are using.

Java se 8 was release in 2013 before that java was very crude and framework weren't very complex.
Come 2009 Java script took to the mainstream and you had gazillion libraries out of nowhere. Demand shifted towards web services and it was a ever evolving field. By the time you become comfortable with one library three new version were released sometimes not even facilitating backward integration. IT as a whole became too complex after 2010.

It services weren't just about facilitating data warehousing and transactions, it expanded into precision analysis and data driven approach to boost sales.

IT itself created demand for its own IT services requirement which inturn depends upon other IT services and so on.

Dependency hell literally.

CRUDE things became complex

For parallel I will say we went from building spitfiers ww2 jet to building f22 in just a span of 2 decades.

Yes, that is true.

But I am not referring to this. Your regular stuff, setting up your system, adding VDI, printers, etc. on your laptop/desktop/thin client etc.

Though you have new versions of Java, .Net, php available a lot of code still uses ages old frameworks and versions. With time we are upgrading to new platform but for that also, you need to investigate the existing application code.

New guys have trouble checking the existing code and understand the logic too. Have to schedule calls with them to find out what is happening in code.​

 

[shade2]

Yes, that is true.

But I am not referring to this. Your regular stuff, setting up your system, adding VDI, printers, etc. on your laptop/desktop/thin client etc.

Though you have new versions of Java, .Net, php available a lot of code still uses ages old frameworks and versions. With time we are upgrading to new platform but for that also, you need to investigate the existing application code.

New guys have trouble checking the existing code and understand the logic too. Have to schedule calls with them to find out what is happening in code.​

The GenZ has poor troubleshooting skills. Back then we could open anything and assemble them back. We could tinker around the settings in software's and find our solutions on our own with limited online help.

Nowadays with full detailed manuals, YouTube tutorials, these GenZ resources fails 8 out of 10 times to solve any issues.

You have to give them step by step commands to work on anything, if they see any change in the system not mentioned in the steps, they will pull up their hands and come back to us saying - "Sir yeh to out of syllabus ho gya kuch! aap hi batao aage!"​

How did such dhakkans get hired?
I was the senior of a certain guy who used to call me everytime something out of syllabus happened, so i had to spoonfeed him the fixes everytime.
Later i realized he is just lazy and not stupid so i used to avoid his calls and ignore his messages.
Then he started fixing most of the issues in his tasks himself

 

[SKC]

How did such dhakkans get hired?
I was the senior of a certain guy who used to call me everytime something out of syllabus happened, so i had to spoonfeed him the fixes everytime.
Later i realized he is just lazy and not stupid so i used to avoid his calls and ignore his messages.
Then he started fixing most of the issues in his tasks himself

During covid, one could get hired if they have just mentioned the technology name in their CV. Few in my friend circles got new job like this: they got call from recruiter:
Recruiter: Hey! do you know Java
Friend: yes
Recruiter: Which versions?
Friend: Mar Java, Mit Java, Lut Java, Main Sadke Java!
Recruiter: Hired! salary kitni loge?​