CI/CT Operations

Forgot to ask , couple of days ago some one posted that we lost a dozen soliders in 21 days , can some one explain that?? what we learnt in news was 4-5 max.
 
Baseplate said:

View: https://x.com/akki_bauer22_/status/1825039391217361214

You know this makes good sense .
Do if fw with it ....nope , but I get the reasoning
Click to expand...

This is what a weak nation thinks like
The reasoning behind this is we don't have supreme gap in terms of conventional capabilities wrt Pakistan
Yes we do have upper edge but it's not that significant that porkies can't match with enough capital and support
Despite being a 10 times bigger nation if u compare our conventional capabilities to them it's not proportional
And above that we have a giant threat called china
When u depend on enemy nation's population to be your weapon to counter them then sorry no one is weaker than u
And above it u are compensating with repeated ambushes beheading is utterly shameful
Ur capabilities should be to completely dominate ur enemy conventionally but for that u need huge stick of weapons and MIC
 
jaijaganath said:
This is what a weak nation thinks like
The reasoning behind this is we don't have supreme gap in terms of conventional capabilities wrt Pakistan
Yes we do have upper edge but it's not that significant that porkies can't match with enough capital and support
Despite being a 10 times bigger nation if u compare our conventional capabilities to them it's not proportional
And above that we have a giant threat called china
When u depend on enemy nation's population to be your weapon to counter them then sorry no one is weaker than u
And above it u are compensating with repeated ambushes beheading is utterly shameful
Ur capabilities should be to completely dominate ur enemy conventionally but for that u need huge stick of weapons and MIC
Click to expand...
Brother I understand your feelings.. but indian army acting rn would mean the whole web created by R&AW in sindh, balochistan and KPK with taliban would mean nothing.. you know Pakistanis hate their army to the core but the hate for india is bigger.. they'll back their army and the insurgency network will take a blow if they didn't got any local support... the only thing india can do is execute a well planned clandestine op without even pakistan knowing about it. The operators should be back in udhampur after blowing up the terrorists camps in POK to smithereens before pakistan even gets a hint about india planning an op like this. But I fear indian army has recently lost that capability due to better surveillance by porkis hence we can't do anything instead of fighting insurgency on our own land
 
jaijaganath said:
This is what a weak nation thinks like
The reasoning behind this is we don't have supreme gap in terms of conventional capabilities wrt Pakistan
Yes we do have upper edge but it's not that significant that porkies can't match with enough capital and support
Despite being a 10 times bigger nation if u compare our conventional capabilities to them it's not proportional
And above that we have a giant threat called china
When u depend on enemy nation's population to be your weapon to counter them then sorry no one is weaker than u
And above it u are compensating with repeated ambushes beheading is utterly shameful
Ur capabilities should be to completely dominate ur enemy conventionally but for that u need huge stick of weapons and MIC
Click to expand...
True
But gov is also hellbent on conducting elections in j&k . Administration situation in j&k is in a very bad state .
So they want to bottle it up until elections are completed safely
 
lexCommando said:
Brother I understand your feelings.. but indian army acting rn would mean the whole web created by R&AW in sindh, balochistan and KPK with taliban would mean nothing.. you know Pakistanis hate their army to the core but the hate for india is bigger.. they'll back their army and the insurgency network will take a blow if they didn't got any local support... the only thing india can do is execute a well planned clandestine op without even pakistan knowing about it. The operators should be back in udhampur after blowing up the terrorists camps in POK to smithereens before pakistan even gets a hint about india planning an op like this. But I fear indian army has recently lost that capability due to better surveillance by porkis hence we can't do anything instead of fighting insurgency on our own land
Click to expand...
We must be superior in every sense atleast in military spectrum wrt Pakistan
Our conventional capabilities need a mega boost that can act as deterrent towards such attacks
Coming our network I don't believe in unknown gunman theory
Atmost our network and influence can support Baluchistan movement and constrained in that region
Whatever you are saying that the practical solution but we shouldn't be in this situation at all and that was my point
We should have huge stockpiles of arms, ammunitions and weapons
We should have huge MIC churning required equipments during war
We should given huge orders to domestic industry
We should have built a competent military
But now the solution is to sit absorb all hits assuming that Pakistan will explode
 
jaijaganath said:
This is what a weak nation thinks like
The reasoning behind this is we don't have supreme gap in terms of conventional capabilities wrt Pakistan
Yes we do have upper edge but it's not that significant that porkies can't match with enough capital and support
Despite being a 10 times bigger nation if u compare our conventional capabilities to them it's not proportional
And above that we have a giant threat called china
When u depend on enemy nation's population to be your weapon to counter them then sorry no one is weaker than u
And above it u are compensating with repeated ambushes beheading is utterly shameful
Ur capabilities should be to completely dominate ur enemy conventionally but for that u need huge stick of weapons and MIC
Click to expand...
Modi is not increasing our budget to catch up to china and bring a superiority against china.

Why we are not attacking now is that US is playing games against us and if we react China might indulge too coz remember its summer months.
 
COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
Modi is not increasing our budget to catch up to china and bring a superiority against china.

Why we are not attacking now is that US is playing games against us and if we react China might indulge too coz remember its summer months.
Click to expand...
Ofc we can't react now but ambushes were happening past 3 years
3 winters have passed

My entire point was we should have developed the conventional capabilities to completely annihilate Pakistan only that thing could have deterred such low level attacks
But we don't have such domination
What I am saying is these efforts should have begun long time ago but sadly we are not pursuing it even now
Yes mudiji has his own faults but it doesn't only lie on him we had multiple PM DM still situation hasn't changed
What would PM be it bjp or cong would do if military doesn't want to procure domestic weapons
What can they do if military doesn't have motivation to develop MIC and constantly give smaller orders and constrain the industry
What can they do if military returns the money if they can't import
There is definitely lack of motivation by our dehati politicians and bureaucrats but even our military lacks motivation to completely settle their threats coz afterall they will face the threat
 
jaijaganath said:
Ofc we can't react now but ambushes were happening past 3 years
3 winters have passed

My entire point was we should have developed the conventional capabilities to completely annihilate Pakistan only that thing could have deterred such low level attacks
But we don't have such domination
What I am saying is these efforts should have begun long time ago but sadly we are not pursuing it even now
Yes mudiji has his own faults but it doesn't only lie on him we had multiple PM DM still situation hasn't changed
What would PM be it bjp or cong would do if military doesn't want to procure domestic weapons
What can they do if military doesn't have motivation to develop MIC and constantly give smaller orders and constrain the industry
What can they do if military returns the money if they can't import
There is definitely lack of motivation by our dehati politicians and bureaucrats but even our military lacks motivation to completely settle their threats coz afterall they will face the threat
Click to expand...
Ideally,

Our sf should be doing cross border raids without making it to news and keeping a poker face.
 
jaijaganath said:
We must be superior in every sense atleast in military spectrum wrt Pakistan
Our conventional capabilities need a mega boost that can act as deterrent towards such attacks
Coming our network I don't believe in unknown gunman theory
Atmost our network and influence can support Baluchistan movement and constrained in that region
Whatever you are saying that the practical solution but we shouldn't be in this situation at all and that was my point
We should have huge stockpiles of arms, ammunitions and weapons
We should have huge MIC churning required equipments during war
We should given huge orders to domestic industry
We should have built a competent military
But now the solution is to sit absorb all hits assuming that Pakistan will explode
Click to expand...
Maybe look at this chart & figure out which of these Ministries should be stripped of their funds & diverted towards defence?
1000035946.jpg
I am sure there are threads on topics spanning across all these Ministries. And people whining, on how more money should be spent on those areas as well.

Money is the solution to all our problems. Sadly it is available in finite amount.

When it comes to capital utilitarian.

The Military can't go on a spending spree if they have excess funds or even repurpose unused funds on it's own. It has to be authorised by the CGDA (controller general of defence accounts).

And for that to happen the entire process has to go through the open tender route ie issuing of RFI and so on. Which generally takes more than an year.

Generally most of the time, the only reason for funds not being utilised by the ministries is delay in supply of existing orders in which case the funds get locked & returned to MoF at the end of the financial year.
 
Chandra said:
Maybe look at this chart & figure out which of these Ministries should be stripped of their funds & diverted towards defence?
View attachment 7045
I am sure there are threads on topics spanning across all these Ministries. And people whining, on how more money should be spent on those areas as well.

Money is the solution to all our problems. Sadly it is available in finite amount.

When it comes to capital utilitarian.

The Military can't go on a spending spree if they have excess funds or even repurpose unused funds on it's own. It has to be authorised by the CGDA (controller general of defence accounts).

And for that to happen the entire process has to go through the open tender route ie issuing of RFI and so on. Which generally takes more than an year.

Generally most of the time, the only reason for funds not being utilised by the ministries is delay in supply of existing orders in which case the funds get locked & returned to MoF at the end of the financial year.
Click to expand...
Money is not the issue if spent efficiently
I get the fact that money is reserved for a particular acquisition and delay in supply or supply chain issue causes blockage of funds but those can be diverted
Just like we did in 2022-23 when money was diverted to other acquisitions as we couldn't pay Russians as they halted supply due to war
It was turning point in our acquisition history
Efficient spending can give wonderful results
 
jaijaganath said:
Money is not the issue if spent efficiently
I get the fact that money is reserved for a particular acquisition and delay in supply or supply chain issue causes blockage of funds but those can be diverted
Just like we did in 2022-23 when money was diverted to other acquisitions as we couldn't pay Russians as they halted supply due to war
It was turning point in our acquisition history
Efficient spending can give wonderful results
Click to expand...
Financial dealings face a lot of bureaucratic redtapism in Gov. Departments.

Once the sanction order is passed. The funds in the Departmental account gets locked until the order is supplied. It cannot be repurposed until the deadline for the order is passed or they get written response from supplier about a possible delay leading to cancellation.

In case of regular purchases. The system automatically selects the L1 bidder. If any purchase other than the L1 has to be done. It has to go through a hectic approval process from someone equivalent to a Commissioner. (The person can face show cause or criminal investigation in case of favouritism)

So People generally stick to L1 now. (Supposedly there was a time before 2014 when favouritism played a big role in these cases)

This is the general process for regular purchases amounting to maybe a couple of crores in total in each Unit.

But even with all these checks in place we could have still be able to make world class equipments available to our soldiers through standardization of supplies.

Maybe standardise the former instead of the latter.
1000036127.jpg
I really like the Bullet proof vests used by the Indonesian military.
1000036128.jpg

But are we ready for the exponential increase in expenditure?

Maybe we are ! Considering we dump millions on foreign equipments. But then again it depends on the spending power of the Officer in charge.

Generally PPE doesn't make it to the top priority list & so the purchase has to happen through the automatic route which leads to such disappointing outcome.

Standardisation is the only way forward.
 
Last edited:
Chandra said:
Financial dealings face a lot of bureaucratic redtapism in Gov. Departments.

Once the sanction order is passed. The funds in the Departmental account gets locked until the order is supplied. It cannot be repurposed until the deadline for the order is passed or they get written response from supplier about a possible delay leading to cancellation.

In case of regular purchases. The system automatically selects the L1 bidder. If any purchase other than the L1 has to be done. It has to go through a hectic approval process from someone equivalent to a Commissioner. (The person can face show cause or criminal investigation in case of favouritism)

So People generally stick to L1 now. (Supposedly there was a time before 2014 when favouritism played a big role in these cases)

This is the general process for regular purchases amounting to maybe a couple of crores in total in each Unit.

But even with all these checks in place we could have still be able to make world class equipments available to our soldiers through standardization of supplies.

Maybe standardise the former instead of the latter.
View attachment 7065
I really like the Bullet proof vests used by the Indonesian military.
View attachment 7066

But are we ready for the exponential increase in expenditure?

Maybe we are ! Considering we dump millions on foreign equipments. But then again it depends on the spending power of the Officer in charge.

Generally PPE doesn't make it to the top priority list & so the purchase has to happen through the automatic route which leads to such disappointing outcome.

Standardisation is the only way forward.
Click to expand...
Yes for such financial diversion need direction from top most babus
Big ticket purchases are mess and govt's repeated policy changes hav not brought drastic results though be it import or screwdriver or indigenous
Tbh L1 system is very much discouraging for industry
Coming to ppe and standardization
The pic u posted belongs to kopassus if I remember correctly it's old ig by 8 years now kopassus have adopted pc in mass and way more advanced than para sf
Their infantry usually prefer molle based vests but few specialized units such as their airborne ones use these armour gaurd vests
My point is they are very realistic with their requirements
In our case u definitely remember smpp bpj that was showcased as finsas is crap no sane person will wear it during war forget about RR or ghataks
When such things will be inducted and will not be accepted then personnel will switch to different sources this leading to de-standardization
It's not like smpp doesn't have a modular product but this is what our high level officers choose after deliberate discussions and trails
Nothing can be done in such situation
Effective procurement is necessary and it doesn't related with money
U can buy effectively with the same amount
I am not saying give pc to every infantry person but modular vests exists
Bcoz after few years when they will get complains and they will have to go for another round of procurement
 
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