CI/CT Operations

[Zoid Raptor]

View: https://x.com/manishindiatv/status/1856224391954096410

How do we know they're SSG! Are we trying to hide our incompetency by mentioning "SSG" for the feel good factor that we lost our men to paki elite SOF and not to some rag-tag militia

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

This political assholery is beyond my understanding

Aaj GDP nahi hai... so we are scared to go to war as it will harm our prospects

Kal GDP hogi... then we will scared of losing all the physical assets we had created in a war... still we won't fight

Ye saale GDP GDP karte reh jaayenge... gaand mara jaani hai in later part of this decade

We will bleed tears of blood from our knees.

युद्ध नहीं जिनके जीवन में
वे भी बहुत अभागे होंगे
या तो प्रण को तोड़ा होगा
या फिर रण से भागे होंगे।

 

[Brood Father]

A naive opinion but I think slowly India is focusing more in IOR than mountains.

So we may see casualties piling up until boiling point is reached which will prompt GOI to respond and things will go quiet for sometime before this cycle starts again ..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/manishindiatv/status/1856224391954096410

Why dont we drone bomb their posts on Loc?

 

[mcpo117]

Why dont we drone bomb their posts on Loc?

Seriously? We effectively shoot down or neutralize their drones coming across the border. If we try the same we'll also fail. Bombs won't make it to the target.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Seriously? We effectively shoot down or neutralize their drones coming across the border. If we try the same we'll also fail. Bombs won't make it to the target.

Why not posts are just infront of each other…even terrorist camps can be taken down

 

[ArjunMK1A]

A naive opinion but I think slowly India is focusing more in IOR than mountains.

So we may see casualties piling up until boiling point is reached which will prompt GOI to respond and things will go quiet for sometime before this cycle starts again ..

IOR comes under Navy. It does not make sense why we are getting ratioed in Jungles of J&K.

The real reason outdated tactics meet the new threat we are getting shafted. Unless we changed our approach this will be the scenario in J&K.

 

[shade2]

IOR comes under Navy. It does not make sense why we are getting ratioed in Jungles of J&K.

The real reason outdated tactics meet the new threat we are getting shafted. Unless we changed our approach this will be the scenario in J&K.

"new" threat is from the past year plus some months
On old forum and new suggestions have been made on tactics improvement by BLoOdY CiViLiAnS but what should we do if UN Genrols feel nothing about their men dying needlessly?

 

[ArjunMK1A]

"new" threat is from the past year plus some months
On old forum and new suggestions have been made on tactics improvement by BLoOdY CiViLiAnS but what should we do if UN Genrols feel nothing about their men dying needlessly?

Well we need the following and I am dumping an photo tour. Photos are representative.



That pointy stuff at the top of vehicle is needed.

We need our Jawan like this.


Not you Dubai realtor.



Like this.


We need freedom, democracy from air.




We need Big Boss in the air moving from Jammu Airport to Srinagar airport.



Not you Israeli masquerading like Indian.

This pure blooded Kannada speaking anti Hindi guy.




Carrying an Gujarati made sweet at his hands.




We need soldiers who fight at night effortlessly.



Not you Salmon BHOII.



Like this NVG wearing guy above.


Our troops should do recce in this forest area to find possible hideouts. This is the time consuming but the output map we are getting will be goldmine, where we can grid lock them and try to take them out easily.



To be continued.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Contd.

We need to strike terror launchpads like below.



With this accidental launch.




To achieve this we need the Priest King.

Not this "This is not era of war Babaji"

Hey you..,,,,,,,,,,
Wake up from the dream. See the Indian Armed forces.



Depression continues...................................

 

[Suryavanshi]

"new" threat is from the past year plus some months
On old forum and new suggestions have been made on tactics improvement by BLoOdY CiViLiAnS but what should we do if UN Genrols feel nothing about their men dying needlessly?

Be a devil advocate for once and try to think it through.
Perhaps we have reached a limit for CI CT ops in Deep mountain Jungles.

Tangos are eliminated quickly once they enter urban, semi urban or even rural areas.
drones and corodne do the trick.

What about the forest which is their ultimate shield?

Is there any other country that carry put Ops against terrorists in such terrain? Murican mostly fought in open lands of Afghanistan and Cave mountain system. They would use air force and bomb targets in plain areas once they had determined the approximately perimeter of terrorist activity. Same in mountains and even they struggled there. war was all about finding out the position of enemy through gun fights and bombing them from air.

Say can you do the same here?
Drones are useless since they can't help but do basic scouting of the area.
Cordones are useless since jungle obstructs visibility thus giving terrorist chance to escape without getting caught visually.
No Armour can be brought to Forests.

Manually searching is the only way hence no advantage to our side beside headcount and tactical advantage.

There is nothing armchair civilians can come up with to solve the issue.

There is a argument that our security forces do not use nvg at night, but is there a confirmation? Maybe they use it and still cannot spot and engage terrorists.

No amount of Gucci gear will help in jungle.

One solution is to just shave of the jungle and establish a 100 m clear perimeter on LoC that way terrorist can be intercepted with visual conformation.

 

[Anants]

Look guys one thing I think is - its the impatient to get results and constant media and SJW glare tying up their hands is one of the more bigger reasons other than equipment. I am quite perplexed to see drone videos of Tangos yet no one use small Kamikaze drone to eliminate tangos then and there? Are Kamikazi drones more expensive than Carl Gustav round + multiple AK bullets pumped into nothing + possible cost of loosing precious Jawan?

 

[Suryavanshi]

Look guys one thing I think is - its the impatient to get results and constant media and SJW glare tying up their hands is one of the more bigger reasons other than equipment. I am quite perplexed to see drone videos of Tangos yet no one use small Kamikaze drone to eliminate tangos then and there? Are Kamikazi drones more expensive than Carl Gustav round + multiple AK bullets pumped into nothing + possible cost of loosing precious Jawan?

See this is where the PUBG expert accusation comes in, perhaps there are circumstances which prevent this. No afsar ever answered our questions so there is no clarity, perhaps there is a reason that if we knew we wouldn't bring this up.


We never really got any report on how the terrorist are eliminated as secondary sources we just have books that are vague about the details of operation.

This is all we know.

>Operation X begins, X amount of tangos are holed up in X location.
>Area is cordoned of.
>X para SF enters the perimeter.
>X terrorist killed.

Other than that we know nothing.

We get one or two videos where Jawans are Doing suppression fire on buildings that's all.

With the scarcity of information why are we so quick to make assumption?

 

[Anants]

See this is where the PUBG expert accusation comes in, perhaps there are circumstances which prevent this. No afsar ever answered our questions so there is no clarity, perhaps there is a reason that if we knew we wouldn't bring this up.


We never really got any report on how the terrorist are eliminated as secondary sources we just have books that are vague about the details of operation.

This is all we know.

>Operation X begins, X amount of tangos are holed up in X location.
>Area is cordoned of.
>X para SF enters the perimeter.
>X terrorist killed.

Other than that we know nothing.

We get one or two videos where Jawans are Doing suppression fire on buildings that's all.

With the scarcity of information why are we so quick to make assumption?

My post is specifically of videos and screengrabs of DJi drones which show terrorist in prone positions and otherwise in encounter. You may have more idea about PubG. Yeah conceded - we dont know why Army did not go for Kamikaze method - but I am saying right now - IIRC only grenade throwing drones were seen in some ops once or twice but not Kamikaze drones. We are primarily using drones DJI or Netra for recce but would not a Kamikazi drone be more effective? Given what looks like Blast radius is usually equal to more or less grenade (as seen in videos or RUsso-Ukro war)?

I am in no way implying drone is a one solution that fits all situation. No. Drones are useless in Dense Jungle warfare unless mechanical dogs (like the one @Ayan Barat posted) or newspace indoor/ jungle scanning drones can be employed after more hit and trial.

 

[Ayan Barat]

(like the one @Ayan Barat posted)

My Robotic Kukur mentioned!!!

By the way, your idea of using kamikaze drones is absolutely legit and can be very easily used. A medium sized FPV drone with a small warhead (even 500g PBXN-5 in carbon fibre casing so that you don't get collateral damage due to shrapnel, should be more than enough) and bigger battery can be an extremely potent weapon. You get intel of Tangos or there's a contact and you send this FPV drone instead of regular DJIs. It does usual surveillance and then if engagement can be done then this same drone dives in to easily neutralize the target. And if unfortunately it's not possible then it'll simply return to base like any DJI. As for the problem of jungle; one can easily find videos of Ukrainian FPV navigating through multiple rooms in a house to destroy a Russian surveillance station or Chinese drone swarms effortlessly maneuvering through thick forest.

It's just sad that we've still not used this concept.

 

[samsaptaka]

Contd.

We need to strike terror launchpads like below.
View attachment 15193


With this accidental launch.

View attachment 15194


To achieve this we need the Priest King.
View attachment 15195
Not this "This is not era of war Babaji"
View attachment 15196
Hey you..,,,,,,,,,,
Wake up from the dream. See the Indian Armed forces.
View attachment 15197


Depression continues...................................

LoL should have kept Yogiji's pic below Maulana's

See this is where the PUBG expert accusation comes in, perhaps there are circumstances which prevent this. No afsar ever answered our questions so there is no clarity, perhaps there is a reason that if we knew we wouldn't bring this up.


We never really got any report on how the terrorist are eliminated as secondary sources we just have books that are vague about the details of operation.

This is all we know.

>Operation X begins, X amount of tangos are holed up in X location.
>Area is cordoned of.
>X para SF enters the perimeter.
>X terrorist killed.

Other than that we know nothing.

We get one or two videos where Jawans are Doing suppression fire on buildings that's all.

With the scarcity of information why are we so quick to make assumption?

My post is specifically of videos and screengrabs of DJi drones which show terrorist in prone positions and otherwise in encounter. You may have more idea about PubG. Yeah conceded - we dont know why Army did not go for Kamikaze method - but I am saying right now - IIRC only grenade throwing drones were seen in some ops once or twice but not Kamikaze drones. We are primarily using drones DJI or Netra for recce but would not a Kamikazi drone be more effective? Given what looks like Blast radius is usually equal to more or less grenade (as seen in videos or RUsso-Ukro war)?

I am in no way implying drone is a one solution that fits all situation. No. Drones are useless in Dense Jungle warfare unless mechanical dogs (like the one @Ayan Barat posted) or newspace indoor/ jungle scanning drones can be employed after more hit and trial.

Oh I know what the answer from genrols will be - "this will cause escalation and make the yahoos also use kamikaze drones on us resulting in more casualties ! "

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/dauntless_ops/status/1856961600638349400?s=46

 

[OutForVendetta]

It's going to be a hear-me-out post, so read at your own risk
---------------------------------------​

*Udhampur Air Base has No. 153 Helicopter Unit with Mi-17s
*Keep two Mi-17s ready with atleast one always being on Quick Reaction Alert
*Mi-17s are perfect for this as they can carry good amount of people together with heavy loads
*Have 3x six-man teams of your favourite Tier-1 operators.
*Together with 2x snipers (SAKO) and 2x gunners (MAG)
*Add one rocket pod; in case of cover or empty building it'll come handy.
*Another advantage of Mi-17; drop tanks. It'll greatly increase your on station time
*As soon as there's confirmation of hostile activities, you take-off. If weather is not that bad then you'd be anywhere in less than half an hour. Way faster than ground forces and a proper CASO setup
*You have powerful IRs and thermals on the heli so jungle, foliage or rough terrain shouldn't be any advantage for the terrorists. But more importantly you've altitude on your side, you'll get unmatched surveillance capabilities.
*Given the usual loadout of 5.56/7.62 with terrorist the helicopter would be way out of any engagement range.
*But the door gunners and snipers could easily engage them with 338LM or even 7.62x51mm. You also have rockets which can be used if there's no chance of collateral damage.
*If there's absolutely no other option then up to 18 soldiers can fast rope down to engage them or track them on foot.

A reference for what I'm trying to say
View attachment 14961

-----------------------​

Now tell me what all will be the problems in this idea.
One that I'm already aware of is that this whole scheme would lose all its advantages in an urban built-up area with possibilities of hostage.

My 2 cents : ( everything I say, i say as a noob civilian who knows little about how actual operations are conducted in J&K, so veterans or people who know how these kind of operations are carried out, feel free to enlighten or criticise )

1) Helicopter insertions need to be increased. Terrorists ambush our troops, run away and after 2023 Rajouri, prepare an ambush for approaching units. Now almost all of the ambushes post 2023 have been on hill tracks where even the units responding to the attacks will take good amount of time to reach the spot. Time which is sufficient for pigs to hide and lay ambush. Heli insertions can mitigate this, right ? Drop in troops, send troops in whichever direction they intend to go and then return and taxi more troops to whichever desired location.

2) the noise from the chopper is enough to wake up entire valleys. But that can be countered using fake heli-runs across multiple locations to confuse enemy about the location of actual drops. Americans have done this during the entirety of Afghanistan invasion.

3) Now, the biggest issue is heli taking fire from terrorists. Hellfire pointed out on twitter way back, that perhaps of we introduce gunships in encounters, it won't be very surprising for pigs to introduce Stingers. They've done it during Kargil. They don't need to carry Stingers everywhere, just use it once and if that results in downing of a chopper, congratulations. You've hit the morale of the troop and have handed over a strategic win for pigs.

4) Regarding the surveillance using SAR & FLIR, are choppers necessary for that ? I mean even unmanned rotary aircraft and fixed wing UAV should've been doing this after every encounter.

5) In my opinion, just like we have a Rashtriya Rifles type of CI/CT force which operates in grids, by now we should also have had an UAV grid for surveillance across entire J&K, Punjab, Myanmar and Bangladesh border, equipped with all the fancy gadgets.

6) Regarding your suggestion of shooting from Helis using Mini guns or snipers, not possible or very practical. Sniping from choppers only seems practical when you have the pinpoint location of the pigs, otherwise if you only have a window of the possible location of the enemy, then how long are u going to engage the enemy ? How many rounds will you fire before hitting a pig ?

7) and like I said, if the enemy is in the line of sight of a chopper borne sniper, how long before the chopper itself is in the range of a Stingers ? They only need one hit and the entire heli based operations may be asked to be put on hold by administration.

8) i don't think Modi and India using helicopter gunships for rocket runs would be ideal when the Indian administration has been saying since the last 10 years the "everything is normal in Kashmir now". The sight of dark clouds and forests lit up won't exactly send the message of "Normalcy in Kashmir post removal of Article 370", no.matter how good your state propaganda machine is.

9) even if GoI goes ahead with the heli based sniper scheme, do we have good enough snipers (not trying to be condescending but that type of operations require very competent snipers which I don't think we have. Nor do I see GoI trying to fund any program to train such snipers.

10) I've always wanted to know that before the fence was laid across the LoC, when groups of 20-30 pigs crossing back and forth the border wasnt uncommon, how did the SF's mix with the local population after growing beards and wearing traditional Kashmiri attire ? I've read the SF teams would mix with the local population, carry out ops both within and beyond home soil and that our operators would go 10-20 days on such ops.
Can't we continue with such ops now ?


Last question but off topic :

The Kashmiri Muslim population has made a business of giving shelter to foreign pigs and then ratting them out to the army for money. Have Muslims around Jammu become so radicalised that they won't rat out Paki pigs ? If so, why ? Because since 2023 Rajouri ambush, all I've seen are attacks around Jammu. Only a handful.of encounters in Kashmir valley proper and some has resulted in killing of pigs. So what magic spell have former SSG troop cast over the Jammu population ? Or is it that the Gujjar-Bakarwaal nexus is completely in bed with Pak.

Or the simple answer that always stares in the face of hindus ? Muslims want to slit our throats, no matter which year we're in,.no matter how much funding goes to J&K, no matter how much you please the Muslim population !

Sorry for the long rant.

 

[OutForVendetta]

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1855948498694291778


View: https://x.com/yaiphaba07/status/1855933316483969089

11 Kuki militants killed by CRPF, 1 jawan injured.

In the video showing dead body of Kuki's, from the shouting I assume they are calling for their fellow soldier to run over to the rest of the team and there seems to be an open area in between both the parties ? I'm not a soldier but should there be only 1 voice yelling at the troop, giving him commands of what to do ? Playing only the audio minus the video and I can absolutely picture myself hearing some uncles yelling at each other during some dispute in my locality.

 

[OutForVendetta]

Can you identify the AK type ?

Kukis are having a massive meltdown, this won't go smoothly. Expect retaliation. They have amassed a lot of volunteers and arms from Myanmar and started thinking of themselves as hot shots.


View: https://x.com/manipur_police/status/1855980506166489224


View: https://x.com/manipur_police/status/1855980672177111209