DRDO and PSU's

[Abtron3]

Hoping this is the final test.

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1823245054531506648?t=nEQkUW1PFBJcy1zyZHlgDw&s=19

Whole project got shafted because Indian army wanted the missile with minimum range of less than 500M.

 

[DumbPilot]

View: https://x.com/UTrendAlert/status/1820874943716004153?t=Un7Xtxf9OIe_Ea1AaMkRhg&s=19

can be the literal base for a modern network centric warfare for the infantryman. However wouldn't just handing an integrated tablet to the platoon/company commander do the same?

 

[Hawkeye]

For f*ck's sake man just induct it already, this thing is in the making for over 10 years now.

This project is a prime example of everything that is wrong with DRDO and Army.

Even after having prior experience with ATGM (from NAG project) it took these nincompoops 10 years to make an ATGM, and it's not even inducted yet.
I fear it will have the same fate as NAG, after completing it's Developmental trial by some miracle, it will fall short in Army trials and improvements would be demanded and the whole fuckin cycle of testing and trials will start all over again

For reference Turks started work on their Man portable ATGM at the same time, and theirs is already inducted in Turkish Land Forces

Here is a timeline of both the project to let you understand the gravity of their Incompetence.

	MPATGM	Karaok
Project Sanction	2015	2016
Testing	2018-2023	2020-22
User Trials	2024- God Knows When	No clear Info
Induction	God knows When	Ordered in 2022

Oh and the worst thing is this thing has the same range as Karaok even though it's Missile+CLU weight is 29kg and Karaok's is 16 kg

It's a tragedy in India where the trials take painstaking much many years than the development and rollout of product itself. Just name any Indian product in recent time and the trial period, though magically foreign emergency imports complete their trials surprisingly fast.

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1823373931270541640?t=K3rrUmQil9rStOYv5oREEQ&s=19

 

[Clawreed]

For f*ck's sake man just induct it already, this thing is in the making for over 10 years now.

This project is a prime example of everything that is wrong with DRDO and Army.

Even after having prior experience with ATGM (from NAG project) it took these nincompoops 10 years to make an ATGM, and it's not even inducted yet.
I fear it will have the same fate as NAG, after completing it's Developmental trial by some miracle, it will fall short in Army trials and improvements would be demanded and the whole fuckin cycle of testing and trials will start all over again

For reference Turks started work on their Man portable ATGM at the same time, and theirs is already inducted in Turkish Land Forces

Here is a timeline of both the project to let you understand the gravity of their Incompetence.

	MPATGM	Karaok
Project Sanction	2015	2016
Testing	2018-2023	2020-22
User Trials	2024- God Knows When	No clear Info
Induction	God knows When	Ordered in 2022

Oh and the worst thing is this thing has the same range as Karaok even though it's Missile+CLU weight is 29kg and Karaok's is 16 kg

That 16kg is missile with launch tube without the CLU . According to Janes ,it's <25 kg in total.
javelin also has similar weight .


Check out the timeline of javelin first test flight to induction. The US don't waste time.

 

[Clawreed]

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1823373931270541640?t=K3rrUmQil9rStOYv5oREEQ&s=19

Drdo says maiden flight . Then,what was tested in 2014?

 

[Kedar]

It's a tragedy in India where the trials take painstaking much many years than the development and rollout of product itself. Just name any Indian product in recent time and the trial period, though magically foreign emergency imports complete their trials surprisingly fast.

Import and indigenous scammers act the same as our govt and electorate after all we are one and same. They just got good at marketing and pr now. I don't take most of stuff that comes out in news as indigenous seriously, exceptions are missiles, ad and few other domains. I hope am wrong.

 

[Mr.Evil]

View: https://x.com/DRDO_India/status/1823378244910911676

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

That 16kg is missile with launch tube without the CLU . According to Janes ,it's <25 kg in total. View attachment 6434
javelin also has similar weight .
View attachment 6438

Check out the timeline of javelin first test flight to induction. The US don't waste time.
View attachment 6436

May be you are right, otherwise that weight would not make any sense.

Maybe It's the way both the countries calculate the weight.

In our case Missile weighs 14.25kg and CLU+Tripod+Tube weighs another 14.5 kg bringing the all up weight to about 29kg.

Where as in Karaok case Missile + Tube weighs 16 kg and the CLU weighs another 8 kg (which they have not included in the promotional material, but Janes reported that) bringing the total weight to 24 kg.

But even then our's is heavy by over 6 kg, and if we compare it to SoKo Skybolt that difference reaches upto 10kg,

 

[Hawkeye]

Drdo says maiden flight . Then,what was tested in 2014?View attachment 6440

Thanks for reminding the hellhole called trial periods.
10 yrs trial for a glide bomb and no confirmed orders as of yet, even IAF is same as IA in case of this hellhole.
Does anybody really know why the hell does it take so much time, what kind of trials are they and if changes are needed than why after meeting the initial QRs, can't they give exact requirements during developmental stage itself and stop wastage of time. Reminds me of atags, why do all these trials just do crying of weight, was IA sleeping during design stage and didnt specified the max weight.
Otoh other countries do 24-yrs trial and thats it.

 

[SlayingHell]

Thanks for reminding the hellhole called trial periods.
10 yrs trial for a glide bomb and no confirmed orders as of yet, even IAF is same as IA in case of this hellhole.
Does anybody really know why the hell does it take so much time, what kind of trials are they and if changes are needed than why after meeting the initial QRs, can't they give exact requirements during developmental stage itself and stop wastage of time. Reminds me of atags, why do all these trials just do crying of weight, was IA sleeping during design stage and didnt specified the max weight.
Otoh other countries do 24-yrs trial and thats it.

I really hope of a day where we take away procurement powers from IAF and IA carving out a separate agency for testing, evaluation and readiness. I mean we can definitely term them as 3rd-Rate or C-Grade forces. They don't know what they want, they don't know what's happening outside the world. IAF was sleeping until 2019.

 

[SlayingHell]

May be you are right, otherwise that weight would not make any sense.

Maybe It's the way both the countries calculate the weight.

In our case Missile weighs 14.25kg and CLU+Tripod+Tube weighs another 14.5 kg bringing the all up weight to about 29kg.

Where as in Karaok case Missile + Tube weighs 16 kg and the CLU weighs another 8 kg (which they have not included in the promotional material, but Janes reported that) bringing the total weight to 24 kg.

But even then our's is heavy by over 6 kg, and if we compare it to SoKo Skybolt that difference reaches upto 10kg,

Maybe babus aren't using Composites and such, hence the weight is too heavy. I mean in DRDO you have certain labs that are very good and top notch well updated and others doing shitty work like ADE. Under which lab does this Missile comes?

 

[ezsasa]

Thanks for reminding the hellhole called trial periods.
10 yrs trial for a glide bomb and no confirmed orders as of yet, even IAF is same as IA in case of this hellhole.
Does anybody really know why the hell does it take so much time, what kind of trials are they and if changes are needed than why after meeting the initial QRs, can't they give exact requirements during developmental stage itself and stop wastage of time. Reminds me of atags, why do all these trials just do crying of weight, was IA sleeping during design stage and didnt specified the max weight.
Otoh other countries do 24-yrs trial and thats it.

by 2014 policy trajectory BDL would have manufactured this
by 2020 policy, adani and kalyani are production partners.

we all wanted domestic MIC, these are baby steps towards it, with lots of trial and errors in between.

 

[Kedar]

by 2014 policy trajectory BDL would have manufactured this
by 2020 policy, adani and kalyani are production partners.

we all wanted domestic MIC, these are baby steps towards it, with lots of trial and errors in between.

I will give it to you, you are an eternal optimist brother. Hope some of your optimism sees the realization

 

[jaijaganath]

Thanks for reminding the hellhole called trial periods.
10 yrs trial for a glide bomb and no confirmed orders as of yet, even IAF is same as IA in case of this hellhole.
Does anybody really know why the hell does it take so much time, what kind of trials are they and if changes are needed than why after meeting the initial QRs, can't they give exact requirements during developmental stage itself and stop wastage of time. Reminds me of atags, why do all these trials just do crying of weight, was IA sleeping during design stage and didnt specified the max weight.
Otoh other countries do 24-yrs trial and thats it.

Are baba
Some mis reporting or they meant something else
Gaurav and garutham have been ordered
LSP will be delivered in coming months big orders have been sanctioned

 

[Hawkeye]

May be you are right, otherwise that weight would not make any sense.

Maybe It's the way both the countries calculate the weight.

In our case Missile weighs 14.25kg and CLU+Tripod+Tube weighs another 14.5 kg bringing the all up weight to about 29kg.

Where as in Karaok case Missile + Tube weighs 16 kg and the CLU weighs another 8 kg (which they have not included in the promotional material, but Janes reported that) bringing the total weight to 24 kg.

But even then our's is heavy by over 6 kg, and if we compare it to SoKo Skybolt that difference reaches upto 10kg,

Obviously our system has tripod which should be weighing 5-8kg easily. Certify the system for shoulder launch and you have Karok equivalent. Comparison in current tripod form is inapt comparison.

Raybolt ATGM usually seen with tripod as well in which case weight increases to overall 24kg, so it depends on how it is used, still all figures are from here and there, if you can provide official brochure as i am unable find one while it exists for both other atgms, official LIG Nex site doesnt have that as well and many sources tell of 15kg so discrepancy.
Anyway Raybolt is simply better because it is certified for shoulder launch as well although how it is employed is a matter of choice. We dont have that with MPATGM.

Now big question is if MPATGM is many times better than konkurs and milan in both capability, weight and also comes with integral thermal sight which former lacks (yeah, our older atgms are night blind without a clip on thermal sight which we mostly lacks and have in very very small quantity) and also is possibly a lot cheaper than foreign options, then why keep on asking for more and more gucchi specs, induct blk1 and ask for more in blk2.

 

[Hawkeye]

by 2014 policy trajectory BDL would have manufactured this
by 2020 policy, adani and kalyani are production partners.

we all wanted domestic MIC, these are baby steps towards it, with lots of trial and errors in between.

Few questions-

Is BDL still one of the maufacturers?
In case a new manufacturer is chosen, are trials done again or maybe a lot is chose for testing accuracy, effectiveness and other parameters?

 

[Hawkeye]

Are baba
Some mis reporting or they meant something else
Gaurav and garutham have been ordered
LSP will be delivered in coming months big orders have been sanctioned

Still as far as I remember, orders didn't came before 2022 i believe and first test took place in Dec, 2014. 7 yrs for testing+ordering LSP lot is still very bad. Had it been a very complex product with minimum margin for error, sure but I don't know if anything justifies it.

 

[jaijaganath]

Still as far as I remember, orders didn't came before 2022 i believe and first test took place in Dec, 2014. 7 yrs for testing+ordering LSP lot is still very bad. Had it been a very complex product with minimum margin for error, sure but I don't know if anything justifies it.

Yeah it's true
It's our habit to sit on projects and wake post conflict
Anyway lsp will be delivered in future and larger orders might have been given too as few people indicated
But these are not significant optics wise so not much reporting happening over it
Infact lsp being produced is part of large order

 

[Hawkeye]

Now that a successful test firing of indigenous system has taken place, here is your dose of dalals doing their dalali

View: https://youtu.be/7NArcdNXRsI?si=RkAq5yUFNZSEGMU0

Dalal ji sneakily makes way for Javelin and somehow put all the blame on drdo although in a very covert manner.

Here are some of his musings-
1) Says IA has asked for shoulder launcher sytem but fails to mention that last RFI for atgm had no such mention and same IA is happy with similarly weighted tripod Spike LR emergency import, although it could have gone for Javelins if it wanted to.
2) Says project was taken in 2015 and should have been completed by 2018 PDC. Only a fool would believe that for a first try on such a system. Its true that Drdo tested the base missile in 2018 itself but they missed big time on realization of launcher part and hence delay.
3) Fails to mention as if trial period is not even a thing and magically IA will accept it after first test.
4) Doesnt say but fully implies that its the Drdo which is responsible for delay in acquisition of ATGM by IA in its long 15yrs old endeavor.

Now Mango defence enthusiast will give gali to Drdo and ask that the project be given to some private player who do screwdrivergiri and make some foreign maal with Indian name and voila MAkE in iNDIa.