Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[SKC]

If we really have to buy a phoren ka plane then I would have liked to buy F-35 more than Rafales.
F-35 already has a big ecosystem and economy of scale and readily available spares and easy maintenance.
It has much more stealth than Rafala too.

 

[Yuyutsu]

Yes sure... let's build a zoo of 2 squadrons this... 2 of that... 2 or 3 squadrons very well serves the purpose of Airshows and RD flypasts. Waise bhi suar bureaucrats and dhoti-lungi chaap netas don't have the stomach for conflict. If F-35 has to come then atleast 80 in number... anything less is the clown playing to the audience (gullible illiterate junta).

What are those 36 rafales good for apart from giving a false sense of security/supremacy to the RD flypast crowd who don't understand that we have a 10000 km aerial front... & 36 can't/won't be present to defend even a third of it anytime?

that gives us more than 20B$ as bill amount. are we ready to shell out this much money? would it result in good continued relations with russians?

 

[Ayan Barat]

would it result in good continued relations with russians?

• From an ally and UNSC point of view; yeah, it might hurt a bit.
But Russia too is in a dire situation after prolonging this war for so long, so it's a question for it too that whether it wants the alliance of a "good" country like us or rather make a gang of rouges like Iran and NoKo.

• From a defence contracting point of view; not really.
BMP-2 and T-72/90 are already slated for replacement. Artillery is pretty much already done. After one more Talwar I don't think we're going for Russian vessel anymore. Pretty much all missiles from ATGMs to S-400 now have local and even better analogue. With each year Su-30MkIs are getting more and more indigenized; Virupaksha is the latest example. Ka-226, Mi-17 and Mi-26 got cucked by LUH, IMRH and Chinook.

 

[Bleh]

If we really have to buy a phoren ka plane then I would have liked to buy F-35 more than Rafales.
F-35 already has a big ecosystem and economy of scale and readily available spares and easy maintenance.
It has much more stealth than Rafala too.

+1 we still have only 36 Rafales. If we're importing then better to cancel naval Rafale deal & go for STOVL F-35C that'll better suit out sky-jump carriers.

 

[SKC]

+1 we still have only 36 Rafales. If we're importing then better to cancel naval Rafale deal & go for STOVL F-35C that'll better suit out sky-jump carriers.

For Naval fighter also, we had discussion back on DFI where we all mentioned that F/A-18 is far suprior Naval Fighter and combat proven than N-Rafale but since we already bought 36 Rafals for AF so we had to with N-Rafala.​

 

[aim120]

F35A means we will need a new air refueling tanker.
F35 B and C variants can use our existing tankers.

F35C also has the biggest internal fuel among all variants.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

If we really have to buy a phoren ka plane then I would have liked to buy F-35 more than Rafales.
F-35 already has a big ecosystem and economy of scale and readily available spares and easy maintenance.
It has much more stealth than Rafala too.

Honestly I have to agree as well. The per unit cost of an F-35 is cheaper than a Rafale now, it's a league ahead in capability. Let's be real here chaps, AMCA wont see service before 2036 and that too in limited numbers like the issues Russians faced with the Su-57. I don't think the F-35 necessarily threatens the AMCA program, but it may end up enriching it further. Maybe an opportunity for ADA to make a bigger AMCA. If conditions are favorable (no bullshit clause on not using it on Pakis), why not at this point. The LCA Mk-2 will become the backbone of the IAF in the coming years no matter what. Rafale no longer has a case if Lockheed provides full local MRO and maybe a local assembly line for the bird, or at least it's subsystems down the line. South Koreans are working fine on their KF-21 despite being an F-35 customer. Now usually enough something as sensitive as a Fighter from US has it's own catches. If our legal experts can work out a guaranteed supply of parts, engine, etc, F-35 is currently a no brainer to upgrade IAF's capabilities. And Lockheed will deliver the birds faster than any other maker. Just 5 squadrons are enough to tip the balance of power again in South Asia.

 

[samsaptaka]

I am extremely doubtful behind the intent of Private Sector ToT Kickstarter argument of IAF. The argument is fine it it's about impartation of Industry Standards and such. But iam doubtful since it's coming from IAF. What exactly private sector gonna learn about? Is it airframe composites? But then how exactly making a 4.5th gen composites from Dassualt gonna be applied to Fifth gen RAS? Is is about Internal Avionics? Because no private company makes them except for Gormint ones.

Iam yet to find a answer to what exactly MRFA gonna impart to private sector and how is that relevant to next generation composites or alloys?

I asked what EXACTLY private sector gonna learn with MRFA? How is that different from a private sector being given incharge of AMCA Or LCA Mk2. Like private sector already does majority of the work like Only front fuselage comes from HAL with remaining from Private Vendors in case of Tejas. Canopy, Display, Radar comes from Private Companies.

Are you saying somehow a 4.5th gen technologies impart gonna be translated to 5th gen magically?

If IAF was serious it would have pushed GoI and MoD to make ADA do ToT for full assembly of Tejas to a pvt player and guaranteed pvt industry that orders will be 100% issued in large no.s . Production could then have been split betn pvt and HAL to speed up deliveries. Somewhat like The ASMI carbine and Lokesh Machine tools deal . But none of this is being done except complain like school boy to headmistress by IAF chief.
They're getting what they deserved but sadly not what the young pilots deserve, who are being told year on year that you have to continue flying the coffins.

Tell me the best possible alternative to HAL that we currently have and I'll go personally drop a 2000lbs on HAL's headquarters.

Yeah, IAF attitude is similar to the OPs, they have no choice but to work with HAL, not dream abt gold plated shiny planes all the time from choicy brochures

 

[Migflug]

better to take small order like rafale and keep porks in check with their new chinese 5th gen (or not) toys.
and also ask for help on AMCA.

one or the other day we had to buy a amreeki jet so why not f-35. just for keeping amreekis happy and become more serious in our own 5th gen plan.


View attachment 25130

2 squadrons of f-35A and one for naval f-35B , which will cost around 5-7B $ as already bought by some countries.

If India buys F35 it's over for our aerospace industry. We will keep buying the "stop-gap" till the end of the century

 

[Gandaberunda]

The much touted toy of IAF -114 MRFA should be F-35 G2G deal negotiated with no stupid usability strings attached and indigenous comm systems, weapons integration). Then IAF/ HAL/ADA/DRDO can calmly continue with the roadmap of MK1A - MK2 - AMCA ( build few TD prototype and jump to bigger AMCA-MK2) till 2040.
IAF now huge concern of dwindling squadron numbers will also get rectified and able 5th gen Aircraft will give a teeth to fight
adversary.

 

[Gandaberunda]

If IAF was serious it would have pushed GoI and MoD to make ADA do ToT for full assembly of Tejas to a pvt player and guaranteed pvt industry that orders will be 100% issued in large no.s . Production could then have been split betn pvt and HAL to speed up deliveries. Somewhat like The ASMI carbine and Lokesh Machine tools deal . But none of this is being done except complain like school boy to headmistress by IAF chief.
They're getting what they deserved but sadly not what the young pilots deserve, who are being told year on year that you have to continue flying the coffins.


Yeah, IAF attitude is similar to the OPs, they have no choice but to work with HAL, not dream abt gold plated shiny planes all the time from choicy brochures

GE will only supply 20 engines and HAL has 2 production line of 16 aircraft and one is Nashik with 8 total 24 aircraft which can be scaled to 32. That’s more than enough. No private player is interested to build the plane but screwdrivergiri foreign fighters

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

See at the end of the day, if it is necessary it's better to splurge 20B on whatever number of F-35s we gonna get for that. Rafales are a blunder for first time and we should not repeat the same for second time.

The point is about larger cultural shift. IAF has been flying shitty junk for past decades and inducting F-35 would raise standards of their expectations and all that. All vassals of USA now are able to achieve high quality defence production due to that.

There are too many squadrons to fulfill and it no matter how much IAF want, they wouldn't be allowed to import more than 100 before our finance guys step in. 100 are like 5 squadrons wheres our already squadrons numbers are like 31 something.

If it's about money, then that's very silly argument. There is always money. Its about intent. The same reason we are splurging 36,000 crore on 3 AIP subs not able to bring WW2 Army into modernity.

 

[samsaptaka]

See at the end of the day, if it is necessary it's better to splurge 20B on whatever number of F-35s we gonna get for that. Rafales are a blunder for first time and we should not repeat the same for second time.

The point is about larger cultural shift. IAF has been flying shitty junk for past decades and inducting F-35 would raise standards of their expectations and all that. All vassals of USA now are able to achieve high quality defence production due to that.

There are too many squadrons to fulfill and it no matter how much IAF want, they wouldn't be allowed to import more than 100 before our finance guys step in. 100 are like 5 squadrons wheres our already squadrons numbers are like 31 something.

If it's about money, then that's very silly argument. There is always money. Its about intent. The same reason we are splurging 36,000 crore on 3 AIP subs not able to bring WW2 Army into modernity.

IAF is still living in 70s era where they could import choicest planes from any country they want as there was no indig aircraft building capacity. They also succeeded in sabotaging the one & only marut effort and went back to golden days of importing. But now this era is over. Importing your frontline fighter means fighting with one hand tied behind your back , because the seller can inhibit your use of the aircraft as well as prevent integration of N no. of systems and weapons. There is a strategic shift needed in the thinking of IAF gernails , and its so sad that civilians have to point this out to IAF !
Of course shifting to indig aircraft has its own problems and will take time esp. the engine part, and here the GoI should ensure blank cheque funding for kaveri , FTB etc....
No serious power or nation will continue to import frontline weapon systems and aircraft if it harbours ambitions of becoming a serious regional power (leave alone a supapowa)

 

[SKC]

Poeple have even decided where to house the F35s

 

[ArjunMK1A]

You know why this happened?View attachment 25142

Pakistan bitchslapped IAF out of the sky & paraded around blindfolded, because when Jf-17 was in similar shaky status as Tejas at early 2010s... They backed it with their full force & inducted 50 without BVRs, while ours called it a 3-legged chertah.
And today IAF has to celebrate barely surviving AAMs from an inferior Air Force & make face-saving claims that literally noone other than Indian civilians were fooled by.

Combat is an extension of politics & policies.

Entire post Balakote incident is such a disgrace done by IAF. Flown an 60 years old plane, when its replacement where intentionally forced to undergo design improvement for decades. Got shafted by an equally poor man Mig29 JF-17 which at that time don't even have Air to Air refueling.


Meanwhile poor SOP resulted in shooting down your own MI-17 and killed pilots. On top of that you got ball jammed due to lack of SDR.


Army is Vintage, but it looks like IAF is dinosaur in terms of modernity. Supposedly Air force should be the pinnacle of new age tech.

IAF at present will suffer against PAF due to poor squadron and lack of great fighters. Against PLAAF, no way we are going to survive with current resources and the mindset that IAF is having.


We are going to fight against 500+ Sukhoi clones with full blown AESA, BVR missile. On top of that we will encounter 100+ J-20, which is even difficult to detect due to its being Stealthy in nature.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.

Then new kid should meet his family.




Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.





Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.





Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.





This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.





Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.




This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.




He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.

 

[Migflug]

If we keep buying "STOPGAPS", we will never have an aviation sector of our own. Just like we did with the MIg29/Mirage2000, the F35 will carry the same legacy. Come 2040, when AMCA might see the light, we will buy a few token sq of AMCA, cuz it's time for the 6th gen fighter jets and the Chinese are now selling their matured 6th gen to Pakis and then again we will but the "STOPGAP" FCAS

 

[Spitfire IX]

The much touted toy of IAF -114 MRFA should be F-35 G2G deal negotiated with no stupid usability strings attached and indigenous comm systems, weapons integration). Then IAF/ HAL/ADA/DRDO can calmly continue with the roadmap of MK1A - MK2 - AMCA ( build few TD prototype and jump to bigger AMCA-MK2) till 2040.
IAF now huge concern of dwindling squadron numbers will also get rectified and able 5th gen Aircraft will give a teeth to fight
adversary.

I do not think there is any possibility of India being supplied with F-35 without usability strings attached.

 

[Spitfire IX]

In the wake of the ACM's comments regarding HAL, this debate is worth a listen


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQn1mlkaDw

 

[Ayan Barat]

American FanBois are on the verge of having a mental breakdown on how F-35 sale to us would compromise everything.

Meanwhile Indian FanBois are having a field day

View: https://x.com/max_matrix1/status/1890285068830257513?s=19