Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Gandaberunda]

The much touted toy of IAF -114 MRFA should be F-35 G2G deal negotiated with no stupid usability strings attached and indigenous comm systems, weapons integration). Then IAF/ HAL/ADA/DRDO can calmly continue with the roadmap of MK1A - MK2 - AMCA ( build few TD prototype and jump to bigger AMCA-MK2) till 2040.
IAF now huge concern of dwindling squadron numbers will also get rectified and able 5th gen Aircraft will give a teeth to fight
adversary.

 

[Gandaberunda]

If IAF was serious it would have pushed GoI and MoD to make ADA do ToT for full assembly of Tejas to a pvt player and guaranteed pvt industry that orders will be 100% issued in large no.s . Production could then have been split betn pvt and HAL to speed up deliveries. Somewhat like The ASMI carbine and Lokesh Machine tools deal . But none of this is being done except complain like school boy to headmistress by IAF chief.
They're getting what they deserved but sadly not what the young pilots deserve, who are being told year on year that you have to continue flying the coffins.


Yeah, IAF attitude is similar to the OPs, they have no choice but to work with HAL, not dream abt gold plated shiny planes all the time from choicy brochures

GE will only supply 20 engines and HAL has 2 production line of 16 aircraft and one is Nashik with 8 total 24 aircraft which can be scaled to 32. That’s more than enough. No private player is interested to build the plane but screwdrivergiri foreign fighters

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

See at the end of the day, if it is necessary it's better to splurge 20B on whatever number of F-35s we gonna get for that. Rafales are a blunder for first time and we should not repeat the same for second time.

The point is about larger cultural shift. IAF has been flying shitty junk for past decades and inducting F-35 would raise standards of their expectations and all that. All vassals of USA now are able to achieve high quality defence production due to that.

There are too many squadrons to fulfill and it no matter how much IAF want, they wouldn't be allowed to import more than 100 before our finance guys step in. 100 are like 5 squadrons wheres our already squadrons numbers are like 31 something.

If it's about money, then that's very silly argument. There is always money. Its about intent. The same reason we are splurging 36,000 crore on 3 AIP subs not able to bring WW2 Army into modernity.

 

[samsaptaka]

See at the end of the day, if it is necessary it's better to splurge 20B on whatever number of F-35s we gonna get for that. Rafales are a blunder for first time and we should not repeat the same for second time.

The point is about larger cultural shift. IAF has been flying shitty junk for past decades and inducting F-35 would raise standards of their expectations and all that. All vassals of USA now are able to achieve high quality defence production due to that.

There are too many squadrons to fulfill and it no matter how much IAF want, they wouldn't be allowed to import more than 100 before our finance guys step in. 100 are like 5 squadrons wheres our already squadrons numbers are like 31 something.

If it's about money, then that's very silly argument. There is always money. Its about intent. The same reason we are splurging 36,000 crore on 3 AIP subs not able to bring WW2 Army into modernity.

IAF is still living in 70s era where they could import choicest planes from any country they want as there was no indig aircraft building capacity. They also succeeded in sabotaging the one & only marut effort and went back to golden days of importing. But now this era is over. Importing your frontline fighter means fighting with one hand tied behind your back , because the seller can inhibit your use of the aircraft as well as prevent integration of N no. of systems and weapons. There is a strategic shift needed in the thinking of IAF gernails , and its so sad that civilians have to point this out to IAF !
Of course shifting to indig aircraft has its own problems and will take time esp. the engine part, and here the GoI should ensure blank cheque funding for kaveri , FTB etc....
No serious power or nation will continue to import frontline weapon systems and aircraft if it harbours ambitions of becoming a serious regional power (leave alone a supapowa)

 

[SKC]

Poeple have even decided where to house the F35s

 

[ArjunMK1A]

You know why this happened?View attachment 25142

Pakistan bitchslapped IAF out of the sky & paraded around blindfolded, because when Jf-17 was in similar shaky status as Tejas at early 2010s... They backed it with their full force & inducted 50 without BVRs, while ours called it a 3-legged chertah.
And today IAF has to celebrate barely surviving AAMs from an inferior Air Force & make face-saving claims that literally noone other than Indian civilians were fooled by.

Combat is an extension of politics & policies.

Entire post Balakote incident is such a disgrace done by IAF. Flown an 60 years old plane, when its replacement where intentionally forced to undergo design improvement for decades. Got shafted by an equally poor man Mig29 JF-17 which at that time don't even have Air to Air refueling.


Meanwhile poor SOP resulted in shooting down your own MI-17 and killed pilots. On top of that you got ball jammed due to lack of SDR.


Army is Vintage, but it looks like IAF is dinosaur in terms of modernity. Supposedly Air force should be the pinnacle of new age tech.

IAF at present will suffer against PAF due to poor squadron and lack of great fighters. Against PLAAF, no way we are going to survive with current resources and the mindset that IAF is having.


We are going to fight against 500+ Sukhoi clones with full blown AESA, BVR missile. On top of that we will encounter 100+ J-20, which is even difficult to detect due to its being Stealthy in nature.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.

Then new kid should meet his family.




Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.





Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.





Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.





This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.





Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.




This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.




He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.

 

[Migflug]

If we keep buying "STOPGAPS", we will never have an aviation sector of our own. Just like we did with the MIg29/Mirage2000, the F35 will carry the same legacy. Come 2040, when AMCA might see the light, we will buy a few token sq of AMCA, cuz it's time for the 6th gen fighter jets and the Chinese are now selling their matured 6th gen to Pakis and then again we will but the "STOPGAP" FCAS

 

[Spitfire IX]

The much touted toy of IAF -114 MRFA should be F-35 G2G deal negotiated with no stupid usability strings attached and indigenous comm systems, weapons integration). Then IAF/ HAL/ADA/DRDO can calmly continue with the roadmap of MK1A - MK2 - AMCA ( build few TD prototype and jump to bigger AMCA-MK2) till 2040.
IAF now huge concern of dwindling squadron numbers will also get rectified and able 5th gen Aircraft will give a teeth to fight
adversary.

I do not think there is any possibility of India being supplied with F-35 without usability strings attached.

 

[Spitfire IX]

In the wake of the ACM's comments regarding HAL, this debate is worth a listen


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQn1mlkaDw

 

[Ayan Barat]

American FanBois are on the verge of having a mental breakdown on how F-35 sale to us would compromise everything.

Meanwhile Indian FanBois are having a field day

View: https://x.com/max_matrix1/status/1890285068830257513?s=19

 

[Azaad]

• From an ally and UNSC point of view; yeah, it might hurt a bit.
But Russia too is in a dire situation after prolonging this war for so long, so it's a question for it too that whether it wants the alliance of a "good" country like us or rather make a gang of rouges like Iran and NoKo.

• From a defence contracting point of view; not really.
BMP-2 and T-72/90 are already slated for replacement. Artillery is pretty much already done. After one more Talwar I don't think we're going for Russian vessel anymore. Pretty much all missiles from ATGMs to S-400 now have local and even better analogue. With each year Su-30MkIs are getting more and more indigenized; Virupaksha is the latest example. Ka-226, Mi-17 and Mi-26 got cucked by LUH, IMRH and Chinook.

We're getting the Voronezh OTHR from them . Plus we've expressed interest in the Borei & Yasen class of Submarines. There are other niche areas we can collaborate in . No other country will provide that level of technology to us. Not even France .

 

[Azaad]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

 

[Gandaberunda]

If we keep buying "STOPGAPS", we will never have an aviation sector of our own. Just like we did with the MIg29/Mirage2000, the F35 will carry the same legacy. Come 2040, when AMCA might see the light, we will buy a few token sq of AMCA, cuz it's time for the 6th gen fighter jets and the Chinese are now selling their matured 6th gen to Pakis and then again we will but the "STOPGAP" FCAS

There is no indegeneous option now other than stop gaps and come 2040 it isn’t clear AMCA will be ready or not so for a estimated plane which comes in 2040 you want to pass on the option not buying best 5th gen aircraft. even if we develops and inducts AMCA in 2040 it will be a Gen less as you said China will be flying 6th gen whether we go for stop gap now or build one.
Sensible thing to do is buy F-35 and develop build Tejas MK2 and AMCA MK2 in numbers.

 

[hit&run]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

It is better to buy an F-35 and have access to the latest hardware and software. It is a force multiplier and other nuances vis a vis its capabilities can be discussed in length but from where I am seeing, it has the following way of looking at it.

The F-35s can be kept isolated from offensive operations and strategic strike assets. It is like air-gapping them from mainstream doctrine and having a separate operational doctrine for F-35 for defensive purposes and support missions.

The debate is lost in technical aspects, running costs, and attached strings.

But looking at Indian posturing vis-a-vis China it is already very defensive. No way India is going to upset the status quo on the contrary it will try to avoid climbing the escalation ladder even if there is higher attrition on our side.

Furthermore, the risk of nuclear exchange will be a big contributor to quickly deescalate. I mean by the time you assign ground targets to IAF and load jets there will be de-escalation.

The InA posturing is showing no capabilities of being an invasion force.

A few other points suggest India is more focused on reactionary actions than preemptive ones.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

It is better to buy an F-35 and have access to the latest hardware and software. It is a force multiplier and other nuances vis a vis its capabilities can be discussed in length but from where I am seeing, it has the following way of looking at it.

The F-35s can be kept isolated from offensive operations and strategic strike assets. It is like air-gapping them from mainstream doctrine and having a separate operational doctrine for F-35 for defensive purposes and support missions.

The debate is lost in technical aspects, running costs, and attached strings.

But looking at Indian posturing vis-a-vis China it is already very defensive. No way India is going to upset the status quo on the contrary it will try to avoid climbing the escalation ladder even if there is higher attrition on our side.

Furthermore, the risk of nuclear exchange will be a big contributor to quickly deescalate. I mean by the time you assign ground targets to IAF and load jets there will be de-escalation.

The InA posturing is showing no capabilities of being an invasion force.

A few other points suggest India is more focused on reactionary actions than preemptive ones.

IAF will not buy a jet that can be remotely gimped by an intern in Maryland. They will have to offer the same freedom of operation Israelis allegedly enjoy with regards to their F-35s. If they deny radar and sensors, replace them with our own GaN AESA.

 

[Indianhawk]

• From an ally and UNSC point of view; yeah, it might hurt a bit.
But Russia too is in a dire situation after prolonging this war for so long, so it's a question for it too that whether it wants the alliance of a "good" country like us or rather make a gang of rouges like Iran and NoKo.

• From a defence contracting point of view; not really.
BMP-2 and T-72/90 are already slated for replacement. Artillery is pretty much already done. After one more Talwar I don't think we're going for Russian vessel anymore. Pretty much all missiles from ATGMs to S-400 now have local and even better analogue. With each year Su-30MkIs are getting more and more indigenized; Virupaksha is the latest example. Ka-226, Mi-17 and Mi-26 got cucked by LUH, IMRH and Chinook.

Russian remain important for SSBN project and SSN project.
They will remain critical for space , nuke reactors ( both civil and military) and in many more areas.

 

[Indianhawk]

Poeple have even decided where to house the F35s

View attachment 25156

To his credit he was pretty consistent that f35 will be offered to india .

 

[Indianhawk]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.
View attachment 25168
Then new kid should meet his family.

View attachment 25160


Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.


View attachment 25159


Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.


View attachment 25161


Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.


View attachment 25162


This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.


View attachment 25164


Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.

View attachment 25165


This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.

View attachment 25166


He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.
View attachment 25169

Lca mk2 pregnancy is almost over. It should be protected by the family at any cost !

 

[Blademaster]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.
View attachment 25168
Then new kid should meet his family.

View attachment 25160


Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.


View attachment 25159


Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.


View attachment 25161


Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.


View attachment 25162


This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.


View attachment 25164


Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.

View attachment 25165


This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.

View attachment 25166


He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.

We need to immediately dump the MiG-21s, Jaguars, and Mig-29s and replace them immediately with more LCA Tejas and Rafales.

I would order enough LCAs to have 300 LCA Mk1As to replace the MiG-21s and 300 Mk2s to replace the Mirages and Jaguars. Order 78 more rafales to replace the Mig-29s. Boost up the Su-30 MKI numbers to 360.

That effectively means IAF can have 600 LCAs, 360 Su-30MKIs, and 114 Rafales for a 4.5 generation fleet.

Order 75 F-35s or Su-57s as a stop gap measure while we wait for the AMCA to come to fruition.