Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Azaad]

• From an ally and UNSC point of view; yeah, it might hurt a bit.
But Russia too is in a dire situation after prolonging this war for so long, so it's a question for it too that whether it wants the alliance of a "good" country like us or rather make a gang of rouges like Iran and NoKo.

• From a defence contracting point of view; not really.
BMP-2 and T-72/90 are already slated for replacement. Artillery is pretty much already done. After one more Talwar I don't think we're going for Russian vessel anymore. Pretty much all missiles from ATGMs to S-400 now have local and even better analogue. With each year Su-30MkIs are getting more and more indigenized; Virupaksha is the latest example. Ka-226, Mi-17 and Mi-26 got cucked by LUH, IMRH and Chinook.

We're getting the Voronezh OTHR from them . Plus we've expressed interest in the Borei & Yasen class of Submarines. There are other niche areas we can collaborate in . No other country will provide that level of technology to us. Not even France .

 

[Azaad]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

 

[Gandaberunda]

If we keep buying "STOPGAPS", we will never have an aviation sector of our own. Just like we did with the MIg29/Mirage2000, the F35 will carry the same legacy. Come 2040, when AMCA might see the light, we will buy a few token sq of AMCA, cuz it's time for the 6th gen fighter jets and the Chinese are now selling their matured 6th gen to Pakis and then again we will but the "STOPGAP" FCAS

There is no indegeneous option now other than stop gaps and come 2040 it isn’t clear AMCA will be ready or not so for a estimated plane which comes in 2040 you want to pass on the option not buying best 5th gen aircraft. even if we develops and inducts AMCA in 2040 it will be a Gen less as you said China will be flying 6th gen whether we go for stop gap now or build one.
Sensible thing to do is buy F-35 and develop build Tejas MK2 and AMCA MK2 in numbers.

 

[hit&run]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

It is better to buy an F-35 and have access to the latest hardware and software. It is a force multiplier and other nuances vis a vis its capabilities can be discussed in length but from where I am seeing, it has the following way of looking at it.

The F-35s can be kept isolated from offensive operations and strategic strike assets. It is like air-gapping them from mainstream doctrine and having a separate operational doctrine for F-35 for defensive purposes and support missions.

The debate is lost in technical aspects, running costs, and attached strings.

But looking at Indian posturing vis-a-vis China it is already very defensive. No way India is going to upset the status quo on the contrary it will try to avoid climbing the escalation ladder even if there is higher attrition on our side.

Furthermore, the risk of nuclear exchange will be a big contributor to quickly deescalate. I mean by the time you assign ground targets to IAF and load jets there will be de-escalation.

The InA posturing is showing no capabilities of being an invasion force.

A few other points suggest India is more focused on reactionary actions than preemptive ones.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Bonded warehouse planned for F-35 imports and exports

Under this two-year contract, Lockheed Martin will create and operate a 'Public Customs Bonded Warehouse' at RAF Marham where F-35 spare parts and consumables can be held in customs suspension.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

To all those arguing in favour of the F-35 , read this article & know that this is the state of the UK which is not only an US poodle but for all practical purposes the 51st state of the US.

That's not all . Every single flight is tracked by the US courtesy data up linked to servers back in the US . Hence , if there are deviations in the agreement a nation signs with the US , it's not going to be a case like Paxtan & the F-16s where they're denied spares & upgradation , you just won't be able to access the F-35.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse. Since we aren't a NATO signatory we'd most probably receive monkey models of the F-35 . Then there's the issue of deliveries. We'd probably get them in the mid to late 30s if we place the order now. You can forget about offsets or ToT / MII.

I could go on . Trust you get the drift.

It is better to buy an F-35 and have access to the latest hardware and software. It is a force multiplier and other nuances vis a vis its capabilities can be discussed in length but from where I am seeing, it has the following way of looking at it.

The F-35s can be kept isolated from offensive operations and strategic strike assets. It is like air-gapping them from mainstream doctrine and having a separate operational doctrine for F-35 for defensive purposes and support missions.

The debate is lost in technical aspects, running costs, and attached strings.

But looking at Indian posturing vis-a-vis China it is already very defensive. No way India is going to upset the status quo on the contrary it will try to avoid climbing the escalation ladder even if there is higher attrition on our side.

Furthermore, the risk of nuclear exchange will be a big contributor to quickly deescalate. I mean by the time you assign ground targets to IAF and load jets there will be de-escalation.

The InA posturing is showing no capabilities of being an invasion force.

A few other points suggest India is more focused on reactionary actions than preemptive ones.

IAF will not buy a jet that can be remotely gimped by an intern in Maryland. They will have to offer the same freedom of operation Israelis allegedly enjoy with regards to their F-35s. If they deny radar and sensors, replace them with our own GaN AESA.

 

[Indianhawk]

• From an ally and UNSC point of view; yeah, it might hurt a bit.
But Russia too is in a dire situation after prolonging this war for so long, so it's a question for it too that whether it wants the alliance of a "good" country like us or rather make a gang of rouges like Iran and NoKo.

• From a defence contracting point of view; not really.
BMP-2 and T-72/90 are already slated for replacement. Artillery is pretty much already done. After one more Talwar I don't think we're going for Russian vessel anymore. Pretty much all missiles from ATGMs to S-400 now have local and even better analogue. With each year Su-30MkIs are getting more and more indigenized; Virupaksha is the latest example. Ka-226, Mi-17 and Mi-26 got cucked by LUH, IMRH and Chinook.

Russian remain important for SSBN project and SSN project.
They will remain critical for space , nuke reactors ( both civil and military) and in many more areas.

 

[Indianhawk]

Poeple have even decided where to house the F35s

View attachment 25156

To his credit he was pretty consistent that f35 will be offered to india .

 

[Indianhawk]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.
View attachment 25168
Then new kid should meet his family.

View attachment 25160


Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.


View attachment 25159


Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.


View attachment 25161


Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.


View attachment 25162


This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.


View attachment 25164


Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.

View attachment 25165


This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.

View attachment 25166


He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.
View attachment 25169

Lca mk2 pregnancy is almost over. It should be protected by the family at any cost !

 

[Blademaster]

Well Well Well.

If we are going to acquire F-35. This new kid should learn some manners.
View attachment 25168
Then new kid should meet his family.

View attachment 25160


Meet the family Patriarch, grumpy old man MIG-21. 70 years old but still sprint like Usain bolt.


View attachment 25159


Meet the second oldest grandpa. Jaguar, can pound the ground. Unfortunately, suffering an heart problem which is not pumping at full capacity. Heart Transplant was planned but the donor Honeywell is not doing the operation.


View attachment 25161


Meet Uncle Dmitri. He release black smoke to confuse enemies. Carries an Hump to store extra Russian Vodka.


View attachment 25162


This is Uncle Louise, Born in France. He is an Expert Nuclear Weapons Dealer.


View attachment 25164


Meet Uncle Sergei. Gym Body and bulkiest of all. Uncle can handle dishes made in France, Israel and Indian. Currently training with new toys.

View attachment 25165


This is uncle Macron. Relative to Uncle Louise. He is the most tech focused Uncle we ever seen. Have variety of gadgets.


Finally, meet the youngest son. We don't have great opinion of him. Least favorite for his parent. Trying to impress with some shady stunts.

View attachment 25166


He is your cousin Tejas, we call him Samosa. Not the brightest lot. Took 25 years to learn new things. We don't like him since he is not getting more marks than opposite house Sharma sir ka beta.




We are welcoming you wholeheartedly to this family.

We need to immediately dump the MiG-21s, Jaguars, and Mig-29s and replace them immediately with more LCA Tejas and Rafales.

I would order enough LCAs to have 300 LCA Mk1As to replace the MiG-21s and 300 Mk2s to replace the Mirages and Jaguars. Order 78 more rafales to replace the Mig-29s. Boost up the Su-30 MKI numbers to 360.

That effectively means IAF can have 600 LCAs, 360 Su-30MKIs, and 114 Rafales for a 4.5 generation fleet.

Order 75 F-35s or Su-57s as a stop gap measure while we wait for the AMCA to come to fruition.

 

[Azaad]

It is better to buy an F-35 and have access to the latest hardware and software. It is a force multiplier and other nuances vis a vis its capabilities can be discussed in length but from where I am seeing, it has the following way of looking at it.

The F-35s can be kept isolated from offensive operations and strategic strike assets. It is like air-gapping them from mainstream doctrine and having a separate operational doctrine for F-35 for defensive purposes and support missions.

The debate is lost in technical aspects, running costs, and attached strings.

But looking at Indian posturing vis-a-vis China it is already very defensive. No way India is going to upset the status quo on the contrary it will try to avoid climbing the escalation ladder even if there is higher attrition on our side.

Furthermore, the risk of nuclear exchange will be a big contributor to quickly deescalate. I mean by the time you assign ground targets to IAF and load jets there will be de-escalation.

The InA posturing is showing no capabilities of being an invasion force.

A few other points suggest India is more focused on reactionary actions than preemptive ones.

I'd argue that we've lost whatever time we had to prepare for the upcoming war against China. That window closed last year.

Even if we were to order the F-35 today we can't expect them before a decade given LM's backlog to clear as I've mentioned in the post which in turn means a good 3 decades later Gen V.P. Malik's desperate statement - we'd fight with whatever we have will still hold true.

And that's only the beginning of our problems. The other point being how far are you willing to evolve a doctrine just to accommodate a type of FA in your ranks which is isolated from the rest of the system & I'm talking about the entire network the IAF has developed which in turn is networked with a grid encompassing all the other services networks.

What you're suggesting hasn't been attempted anywhere in the world for good reason coz it's impractical . We might as well base the USAF in India like the rest of the Quad & Philippines.

IAF will not buy a jet that can be remotely gimped by an intern in Maryland.

That's why I wrote what I wrote . You're echoing my position.

They will have to offer the same freedom of operation Israelis allegedly enjoy with regards to their F-35s. If they deny radar and sensors, replace them with our own GaN AESA.

You can forget it . Neither are we a NATO signatory & you've seen how they're treated. Moreover , we're certainly not Israel. To add to this , it's not a mature platform . The FOC is expected 2030 onwards . Pursuing the F-35 today is a fool's errand .

 

[hit&run]

I'd argue that we've lost whatever time we had to prepare for the upcoming war against China. That window closed last year.

Even if we were to order the F-35 today we can't expect them before a decade given LM's backlog to clear as I've mentioned in the post which in turn means a good 3 decades later Gen V.P. Malik's desperate statement - we'd fight with whatever we have will still hold true.

And that's only the beginning of our problems. The other point being how far are you willing to evolve a doctrine just to accommodate a type of FA in your ranks which is isolated from the rest of the system & I'm talking about the entire network the IAF has developed which in turn is networked with a grid encompassing all the other services networks.

What you're suggesting hasn't been attempted anywhere in the world for good reason coz it's impractical . We might as well base the USAF in India like the rest of the Quad & Philippines.


That's why I wrote what I wrote . You're echoing my position.

You can forget it . Neither are we a NATO signatory & you've seen how they're treated. Moreover , we're certainly not Israel. To add to this , it's not a mature platform . The FOC is expected 2030 onwards . Pursuing the F-35 today is a fool's errand .

The point is there is no war either with China or Pakistan.

There is no urgency shown by any of the branches and they are moving to whatever direction they want at their own pace.

As far as HAL is concerned then it does not have the brains, vision, skills or resources to build anything for this generation. Even if they can piece something together they do not know how to mass produce it.
All they can do is keep some jets in good shape like an ornament.

However, the gap needs to be filled just for the sake of filling the gaps. You know what I mean.
Whatever strings attached F-35 may come with (we will negotiate hard to have it covered for long-term upgrades) it will be aligning with Indian military posturing under Modi. I see no contradictions to not buy it.

 

[Ayan Barat]

> LockMart and top US officials are all excited to offer F-35 to India
> Indian FanBois are in a state of utter shock and trying everything from cussing to memeing in an effort to maintain their sanity
> American FanBois are losing their s*it considering we've S-400 and how easily F-35's secret would leak to Russia
> And Indian FanBois are mocking them saying that China already has J-35s
> Some US lawmakers and veteran are writing threads about all the security risks of this deal
> Indian FanBois are countering them that we already operate everything from AH-64s to P-8s so this too would be safe and USA should sell it
> Meanwhile Turkish FanBois are angered to the point of conducting a Jihad against the damned CAATSA

What an amazing day it is

 

[Hawkeye]

hard to believe our country's security is in the hands of a bunch of quota engineers and pension uncles at HAL.

Man, you have so much to learn, I guess you are new in this arena and
If you consider indian private cos as the next best entity to God...............

 

[Spitfire IX]

If IAF was serious it would have pushed GoI and MoD to make ADA do ToT for full assembly of Tejas to a pvt player and guaranteed pvt industry that orders will be 100% issued in large no.s . Production could then have been split betn pvt and HAL to speed up deliveries.

India has a Ministry of Defence, doesn't it? Has it pressed for de-monopolisation of design and production of fighter aircraft? If not, why not?

It is patently obvious that the state-owned monopoly on fighter development and production has produced very poor results. If India wants to stick with that it should not lament its fighter MIC producing very poor results.

Does no GOI have the guts to change the status quo of all fighter programmes suffering massive delays and all future fighter programmes prospectively suffering massive delays? If the system does not work, GOI should have the guts to recognise that and change it to something that stands a better chance of working.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://x.com/TurkishCentury/status/1854875863948366288

F-35 SUCKS MORE THAN YOU THINK!Former president of Türkiye's #defense acquisitions agency SSB on ridiculous #F35 preconditions:

Paying huge sums for the F35 isn't the problem, it's the utter dependence on the US that creates.

We couldn't fly our jets in 1974 because the US refused to provide their spare tires! Even the tiniest sanctions can have huge impacts.

F-35 requires regular code updates and a unique password just to turn on, that is provided to customers by the US daily. What if they stop giving it to you?

US completely oversees and remotely controls your entire F-35 supply chain. What you need, when you need it, how many, you don't tell them, they tell you. And you have to pay to get it.

An F-35 engine overhaul center was going to be set up in Türkiye. But Americans said there would be a restricted section within it that would only employ US staff and be off limits to Turkish staff. What kind of partnership is this?

No technical access to the hot sections of the engines whatsoever.l

No access to US-provided avionics or source codes.

Even the old RAM paint that gets scraped off before repainting the aircraft gets shipped back to the US, to keep us from reverse-engineering the chemicals.

This may sound like sour grapes coming as it does from the Turks but it's true for the most part . I believe this tweet was linked here a few days ago .

 

[Poseidon]

I am following Indian defence news actively everyday since Jan 2011.

This is the best day in that 14 year period.

Jai F35.

 

[Mangal]

Some times it's good to keep a big danda to scare the dogs away. Though you may never use it or may not be allowed to use it.
F 35 will do the job till AMCA arrives.

 

[Hari Sud]

Is Pakistani meltdown of India acquiring American F-35 stealth fighter is complete or do they have any more propaganda left?

They have been misleading their own populace of victories upon victories over India in previous wars.

Recent valuable propaganda is that Pakistan open doors for all Indian Muslim to come to Pakistan which will double their population. Then all of them together will attack India and conquer it and Muslim rule in the subcontinent will be back.

Other line of propaganda is that they have the bomb and they can destroy India completely, forgetting that India has bomb too.

This propaganda is believed by Madrassas graduates who are ready to fight. These graduates believe that earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it. They will quote verses after versus from their scripture to prove their point. Interestingly, 30% of adults walking around in Pakistan are Madrassas graduates, who have been recruited in the Army and civil service. You have to thank General Zia Ul Haq in 1980s for that.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Is Pakistani meltdown of India acquiring American F-35 stealth fighter is complete or do they have any more propaganda left?

They have been misleading their own populace of victories upon victories over India in previous wars.

Recent valuable propaganda is that Pakistan open doors for all Indian Muslim to come to Pakistan which will double their population. Then all of them together will attack India and conquer it and Muslim rule in the subcontinent will be back.

Other line of propaganda is that they have the bomb and they can destroy India completely, forgetting that India has bomb too.

This propaganda is believed by Madrassas graduates who are ready to fight. These graduates believe that earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it. They will quote verses after versus from their scripture to prove their point. Interestingly, 30% of adults walking around in Pakistan are Madrassas graduates, who have been recruited in the Army and civil service. You have to thank General Zia Ul Haq in 1980s for that.

Incidentally there's isn't much meltdown in Pakistan over F-35.

The only people even remotely having a meltdown with this are Indian enthusiast who are trying to decide whether it'll be a good stop-gap measure or prove to be the final nail in our MIC's coffin, with us becoming the next Taiwan. And American enthusiastic who are torn between gaining a potent ally in this part of Aisa and losing their secrets of F-35 to Russia.

But if I remember correctly Sir then you were the one who had problem with Yusuf because he was...well, "Yusuf". So I'm assuming whatever you wrote is just an off-topic rant that you just found a reason to vent out.

Anyways, as for Pakistan they know everything from their quwwat in LSCO with us to our own 5th gen program. This is primarily the reason they focus so much on COIN; the recent use of military grade mines by terrorist is an excellent example. So, no need to get happy...our concern is China, not Pakistan

 

[trombone]

I had only heard about premature ejaculation before. Now seeing it in this thread. Not over any sexy bombshell, but a white elephant in golden handcuffs.