Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

I am not sure why IAF is keen on MRFA , This made sense 20 years back but not now
Why IAF is willing to get 114 4.5 gen jets worth billions of dollars and that too of foreign OEM. Looks like IAF don't have proper vision . Given the speed of arms purchase in India the deal will be signed in two years and assuming it takes 3 years for India to get jets with 20 jets per year (optimistic) we are looking at 7 years to get those jets , by 2037 china and US will be moving to 6th gen and we will be running for costly spares for 4.5 gen ..what a visionary leadership we have ..
With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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So MRFA will only have 5 th gen jets ? .it does make sense ..in that case to reduce the timeframe India should consider on F35 and Su57.. Any other 4.5 jets would mean lack of IAF and MOD judgement..
 
With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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that's not happening.. If at all f-35 is taken, it will be a token purchase.. mrca rafales will come. I don't think we want to give up our autonomy by getting fat amy as mrca
 
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that's not happening.. If at all f-35 is taken, it will be a token purchase.. mrca rafales will come. I don't think we want to give up our autonomy by getting fat amy as mrca
This has been discussed in the past few pages. A hypothetical F-35 purchase would be made with guarantees and integration with local weapons, systems and comm protocols in mind. With established line of spares and local MRO. Otherwise a non starter deal.
So MRFA will only have 5 th gen jets ? .it does make sense ..in that case to reduce the timeframe India should consider on F35 and Su57.. Any other 4.5 jets would mean lack of IAF and MOD judgement..
I mean what do you want for you buck ? IAF needs a drastic boost in capability right now. Lockheed is printing a 100+ of these every year.
 
I think India is close to engineer break through and can build fighter jets quickly in 4 years. If IAF recommends 5th gen fighter aircraft of a squadron or 2 India should buy them.
 
If you are opposing F-35... well and good... do it... but don't bat for Su-57 in the same breath.

Number of F-35s manufactured till date: 1150+ (in service in 11 countries... many others waiting)... production rate: 150ac/annum... order book: 1700+

Number of Su-57 manufactured till date: 32!

Lol more than half of the F-35s are basically limited in combat capability and therefore of dubious combat value. I would only say that about the last 300 F-35s produced actually have combat value.

The first 400 F-35s are basically worthless because they cannot even meet the required IOC before even achieving the FOC due to the inherent defects that were not resolved when Pentagon decided to go for full production in order to bring the costs down.
 
With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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It cannot do a STOVL on its own. It requires a catapult which India does not have.
 
With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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Do we have official confirmation from Indian Govt sources about F35 procurement or we are just speculating gormint babus might fumble n buy this over priced bird....
 
28 Lakhs per hour for an F-35 looks a steal.

Rafale based on chatgpt, giving 18 lakhs per hour.

Flaws in F-35 were known from its initial entry. LM is working on fixing them as reputed company. Compared to this we bought SU-30MKI with shit tier avionics and we forced to install French, Israel avionics.
Based on real numbers, in France, last cost per hour known was 17 000 US dollars, and F35 40 000 is dollars. More than twice the price.
But on fact the F35 is less expensive because... It cannot sustain or match the Rafale availability rate
 
I also not interested in having F-35, another aircraft in our Zero. But overall numbers will be supporting F-35.

Per Unit cost F35A -82 MIL USD, Even F35C is 102 MIL USD.

you are confusing two different things. Production cost and acquisition cost.
In France, production cost of Rafale is around 70 millions of euro per plane. But when you sell a plane you don't just sell an airframe and engines, but a lot of stuff to get it to the air.
With all the package of spare part, documentation, training, ammunition and so on, you are at approximately 200 millions of euros per plane. For India it was 170 millions, and includes the development of a brand news standard.

For the F35, while excluding the weird sell system of FMS, you can check prices offers on the website dsca.mil. you ll also find a price around 200 million us dollar. Sometimes more, sometimes less, it depends of there is ammunition package or not, if there was a contest or not, and euro/dollar quite the same here.

Rafale we purchased is 100MIL USD. May be we can get discount now. But at slightly higher price we are getting advance plane.
Discount ? You are not buying a car here bro. There are years of discussion. I truly believe that, so far, India already got this plane for the lowest price compared to other countries.
Running cost looks good, spare support will be there since huge countries were using it.
You guess.... Wrong. The logistical support of F35 and spare availability is a nightmare. There are even comparison with the was In Israel. The us support onto this war allowed Israel to flight these aircraft more, but it automatically reduced the availability rate of other aircraft on the world. Everything is centralised.
Another thing. When US is at war, the priority of the spare parts production goes to ... The US. It is the way it's done. During years, availability of F16 around the wold were impacted by this situation.

Only issue is IAF, IN does not like when things were getting poked. IN clearly done with US ships after Jalashwa. They are ok with Transport, ASW, drones from USA. Not capital ships. IAF historically shown displeasure with US aircrafts.
I wasn't aware about that.
 
F35 for now is a huge prototype production. Only the block 4 will provide good and complete capacity, but it still in development, software is not available yet with the tr3.
Within The rest of the fleet, the full mission capable availability rate is around 30% !...
 
With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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To estimate the takeoff distance of the F-35C without a catapult at 60% fuel and no weapons, we need to consider several aerodynamic and performance factors:

Step 1: Define Aircraft Parameters

Weight (W): 21,176 kg (from previous calculation)

Takeoff Speed (V_TO): Estimated 150 knots (77 m/s) for this configuration

Thrust (T): 191 kN (afterburner)

Wing Area (S): 62.1 m²

Lift Coefficient at Takeoff (C_L_TO): Estimated ~1.0 with flaps deployed

Drag Coefficient (C_D): Estimated ~0.03 in takeoff configuration

Air Density (ρ): 1.225 kg/m³ (at sea level)


Step 2: Calculate Lift (L) at Takeoff Speed

Lift equation:

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L ≈ 226.5 \text{ kN}

Since weight (21,176 kg × 9.81 m/s² = 207.7 kN) is lower than lift (226.5 kN), the aircraft can take off at this speed.

Step 3: Calculate Acceleration (a)

Net force equation:

F_{\text{net}} = T - D - R

Drag (D) =

Rolling resistance (R) ≈ 0.02 W (estimated for carrier decks)


D = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (0.03) \approx 6.8 \text{ kN}

R = 0.02 \times 207.7 \approx 4.2 \text{ kN} ]

F_{\text{net}} = 191 - 6.8 - 4.2 = 180 \text{ kN}

a = \frac{F_{\text{net}}}{m} = \frac{180,000}{21,176} \approx 8.5 \text{ m/s}^2 ]

Step 4: Estimate Takeoff Distance

Using kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

d = \frac{V^2}{2a} = \frac{(77)^2}{2(8.5)} ]

d ≈ 350 \text{ m}

Conclusion: Estimated Takeoff Distance

Takeoff run ≈ 350 meters (1150 feet) on a flat surface.


Now for, F-35C Takeoff from INS Vikrant's 14° Ski Jump (200m Runway)

Given:

Ski-jump angle: 14°

Ski-jump length: ~30m

Total available takeoff run: ~200m

Weight (60% fuel, no weapons): 21,176 kg

Thrust (afterburner): 191 kN

Lift coefficient (C_L_TO): ~1.0

Drag coefficient (C_D): ~0.03

Takeoff speed (V_TO, estimated): ~77 m/s (150 knots)

Acceleration (flat deck, calculated earlier): 8.5 m/s²



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Step 1: Check Acceleration Over 200m

Using the kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

V = \sqrt{2 (8.5) (200)} ]

V \approx 58 m/s

At 200m, the F-35C reaches ~58 m/s (112 knots), which is below the estimated takeoff speed of ~77 m/s. This means it would not take off purely based on runway acceleration—it relies on the ski jump.


---

Step 2: Effect of the 14° Ski Jump

The ski jump provides a vertical velocity component (V_y) upon exit:


V_y = V \sin(14^\circ)

V_y \approx 58 \times 0.241 ]

V_y \approx 14 m/s

The horizontal velocity (V_x) remains:


V_x = V \cos(14^\circ)

V_x \approx 58 \times 0.97 ]

V_x \approx 56 m/s

Total velocity after ski-jump:


V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{V_x^2 + V_y^2}

V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{56^2 + 14^2} \approx 58.7 \text{ m/s} ]


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Step 3: Check If F-35C Can Stay Airborne

The aircraft will stay airborne if lift force (L) is at least equal to weight (W).

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (58.7)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L \approx 161 \text{ kN}

Required lift (weight force):

W = 21,176 \times 9.81 = 207.7 \text{ kN}

Since 161 kN < 207.7 kN, the F-35C does not generate enough lift immediately after leaving the ski jump and would start descending.


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Step 4: Can the F-35C Recover in Flight?

The aircraft still has significant thrust (191 kN) vs. drag (~6.8 kN at 58 m/s), meaning it can accelerate further after launch.

The F-35C's high angle of attack (AoA) capability allows it to pitch up aggressively, increasing C_L to ~1.5-1.7, generating more lift.

If the pilot manages a smooth AoA transition, the aircraft may sustain flight after a brief altitude loss.



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Final Verdict: Can the F-35C Take Off from INS Vikrant?

Barely possible, but extremely risky.

Will experience altitude drop after the ski jump before regaining lift.

Would require perfect AoA control and afterburner thrust.

Would severely limit takeoff payload (no weapons, possibly less fuel).


Practical Answer: No, the F-35C is not suited for Vikrant's STOBAR setup. A STOVL aircraft like the F-35B or MiG-29K/Rafale-M with better low-speed handling is required.


We ain't getting f35 "C"
There's a reason UK went with F 35B for its carriers not the C varient
 

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