Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

With F-35 on the table, MRFA is dead. And Dassault is probably lying down right now. They might even lose the Rafale-M deal. The F-35C is 9.1 meters wide (wings folded), Vikrant's lift is 10.8 meters wide.
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Buying 36 Rafale was the worst decision we ever made. Again this makes IAF a lab for all aero manufacturers. We should have either gone for 126+ 54 for AF and Navy or zero. Going 36 made no sense at all. It would have been better if we bought ~90 SU 30 MKI and upgraded all 20 sq of them to Super Sukhoi standards. Don't know why we are not buying more Super Sukhois to fill the gap for MMRCA. No country has 3 weight classes of fighters, only the IAF dreams of one. Once the "Raptor" of Asia is now not even considered for high upgrades. While I am aware of the opex and maintenance issues with Su30MKI, getting so many types of fighters doesn't make any sense.

The way forward should be to make up the numbers with Super Sukhoi, and Tejas MK1A, retire your older fighter jets, and make way for MK2 and AMCA eventually. If you really want the 5th gen, then buy it for both the Navy and Airforce, no need to buy Rafale M when the F35 is on the table. Particularly the F35B can even be used from our LPD and it doesn't pose a threat to AMCA too.
If you want to make compromises, then go all in. Don't make half-hearted decisions like Rafale.
 
Buying 36 Rafale was the worst decision we ever made. Again this makes IAF a lab for all aero manufacturers. We should have either gone for 126+ 54 for AF and Navy or zero. Going 36 made no sense at all. It would have been better if we bought ~90 SU 30 MKI and upgraded all 20 sq of them to Super Sukhoi standards. Don't know why we are not buying more Super Sukhois to fill the gap for MMRCA. No country has 3 weight classes of fighters, only the IAF dreams of one. Once the "Raptor" of Asia is now not even considered for high upgrades. While I am aware of the opex and maintenance issues with Su30MKI, getting so many types of fighters doesn't make any sense.

The way forward should be to make up the numbers with Super Sukhoi, and Tejas MK1A, retire your older fighter jets, and make way for MK2 and AMCA eventually. If you really want the 5th gen, then buy it for both the Navy and Airforce, no need to buy Rafale M when the F35 is on the table. Particularly the F35B can even be used from our LPD and it doesn't pose a threat to AMCA too.
If you want to make compromises, then go all in. Don't make half-hearted decisions like Rafale.
Buying 36 Rafale wasn’t a mistake but not placing a follow on order in time for 54-72 is the mistake. If we had placed these orders by now IAF would be in better outlook to look for 5th gen fighters (indigenous AMCA or F35- Su57). Now we are stuck with only 36 and trump is dangling the F35 carrot.
 
Buying 36 Rafale wasn’t a mistake but not placing a follow on order in time for 54-72 is the mistake. If we had placed these orders by now IAF would be in better outlook to look for 5th gen fighters (indigenous AMCA or F35- Su57). Now we are stuck with only 36 and trump is dangling the F35 carrot.
Agreed, that's why I said buying only 36 Rafale was a mistake, we should have gone for at least 126 for AF and 54 for Navy making around 10 sq in India under the private-public partnership. It would have improved our squadron strength as well as given enough leverage again France to get a good engine deal. But now we are in 2025 and buying Rafales makes no sense anymore.
If we have to make up for our falling squadron, we should go with MK1A and Super Sukhoi, planes which are already in production.
If we going to buy off the self, buy a 5th gen, buying 4.5th gen makes no sense anymore.
 
To estimate the takeoff distance of the F-35C without a catapult at 60% fuel and no weapons, we need to consider several aerodynamic and performance factors:

Step 1: Define Aircraft Parameters

Weight (W): 21,176 kg (from previous calculation)

Takeoff Speed (V_TO): Estimated 150 knots (77 m/s) for this configuration

Thrust (T): 191 kN (afterburner)

Wing Area (S): 62.1 m²

Lift Coefficient at Takeoff (C_L_TO): Estimated ~1.0 with flaps deployed

Drag Coefficient (C_D): Estimated ~0.03 in takeoff configuration

Air Density (ρ): 1.225 kg/m³ (at sea level)


Step 2: Calculate Lift (L) at Takeoff Speed

Lift equation:

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L ≈ 226.5 \text{ kN}

Since weight (21,176 kg × 9.81 m/s² = 207.7 kN) is lower than lift (226.5 kN), the aircraft can take off at this speed.

Step 3: Calculate Acceleration (a)

Net force equation:

F_{\text{net}} = T - D - R

Drag (D) =

Rolling resistance (R) ≈ 0.02 W (estimated for carrier decks)


D = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (0.03) \approx 6.8 \text{ kN}

R = 0.02 \times 207.7 \approx 4.2 \text{ kN} ]

F_{\text{net}} = 191 - 6.8 - 4.2 = 180 \text{ kN}

a = \frac{F_{\text{net}}}{m} = \frac{180,000}{21,176} \approx 8.5 \text{ m/s}^2 ]

Step 4: Estimate Takeoff Distance

Using kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

d = \frac{V^2}{2a} = \frac{(77)^2}{2(8.5)} ]

d ≈ 350 \text{ m}

Conclusion: Estimated Takeoff Distance

Takeoff run ≈ 350 meters (1150 feet) on a flat surface.


Now for, F-35C Takeoff from INS Vikrant's 14° Ski Jump (200m Runway)

Given:

Ski-jump angle: 14°

Ski-jump length: ~30m

Total available takeoff run: ~200m

Weight (60% fuel, no weapons): 21,176 kg

Thrust (afterburner): 191 kN

Lift coefficient (C_L_TO): ~1.0

Drag coefficient (C_D): ~0.03

Takeoff speed (V_TO, estimated): ~77 m/s (150 knots)

Acceleration (flat deck, calculated earlier): 8.5 m/s²



---

Step 1: Check Acceleration Over 200m

Using the kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

V = \sqrt{2 (8.5) (200)} ]

V \approx 58 m/s

At 200m, the F-35C reaches ~58 m/s (112 knots), which is below the estimated takeoff speed of ~77 m/s. This means it would not take off purely based on runway acceleration—it relies on the ski jump.


---

Step 2: Effect of the 14° Ski Jump

The ski jump provides a vertical velocity component (V_y) upon exit:


V_y = V \sin(14^\circ)

V_y \approx 58 \times 0.241 ]

V_y \approx 14 m/s

The horizontal velocity (V_x) remains:


V_x = V \cos(14^\circ)

V_x \approx 58 \times 0.97 ]

V_x \approx 56 m/s

Total velocity after ski-jump:


V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{V_x^2 + V_y^2}

V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{56^2 + 14^2} \approx 58.7 \text{ m/s} ]


---

Step 3: Check If F-35C Can Stay Airborne

The aircraft will stay airborne if lift force (L) is at least equal to weight (W).

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (58.7)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L \approx 161 \text{ kN}

Required lift (weight force):

W = 21,176 \times 9.81 = 207.7 \text{ kN}

Since 161 kN < 207.7 kN, the F-35C does not generate enough lift immediately after leaving the ski jump and would start descending.


---

Step 4: Can the F-35C Recover in Flight?

The aircraft still has significant thrust (191 kN) vs. drag (~6.8 kN at 58 m/s), meaning it can accelerate further after launch.

The F-35C's high angle of attack (AoA) capability allows it to pitch up aggressively, increasing C_L to ~1.5-1.7, generating more lift.

If the pilot manages a smooth AoA transition, the aircraft may sustain flight after a brief altitude loss.



---

Final Verdict: Can the F-35C Take Off from INS Vikrant?

Barely possible, but extremely risky.

Will experience altitude drop after the ski jump before regaining lift.

Would require perfect AoA control and afterburner thrust.

Would severely limit takeoff payload (no weapons, possibly less fuel).


Practical Answer: No, the F-35C is not suited for Vikrant's STOBAR setup. A STOVL aircraft like the F-35B or MiG-29K/Rafale-M with better low-speed handling is required.


We ain't getting f35 "C"
There's a reason UK went with F 35B for its carriers not the C varient
:faint::faint2:
 
Agreed, that's why I said buying only 36 Rafale was a mistake, we should have gone for at least 126 for AF and 54 for Navy making around 10 sq in India under the private-public partnership. It would have improved our squadron strength as well as given enough leverage again France to get a good engine deal. But now we are in 2025 and buying Rafales makes no sense anymore.
If we have to make up for our falling squadron, we should go with MK1A and Super Sukhoi, planes which are already in production.
If we going to buy off the self, buy a 5th gen, buying 4.5th gen makes no sense anymore.
Still we can add 36 more Rafales to the existing fleet to make the presence of Rafale meaningful and then buy 114 MRFA 5th Gen F35. MK1A we’re going for additional 99 and minimum 5 squadrons of MK2. Upgrade su 30 MKi and hope for AMCA to come by 2040.
 
Still we can add 36 more Rafales to the existing fleet to make the presence of Rafale meaningful and then buy 114 MRFA 5th Gen F35. MK1A we’re going for additional 99 and minimum 5 squadrons of MK2. Upgrade su 30 MKi and hope for AMCA to come by 2040.
We don't have the budget to buy 36 rafales and 114 MRFA (Su57 or F35) at the same time.
Going by the staggered purchase we have done in the last few acquisitions, it will either be ~54 F35 or similar numbers of Su57.
I personally would prefer Su57 and use its technology to develop Super Sukhoi and AMCA. While the F35 is a much superior aircraft, we won't be getting any ToT and even integration with the existing setup will be a headache. I am not even talking about so many baggaes it will come with.
While Su57 would be a more seamless integration into IAF and Russians would be much more amiable in providing core ToT. We can leverage their weak economic situation to get a better deal, unlike in the F35 deal, wherein we might weaken IAF's sovereignty.
 
Did our squadron deplete to 30 because current LCA order's delivery is delayed by 1 year ?
ACM is barking up the wrong tree.

ACM is barking up one of the trees responsible. Others are GoI, MoD, and IAF themselves.

Today Pakis have signed deal with Turkiya to acquire this... numbers unknown

View attachment 25082

& our generals/marshals/admirals are wondering & commenting about state of Paki economy instead of doing their...

And people will appreciate this decision while blaming Armed Forces for trying to acquire similar platform which is not made promised to be made by HAL.

Tell me the best possible alternative to HAL that we currently have and I'll go personally drop a 2000lbs on HAL's headquarters.

Nothing, privatise the PSUs with upper management poached from L&T / Aditya Birla / Tata and engineers poached from IITs & FAANGs.

Then see them churning out AMCA within 2030.
 
Su57 , f35 and rafale !

Now IAF can buy the best from anywhere USA , europe or Russia.

It is obvious IAF will double down on rafale given that now navy has gone for it too.

Btw no deal announcement in france visit by PM??

AMCA is now 2035-40 project for production which means 2045 for mature operational readiness.

So need something to hold the fort for these 20 years.

Trump's offer won't be without multiple strings attached.

MRFA bas yet to begun.

Su57 mark 2 is still not mature enough. Then it will require mki-zation to make it upto IAF mark.

So safest course of action!

Double down on AMCA mk1. Increase its budget and prototype funding. Allow first 40 jets to fly with lca mk2 avionics as it is.
Upgrade them later.

Meanwhile get the IAF 72 more rafales along with Navy's 26 get the manufacturing line in india with 98 jets order .

Order more Amca mk1 and rafale later if Amca mk2 is delayed.

Everything else is just harakiri at this point.
 
You know why this happened?View attachment 25142

Pakistan bitchslapped IAF out of the sky & paraded around blindfolded, because when Jf-17 was in similar shaky status as Tejas at early 2010s... They backed it with their full force & inducted 50 without BVRs, while ours called it a 3-legged chertah.
And today IAF has to celebrate barely surviving AAMs from an inferior Air Force & make face-saving claims that literally noone other than Indian civilians were fooled by.

Combat is an extension of politics & policies.

JF-17 played no significant role on 2019 skirmish apart from being just targets flying in the sky. The main offensive operation was led by F-16s & Mirage III ROSE.

Even if today skirmish breaks out I doubt JF-17s will see any frontline action apart from being absolute point defence fighters. Heavy carrying will be done by F-16s and J-10s.

If you are trying to argue JF-17s use-case as an indiginization drive success then you are just making fun of yourself.
 

> le frontier indica
:bplease::bplease::bplease::bplease::bplease::bplease:
bhai, i know this guy from my days of teligram misadventures, i was part of his group and channel...this guy's been doxxed many times by his own stupidities, and as per available info, he's a pahadi, either from himachal or uttaranchal (don't remember much) and he's quite kanglu-tier in looks...with dark complexion and literally neckbeard and bowl-cut hairs :bplease:

and needlessly to say, he's a giga b#o$dapiller about every random things...

when i got bored with his group, i just put one of his doxxed photo there with some funny comment and within two minutes he got enraged and blocked me from not only his group but channel and other places ran by him too lmao :smiley-crying: crybaby kahika
 
ACM is barking up one of the trees responsible. Others are GoI, MoD, and IAF themselves.



And people will appreciate this decision while blaming Armed Forces for trying to acquire similar platform which is not made promised to be made by HAL.



Nothing, privatise the PSUs with upper management poached from L&T / Aditya Birla / Tata and engineers poached from IITs & FAANGs.

Then see them churning out AMCA within 2030.
How can u churn AMCA within 2030s
Ur IITians or FAANG engineers arent some sort of super humans
When its industrial norm for T+36 months to deliver LRUs and other systems u cant do much
Now recently users have asked to change design to handle more stress
These things will linger this is how things are point is iaf doesnt time
Testing such complicated systems will again take time as u will have many errors bugs and problems especially country like ours where industry is barely present
 
Do we have official confirmation from Indian Govt sources about F35 procurement or we are just speculating gormint babus might fumble n buy this over priced bird....

Nothing. It's just speculation and hyperventilation from fanbois. Trump just said it casually knowing that saying such stuff harms no one. It's just some signaling/messaging that USA is good friends with India - in the sense that they're ready to sell their prized possession despite us having the S400, whereas the same privilege isn't being extended to the ice-cream sellers. They know very well that they don't have the burden of selling it to India when we won't even be buying them.
 
Nothing. It's just speculation and hyperventilation from fanbois. Trump just said it casually knowing that saying such stuff harms no one. It's just some signaling/messaging that USA is good friends with India - in the sense that they're ready to sell their prized possession despite us having the S400, whereas the same privilege isn't being extended to the ice-cream sellers. They know very well that they don't have the burden of selling it to India when we won't even be buying them.
Last time I heard that F35 doesn't work with any communication infrastructure that's not NATO.
They don't even allow any modifications on that jet, exception was only given for Israel.
Maybe it was just a ploy to stall su57 procurement.
 
JF-17 played no significant role on 2019 skirmish apart from being just targets flying in the sky. The main offensive operation was led by F-16s & Mirage III ROSE.

Even if today skirmish breaks out I doubt JF-17s will see any frontline action apart from being absolute point defence fighters. Heavy carrying will be done by F-16s and J-10s.

If you are trying to argue JF-17s use-case as an indiginization drive success then you are just making fun of yourself.

Indians do have to cope a lot about it, but so will the Tejas on our side.
Additionally, Pakistani stand always had been that F-16s moved in to keep Abhinandan engaged while Jf-17s sniped him, from the Day 1.

...& if they really got PL-15 then it's definitely better than Su-30 at BVRs rn.
 

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