Indian Air Force: News & Discussions


According to this article, only 2 squadrons, which makes no sense. Neither will you achieve any credible deterrence, while spending a fortune to maintain them.
 
I think this euphoria around F-35 will die down in a week to 10 days time as there are huge reservations on both sides.

As per the joint statement the US has already set Stryker/Javelin/P-8I for this year's "hegemon tax" quota.

India is a non serious nation... I have repeatedly said... without a military humiliation that cannot be media managed (like Balakot & Ladakh) nothing positive is going to happen.

Modi has remained(for the most part) undefeated in elections... he is writing the script for his defeat on the battlefield with all his humongous delusions like Vasudhaiva kutumbkam, yudh nahi... buddha, not an era of war etc.

He wishes to become taller than Nehru... he will get a worse defeat than Nehru got in 1962.

Nobody has won either on Western border or northern border. Chinese intimidate only with numbers. But now those numbers have been equalized. They need five times more military strength to cross the northern passes to cross into India for invasion. Once in India, they are trapped. Hence, They will cleverly do skirmishes only. That score, India can equalize by attacking their major road network.

Pakistan is a Jehadi state. They talk more than they deliver especially with a begging bowl in hand. They have lost 4 wars and 5th war if fought will be final and then the wars with them are over. Nobody in their friends will let them use nuclear weapons because return salvo will be so great that none will be left in Pakistan for Jehad.

So have confidence, don’t go by propaganda. The Pakistanis don’t have money to buy petroleum to fly their planes or move their tanks, let alone fight a war. Their propaganda machine is army controlled who pretend to be very confident.

Cheers
 
To estimate the takeoff distance of the F-35C without a catapult at 60% fuel and no weapons, we need to consider several aerodynamic and performance factors:

Step 1: Define Aircraft Parameters

Weight (W): 21,176 kg (from previous calculation)

Takeoff Speed (V_TO): Estimated 150 knots (77 m/s) for this configuration

Thrust (T): 191 kN (afterburner)

Wing Area (S): 62.1 m²

Lift Coefficient at Takeoff (C_L_TO): Estimated ~1.0 with flaps deployed

Drag Coefficient (C_D): Estimated ~0.03 in takeoff configuration

Air Density (ρ): 1.225 kg/m³ (at sea level)


Step 2: Calculate Lift (L) at Takeoff Speed

Lift equation:

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L ≈ 226.5 \text{ kN}

Since weight (21,176 kg × 9.81 m/s² = 207.7 kN) is lower than lift (226.5 kN), the aircraft can take off at this speed.

Step 3: Calculate Acceleration (a)

Net force equation:

F_{\text{net}} = T - D - R

Drag (D) =

Rolling resistance (R) ≈ 0.02 W (estimated for carrier decks)


D = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (0.03) \approx 6.8 \text{ kN}

R = 0.02 \times 207.7 \approx 4.2 \text{ kN} ]

F_{\text{net}} = 191 - 6.8 - 4.2 = 180 \text{ kN}

a = \frac{F_{\text{net}}}{m} = \frac{180,000}{21,176} \approx 8.5 \text{ m/s}^2 ]

Step 4: Estimate Takeoff Distance

Using kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

d = \frac{V^2}{2a} = \frac{(77)^2}{2(8.5)} ]

d ≈ 350 \text{ m}

Conclusion: Estimated Takeoff Distance

Takeoff run ≈ 350 meters (1150 feet) on a flat surface.


Now for, F-35C Takeoff from INS Vikrant's 14° Ski Jump (200m Runway)

Given:

Ski-jump angle: 14°

Ski-jump length: ~30m

Total available takeoff run: ~200m

Weight (60% fuel, no weapons): 21,176 kg

Thrust (afterburner): 191 kN

Lift coefficient (C_L_TO): ~1.0

Drag coefficient (C_D): ~0.03

Takeoff speed (V_TO, estimated): ~77 m/s (150 knots)

Acceleration (flat deck, calculated earlier): 8.5 m/s²



---

Step 1: Check Acceleration Over 200m

Using the kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

V = \sqrt{2 (8.5) (200)} ]

V \approx 58 m/s

At 200m, the F-35C reaches ~58 m/s (112 knots), which is below the estimated takeoff speed of ~77 m/s. This means it would not take off purely based on runway acceleration—it relies on the ski jump.


---

Step 2: Effect of the 14° Ski Jump

The ski jump provides a vertical velocity component (V_y) upon exit:


V_y = V \sin(14^\circ)

V_y \approx 58 \times 0.241 ]

V_y \approx 14 m/s

The horizontal velocity (V_x) remains:


V_x = V \cos(14^\circ)

V_x \approx 58 \times 0.97 ]

V_x \approx 56 m/s

Total velocity after ski-jump:


V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{V_x^2 + V_y^2}

V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{56^2 + 14^2} \approx 58.7 \text{ m/s} ]


---

Step 3: Check If F-35C Can Stay Airborne

The aircraft will stay airborne if lift force (L) is at least equal to weight (W).

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (58.7)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L \approx 161 \text{ kN}

Required lift (weight force):

W = 21,176 \times 9.81 = 207.7 \text{ kN}

Since 161 kN < 207.7 kN, the F-35C does not generate enough lift immediately after leaving the ski jump and would start descending.


---

Step 4: Can the F-35C Recover in Flight?

The aircraft still has significant thrust (191 kN) vs. drag (~6.8 kN at 58 m/s), meaning it can accelerate further after launch.

The F-35C's high angle of attack (AoA) capability allows it to pitch up aggressively, increasing C_L to ~1.5-1.7, generating more lift.

If the pilot manages a smooth AoA transition, the aircraft may sustain flight after a brief altitude loss.



---

Final Verdict: Can the F-35C Take Off from INS Vikrant?

Barely possible, but extremely risky.

Will experience altitude drop after the ski jump before regaining lift.

Would require perfect AoA control and afterburner thrust.

Would severely limit takeoff payload (no weapons, possibly less fuel).


Practical Answer: No, the F-35C is not suited for Vikrant's STOBAR setup. A STOVL aircraft like the F-35B or MiG-29K/Rafale-M with better low-speed handling is required.


We ain't getting f35 "C"
There's a reason UK went with F 35B for its carriers not the C varient
1+1 = 11
 
Buying 36 Rafale was the worst decision we ever made. Again this makes IAF a lab for all aero manufacturers. We should have either gone for 126+ 54 for AF and Navy or zero. Going 36 made no sense at all. It would have been better if we bought ~90 SU 30 MKI and upgraded all 20 sq of them to Super Sukhoi standards. Don't know why we are not buying more Super Sukhois to fill the gap for MMRCA. No country has 3 weight classes of fighters, only the IAF dreams of one. Once the "Raptor" of Asia is now not even considered for high upgrades. While I am aware of the opex and maintenance issues with Su30MKI, getting so many types of fighters doesn't make any sense.

The way forward should be to make up the numbers with Super Sukhoi, and Tejas MK1A, retire your older fighter jets, and make way for MK2 and AMCA eventually. If you really want the 5th gen, then buy it for both the Navy and Airforce, no need to buy Rafale M when the F35 is on the table. Particularly the F35B can even be used from our LPD and it doesn't pose a threat to AMCA too.
If you want to make compromises, then go all in. Don't make half-hearted decisions like Rafale.
My assumption was that the 36 Rafale were primarily ordered to replace the Mirages in a nuclear delivery role. The IAF is already a zoo and I dislike adding more types of fighters. However, if 36 Rafale are required for air launched nuclear capability then maybe the cost is acceptable. Hopefully, in the future the AMCA can fulfil this role.
 
However, if 36 Rafale are required for air launched nuclear capability then maybe the cost is acceptable.
• We don't have air launched nuclear missiles that need dedicated platforms. Heck we don't even have any guided nuclear bomb, atleast in public knowledge.
• Anything that's not a warhead for ballistic missiles are just good ol' dumb bomb where you "authorise" it on ground and then just drop it. Even the MiG-21s were theoretically capable of carrying the RN-24 nuclear bomb.
• Even if we've a secret nuclear munition then also a foreign fighter whose source code we don't have makes the worst platform for nuclear delivery.
My assumption was that the 36 Rafale were primarily ordered to replace the Mirages in a nuclear delivery role.
• Order 0 Rafale; IAF - 😡 and Opposition - 😃
• Order 126 Rafale; IAF - 😃 and Opposition - 😡
• Something in between 0 - 126; IAF - 😏 and Opposition - 😏

I know it's extremely complicated and all technological, but that's my theory.
 
We don't have air launched nuclear missiles that need dedicated platforms. Heck we don't even have any guided nuclear bomb, atleast in public knowledge.
• Anything that's not a warhead for ballistic missiles are just good ol' dumb bomb where you "authorise" it on ground and then just drop it. Even the MiG-21s were theoretically capable of carrying the RN-24 nuclear bomb.
• Even if we've a secret nuclear munition then also a foreign fighter whose source code we don't have makes the worst platform for nuclear delivery.
Even if you don't have any guided bomb or missile, and this kind of "dumb" bomb can be delivered technically by any aircraft doesn't mean that it is a suitable aircraft for the role.

Rafale is made to penetrate deeply into ennemi territory. Not sure you'll have the same survivability with other aircraft. Not because there are bad aircraft, but because there are not made for this.

With Rafale B you can carry one passenger. That does not mean that it is a transport aircraft :)
It is a dumb example, but...
 
How can you be so sure ?
Numbers floating around are somewhere between 2-3 squadrons. 36-50… I have a contact within TASL who told me this news just yesterday that they feel very confident that F-35 will be ordered because IAF is genuinely interested and also the Trump threat of sanctions is forcing GoI’s hands. He told me by June DSCA notification should come. The main point of contention for IAF is that the want AN/APG 85 not 81. Also, IAF is keen to integrate its own desi SOWs and PGMs. TASL makes F-16 wings iirc. They are a part of the LM ecosystem but believe what u want. I could be wrong.
 
IAF was highly impressed by the Israeli strikes in Iran last year, especially with the F-35s running SEAD/DEAD ops deep within Iran. Iran took a brutal beating. They won’t raise that red flag of revenge anymore, as it’s basically a sign of Khomenei’s menstrual periods.
 
Well let’s see. By June, we will know what the reality is.
anoucements. Guesses. There is anything but this here. As a foreigner it is really hard to follow forums in India, in which guesses give birth to rumors, and rumors are often interpretates as facts, facts become news, news feeds facts, and then you are swimming into parrallel reality in which everything you though was a reallity are, for real, nothing.

to reply to the two of your last comments about "IAF was really impressed by...". It was same for Mirage 2000 after Kargil war. They were supposed to buy a lot. But...
Same for Rafale, there were supposed to buy a lot, but... Then MMRCA, MMRCA 2.0, MRFA... Even in the 3 last pages of this topic people are saying "with MRFA we WILL" while there is a commity ongoin which supposed to give an answer about the way they will proceed "contender or not ? G2G or not ?"
how much time people came here to tell us that "they will..." And the worse ? Announce some dates that are NEVER respected.

Here in France we are talking about Indian time, by joking, we are telling than when someone in announcing something with a schedule, you take the schedule and multiply it by a factor between 3 and 5.

So I don't know if you understand each other and we are here in something related to cultural differences (I work a lot with Indian people - and I love it), but it could be great that you use conditional when there is a possibility, even tiny, that the information you'll provide is not 100% sure. It is an advice not for you, but a least for foreigners guys that reads you in order to get intel, which doesn't understand you sometimes, and can misunderstand you.
 
• We don't have air launched nuclear missiles that need dedicated platforms. Heck we don't even have any guided nuclear bomb, atleast in public knowledge.
• Anything that's not a warhead for ballistic missiles are just good ol' dumb bomb where you "authorise" it on ground and then just drop it. Even the MiG-21s were theoretically capable of carrying the RN-24 nuclear bomb.
• Even if we've a secret nuclear munition then also a foreign fighter whose source code we don't have makes the worst platform for nuclear delivery.

• Order 0 Rafale; IAF - 😡 and Opposition - 😃
• Order 126 Rafale; IAF - 😃 and Opposition - 😡
• Something in between 0 - 126; IAF - 😏 and Opposition - 😏

I know it's extremely complicated and all technological, but that's my theory.
Regardless of whether F-35 comes or not, 18-36 more Rafale for IAF will happen. Sunk cost fallacy and all that. That's 2 squadrons out of 6 of the old MRFA requirement. So maybe we're looking at 4 squadron's worth, around 80 F-35s if IAF and GoI have the intent.
 
anoucements. Guesses. There is anything but this here. As a foreigner it is really hard to follow forums in India, in which guesses give birth to rumors, and rumors are often interpretates as facts, facts become news, news feeds facts, and then you are swimming into parrallel reality in which everything you though was a reallity are, for real, nothing.

to reply to the two of your last comments about "IAF was really impressed by...". It was same for Mirage 2000 after Kargil war. They were supposed to buy a lot. But...
Same for Rafale, there were supposed to buy a lot, but... Then MMRCA, MMRCA 2.0, MRFA... Even in the 3 last pages of this topic people are saying "with MRFA we WILL" while there is a commity ongoin which supposed to give an answer about the way they will proceed "contender or not ? G2G or not ?"
how much time people came here to tell us that "they will..." And the worse ? Announce some dates that are NEVER respected.

Here in France we are talking about Indian time, by joking, we are telling than when someone in announcing something with a schedule, you take the schedule and multiply it by a factor between 3 and 5.

So I don't know if you understand each other and we are here in something related to cultural differences (I work a lot with Indian people - and I love it), but it could be great that you use conditional when there is a possibility, even tiny, that the information you'll provide is not 100% sure. It is an advice not for you, but a least for foreigners guys that reads you in order to get intel, which doesn't understand you sometimes, and can misunderstand you.
Well obviously I don’t work for Indian govt or the Indian Air Force. Neither do the people on this forum. None of us can give the complete truth.
 
Well obviously I don’t work for Indian govt or the Indian Air Force. Neither do the people on this forum. None of us can give the complete truth.
So I suggest you to write something like that instead :" hey guys, I have good insight off what may happens. Here the rumors : IAF is well impressed by... And so they would like to order..."
And so your message is 100% true and not misunderstandable.
 
Numbers floating around are somewhere between 2-3 squadrons. 36-50… I have a contact within TASL who told me this news just yesterday that they feel very confident that F-35 will be ordered because IAF is genuinely interested and also the Trump threat of sanctions is forcing GoI’s hands. He told me by June DSCA notification should come. The main point of contention for IAF is that the want AN/APG 85 not 81. Also, IAF is keen to integrate its own desi SOWs and PGMs. TASL makes F-16 wings iirc. They are a part of the LM ecosystem but believe what u want. I could be wrong.
No company is a good source.
Government decides these things.
Until final confirmation happens we can't say what has higher chances of happening
 
Nobody has won either on Western border or northern border. Chinese intimidate only with numbers. But now those numbers have been equalized. They need five times more military strength to cross the northern passes to cross into India for invasion. Once in India, they are trapped. Hence, They will cleverly do skirmishes only. That score, India can equalize by attacking their major road network.

Pakistan is a Jehadi state. They talk more than they deliver especially with a begging bowl in hand. They have lost 4 wars and 5th war if fought will be final and then the wars with them are over. Nobody in their friends will let them use nuclear weapons because return salvo will be so great that none will be left in Pakistan for Jehad.

So have confidence, don’t go by propaganda. The Pakistanis don’t have money to buy petroleum to fly their planes or move their tanks, let alone fight a war. Their propaganda machine is army controlled who pretend to be very confident.

Cheers
Cheers
 
So I suggest you to write something like that instead :" hey guys, I have good insight off what may happens. Here the rumors : IAF is well impressed by... And so they would like to order..."
And so your message is 100% true and not misunderstandable.

I dont think anyone other than Modi at this point of time has any idea on this.

It may just happen India just to keep the biggest goon on planet pacified purchase couple of squadrons of F-35 off the shelf and few more if Republicans are repeated in 2029
 

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