Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (27 Viewers)

[jaijaganath]

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/procurement-of-97-upgraded-tejas-mk-1a-jets-from-hal-likely-to-begin-in-fy27-govt-official-13101435.html

 

[Noob_Saibot]

If the news about Pak getting 40 plus J-35s is true (along with other toys, we are basically going to lose any capability advantage we had and actually be at a disadvantage.

Bad news.

Screw these politician scum who are responsible for this current predicament.

Anyone thumbing their noses at the Su 57 and bigging up asymmetric bs and plain nonsense like IRST picking up stealth aircraft while taking off, be prepared for an aggressive Pakistan.

While we wait 15 years for the paper plane that is the AMCA, our enemies will be upgrading further.

Time to double our nuke warheads as that will be the only deterrent we have. No more minimum credible deterrent bs or no first use policy.

Put the fear of god and MAD in our enemies hearts.

I never thought i would be saying this but frickin PAF will have the advantage over IAF tech wise in a couple of years.

All due to the visionless parasites ruling the country.

 

[Ajatshatru]

If the news about Pak getting 40 plus J-35s is true (along with other toys, we are basically going to lose any capability advantage we had and actually be at a disadvantage.

Bad news.

Screw these politician scum who are responsible for this current predicament.

Anyone thumbing their noses at the Su 57 and bigging up asymmetric bs and plain nonsense like IRST picking up stealth aircraft while taking off, be prepared for an aggressive Pakistan.

While we wait 15 years for the paper plane that is the AMCA, our enemies will be upgrading further.

Time to double our nuke warheads as that will be the only deterrent we have. No more minimum credible deterrent bs or no first use policy.

Put the fear of god and MAD in our enemies hearts.

I never thought i would be saying this but frickin PAF will have the advantage over IAF tech wise in a couple of years.

All due to the visionless parasites ruling the country.

The first flight of the AMCA is scheduled for 2030. I heard Baba Kalyani mention that projects like these no longer take 15–20 years as they did in the past; now, they will progress much more quickly.

 

[Noob_Saibot]

The first flight of the AMCA is scheduled for 2030. I heard Baba Kalyani mention that projects like these no longer take 15–20 years as they did in the past; now, they will progress much more quickly.

That might be the case, but to put all our eggs in the AMCA basket and hope that everything is on schedule(a massive red flag considering our history with the Tejas) will be suicidal.

Even if everything goes to plan, we are not seeing induction before 2035, when the Chinese will most probably be flying 6th gen and the Pakis will have 3-4 squadrons of 5th gen for at least 7-8 years.

That's a decade of capability gaps we will have to deal with and hope we can deal with it.

Not good enough.

When the chinese starting inducting 5th gen a decade ago, we should have seen this coming. Paki scum were guaranteed to get it at some point.

We sat on our arses and did nothing about it, ergo, now we are in a very difficult position and literally have no short term options apart from 'asymmetry' , whatever that means.

 

[Ajatshatru]

That might be the case, but to put all our eggs in the AMCA basket and hope that everything is on schedule(a massive red flag considering our history with the Tejas) will be suicidal.

Even if everything goes to plan, we are not seeing induction before 2035, when the Chinese will most probably be flying 6th gen and the Pakis will have 3-4 squadrons of 5th gen for at least 7-8 years.

That's a decade of capability gaps we will have to deal with and hope we can deal with it.

Not good enough.

When the chinese starting inducting 5th gen a decade ago, we should have seen this coming. Paki scum were guaranteed to get it at some point.

We sat on our arses and did nothing about it, ergo, now we are in a very difficult position and literally have no short term options apart from 'asymmetry' , whatever that means.

Opting for the F-35 remains a viable option, even with its associated conditions, until the AMCA is ready.

 

[Noob_Saibot]

Opting for the F-35 remains a viable option, even with its associated conditions, until the AMCA is ready.

As i said in the other thread, it has a massive backlog and no hope for any deliveries before the early 2030s.

And that is IF we ever manage to negotiate a deal, given the stringent processes a potential deal has to go through to be approved.

And it will come with do mant atrings attached, the Americans might as well be controlling it.

The only semi realistic option is Su-57 but that opens us to all kinds of bs like CAATSA and other sanctions that may kick our economy. Unless we manage to convince the Americans that urgent national security needs warrant a waiver.

 

[shade2]

Opting for the F-35 remains a viable option, even with its associated conditions, until the AMCA is ready.

>Buy F-35
>Deliveries start in 2035 because of backlog and ((( supply chain issues ))) exclusive to India apparently
>T&C includes you can't use it without prior intimation of US
>Pakis also know this
>Plane remains Hangar Queen

Well atleast this will prevent rudali Endians from weeping about $786 billion lost with a Rafale shootdown.
It will be nice to see them only at air shows and republic day flypast, not lobbing their AIM-420 at Paki Madarsas or Fighterjets because Uncle Sam won't allow that

 

[sunnyv]

Not just diplomatically but tactically also F35 dosen't fit with the infrastructure of IAF. Not only IAF but also most other Air-Forces. That's why most Air-Forces which operate F-35 can not utilize its full potential.

F-35 works as a system of systems. The internal sensors and Radar operate at Gigabit speeds which is way faster than Mil-1553 (BNET-SDR of IAF). The F-35's Fibrechannel data bus transfers data at 1 gbit/sec in comparison to Link 16 transfer speed up to 1 mbit/sec similar to The MIL-STD-1553 data transfers speeds at 1 mbit/sec (Rafale Sukhoi Migs Tejas ).
We are still in process of standardizing ODL to every platform whether in ground or in air. How do you expect IAF to move from 1553 Bus to 1773 in 2-3 years.


F-35 uses Oracle Cloud designed specifically for Isolated area with lightening fast data transmission to provide a battlefield picture, will Indian firm be able to do that in limited funds to network that data to IACCS. Link
Oracle F35

USAF has moved to MADL with billions of investments , with fund limitation IAF wont be able to do that. (Even though official specs of US Satcom data speed still is not available.). Just impossible to imagine that F-35 integrates with LPI network of India which makes BigBird Radar/NIP BARS radar data to seamlessly fuse data of DASS to provide an exceptional SA to every platform. Our AirChief will have Migraine.

We need AMCA at the earliest with India specific build requirements.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Not just diplomatically but tactically also F35 dosen't fit with the infrastructure of IAF. Not only IAF but also most other Air-Forces. That's why most Air-Forces which operate F-35 can not utilize its full potential.

F-35 works as a system of systems. The internal sensors and Radar operate at Gigabit speeds which is way faster than Mil-1553 (BNET-SDR of IAF). The F-35's Fibrechannel data bus transfers data at 1 gbit/sec in comparison to Link 16 transfer speed up to 1 mbit/sec similar to The MIL-STD-1553 data transfers speeds at 1 mbit/sec (Rafale Sukhoi Migs Tejas ).
We are still in process of standardizing ODL to every platform whether in ground or in air. How do you expect IAF to move from 1553 Bus to 1773 in 2-3 years.


F-35 uses Oracle Cloud designed specifically for Isolated area with lightening fast data transmission to provide a battlefield picture, will Indian firm be able to do that in limited funds to network that data to IACCS. Link
Oracle F35

USAF has moved to MADL with billions of investments , with fund limitation IAF wont be able to do that. (Even though official specs of US Satcom data speed still is not available.). Just impossible to imagine that F-35 integrates with LPI network of India which makes BigBird Radar/NIP BARS radar data to seamlessly fuse data of DASS to provide an exceptional SA to every platform. Our AirChief will have Migraine.

We need AMCA at the earliest with India specific build requirements.

Did some AI research:

BNET-AR is designed as a broadband IP networking solution for large-scale airborne operations, supporting up to 1000+ users with high-capacity data sharing across multiple platforms.


MADL is a stealth-optimized tactical data link specifically designed for small groups of 5th-generation aircraft operating in high-threat environments, prioritizing low detectability over network scale.

Technical Specifications​

Frequency Bands​

• BNET-AR: 30-512 MHz (VHF/UHF), with optional L-band and S-band extensions
• MADL: Ku-band (12-18 GHz)

Data Capacity​

• BNET-AR: >100 Mbps overall capacity, up to 10 Mbps per user upload rate
• MADL: "High data rate" (specific rates classified, but optimized for tactical data sharing rather than high-volume networking)

Network Scale​

• BNET-AR: Highly scalable (+1000 users), designed for large force operations
• MADL: Limited scale (typically 4-ship flight groups), designed for coordinated stealth operations

Range & Coverage​

• BNET-AR: Wide-area coverage using lower frequency bands with better propagation
• MADL: Shorter range but highly directional beams for stealth preservation

Operational Differences​

Mission Focus​

• BNET-AR: Multi-domain operations, supports various platforms and mission types with emphasis on high-capacity networking
• MADL: Stealth air operations, specifically F-35 coordination in contested environments

Interoperability​

• BNET-AR: Open architecture (VITA 65), SCA 2.2.2 compliant, supports multiple waveforms including custom ones
• MADL: Proprietary US system, limited to specific platforms (F-35, planned for B-2)

Detectability​

• BNET-AR: Standard ECCM with frequency hopping and spread spectrum
• MADL: Advanced LPI/LPD (Low Probability of Intercept/Detection) specifically designed for stealth preservation

Platform Integration​

Physical Characteristics​

• BNET-AR: Modular system, 10kg, 700W max power, 1/2 ATR Short form factor
• MADL: Integrated into F-35's CNI system using embedded phased array antennas

RF Capability​

• BNET-AR: Up to 3 independent 50W RF heads for multi-channel operations
• MADL: Integrated directional antennas optimized for stealth aircraft geometry

Strategic Implications​

BNET-AR represents an exportable commercial solution suitable for allies and partners seeking advanced airborne networking capabilities for conventional operations.


MADL is a restricted US capability designed specifically for maintaining technological superiority in stealth operations and is not available for export.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Is MADL even being used by any airforces other than USAF?

Do Chinese have a similar LPI focused (Ku band) TDL for their stealth fleet and will that be accessible to PAF?

 

[sunnyv]

Is MADL even being used by any airforces other than USAF?

Do Chinese have a similar LPI focused (Ku band) TDL for their stealth fleet and will that be accessible to PAF?

Doubt that.
IDF might have ODL capable enough and with LPI to harness the full capability of F-35. Rest i doubt including PLA

 

[snakeeyes07]

Doubt that.
IDF might have ODL capable enough and with LPI to harness the full capability of F-35. Rest i doubt including PLA

Then that's one way to detect Chinese stealth fighters, particularly PAF J35s with their geography.

 

[sunnyv]

Then that's one way to detect Chinese stealth fighters, particularly PAF J35s with their geography.

That's where Electronic warfare spectrum comes into the game.
By the way why on earth are Arab Sheikhs going hitech with Mil1773 buses.
Link F16 1773

 

[snakeeyes07]

That's where Electronic warfare spectrum comes into the game.
By the way why on earth are Arab Sheikhs going hitech with Mil1773 buses.
Link F16 1773

I initially thought maybe to keep up with Israeli F35s but the country in question being UAE then maybe capability enhancement vis-a-vis Iran/Houthi.

 

[randombully]

Is MADL even being used by any airforces other than USAF?

Do Chinese have a similar LPI focused (Ku band) TDL for their stealth fleet and will that be accessible to PAF?

By now china should have ku band communication node for stealth jets in service, given they already claim to use ka, ku band LPI frequencies on their newer military satellites

 

[snakeeyes07]

By now china should have ku band communication node for stealth jets in service, given they already claim to use ka, ku band LPI frequencies on their newer military satellites

Then question is will they share it with PAF for J35? US is not sharing MADL and it is export restricted for everyone.

 

[randombully]

Then question is will they share it with PAF for J35? US is not sharing MADL and it is export restricted for everyone.

Don't think so.
Will risk electronic signature exposure of that frequency.

Or maybe it can, and limit it's use case for only during war, if it can somehow get that guarantee from Pakistan, though burgerland would love to get their hands on that.

Ultimately IMO, they won't, even the j35 version they will export will be quite degraded.

 

[sunnyv]

Question is how are Japanese and Australian forces managing every thing. Its not a joke to maintain a very sophisticated Stealthy platform, with Peak performance of Stealthy coatings, degradation of RAM skin, evolving everyday into a fully integrated networked platform with regular updates. What SATCOM modifications were done by Japanese. What have they done in C2 centre to keep up to the advancement that keeps coming with their platforms everyday wrt to Mission planning and tactics.

PAF will not be able to do it in 15 years even if it survives disintegration, so this J35 is more or less for Jahil Awam as a lolipop. For a well integrated, multilayered Airdefence system with a fully functional BMD system like India - only weak spot is something like Op Spiderweb run by internal front. This 5th Generation warfare tactics is gonna be a hollow bubble just like HQ9 and will be a tight slap if they try some funny adventure. B

If someone has a article by the Jap/Aus air-veterans of respective forces in English. Do share it
Regards

 

[FalconSlayers]

IAF to get Rs 10,000 crore indigenous I-STAR spy planes to help in precision strikes against enemy ground targets

This should be a much bigger priority along with AEW&CS and EW aicrafts than F-35/Su-57 importkhori

View: https://x.com/EconomicTimes/status/1931731750801064379
Read more At:

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/iaf-to-get-rs-10000-crore-indigenous-i-star-spy-planes-to-help-in-precision-strikes-against-enemy-ground-targets20250608201017/

 

[redpanda]

IAF to get Rs 10,000 crore indigenous I-STAR spy planes to help in precision strikes against enemy ground targets

This should be a much bigger priority along with AEW&CS and EW aicrafts than F-35/Su-57 importkhori

View: https://x.com/EconomicTimes/status/1931731750801064379
Read more At:

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/iaf-to-get-rs-10000-crore-indigenous-i-star-spy-planes-to-help-in-precision-strikes-against-enemy-ground-targets20250608201017/

How many of these IAF wants to operate?