Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

How IAF, Army are moving towards jointness with integration of air defence systems

Army’s Akashteer air defence system has been integrated with Integrated Air Command & Control System (IACCS) for one site, it is learnt. For other sites, integration is in progress.

theprint.in

some excerpts
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During the press conference Monday, Gen Dwivedi also said the Army is looking at procuring VSHORAD (Very Short Range Air Defence System) in the immediate time frame. He added that the Army is working in conjunction with the IAF and that the Advanced Air Defense (AAD) as a whole must be seen as an integrated system.

Gen Dwivedi also said that moving forward, the forces will have to operate air defences together. The Army should control it at the tactical level and the IAF at the operational/strategic level, he said. “As far as radars are concerned, these will be placed jointly by the two and the information will be jointly shared.”

Common systems the Army and IAF operate currently are Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) and the Akash air defence system. The IAF also operates the S-400 which is a long-range missile system. MRSAM has a range of 70 km and Akash of 25 km. The systems include acquisition and tracking radars—Akash is equipped with the Rohini radar, while MRSAM uses the Multi-Functional Search and Target Acquisition Radar (MFSTAR).

Under the integrated air defence umbrella, missiles as well as radars will be integrated.

On why the need for jointness in air defence was felt, sources in the Indian Air Force told ThePrint that jointness of the armed forces was “essential at strategic, operational and tactical level”. They added that it ensured “optimal and finest” utilisation of available air defence resources. The two services, said sources, are currently working on upgrades and establishment of networks for data sharing. With an eye on jointness, armed forces would also get all future air defence inventories interoperable as it supports enhanced interoperability by enabling networking and joint planning—a prerequisite for theatrisation.

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[concard]

If 6th generation fighter aircraft is only all about few advances in Jet Engine technology and not having Tail fins, then I would rather stick to 5th generation aircrafts. There is a clear demarcation between 5th generation aircrafts and all the generations which came before it. Right from RCS to performance to all the sensor fusion technology which goes into a 5th generation aircraft. But I don't see anything which blows my mind about 6th generation aircraft.

It's pretty much like 5G and 6G. What does 6G offer? More data speeds. Maybe I will be proven wrong, I don't know. But for now it's better to stick to building a 5th generation aircraft and run it cost effectively which is something even US has not figured out. The number of kids who really spammed every damn forum and media about Chinese flying 6th generation had me nauseated. Most of these fools don't read too much between the lines. It look 20 years for F-22 to mature. And it is only recently they went in for a upgrade.

https://www.rtx.com/news/2024/12/05/f-22-modernization

USAF Awards RTX F-22 Sensor Upgrade Contract Possibly Worth More Than $1 Billion - Avionics International

While the U.S. Air Force’s manned Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter has an uncertain future, the service is moving forward with upgrading sensors on the Lockheed Martin F-22. On […]

www.aviationtoday.com

Mind you this F-22 shit is so expensive to run and maintain they had to stop the production at 180 aircrafts. They are encountering the same problem with F-35. The cost of flying F-35 per hour can bankrupt most air force budgets. There is a reason why USAF is now inducting more F-15EX. Stealth aircrafts are good for SEAD missions in early part of the war and also in gaining air superiority. The question still remains how many sorties they can run before going to the hangar.

 

[Asmodeus]

Bro I finally cracked it.. IAF coming out with all this targeted defaming of HAL and Chini fearmongering because mk2 will take off this year. after that No sane Govt will give nod to MRFA unless they want to loose next election. Hahah!! I think Govt controlled media playing 4D chess by not giving too much attention to rukus coming out of planned chaos.

Yeah, I don't believe IAF is doing all this for good for all and finding genuine solution..


I have listened to multiple retd IAF officials and came to the conclusion that they are not honest about Tejas situation. Every single one of them blaming HAl and Govt but not accepting anything on their part. SO yes its all just for show

 

[shade2]

Bro I finally cracked it.. IAF coming out with all this targeted defaming of HAL and Chini fearmongering because mk2 will take off this year. after that No sane Govt will give nod to MRFA unless they want to loose next election. Hahah!! I think Govt controlled media playing 4D chess by not giving too much attention to rukus coming out of planned chaos


I have listened to multiple retd IAF officials and came to the conclusion that they are not honest about Tejas situation. Every single one of them blaming HAl and Govt but not accepting anything on their part. SO yes its all just for show

Waise bhi the Govt didn't want it, they don't have that kind of money to burn.

Max the IAF would get is 36 more Rafales or maybe 72, that is the tax to be paid to the French if we want Safran's collaboration on the IMRH engine and Kaveri, the pumpjet technology used on their Suffren-class for our nuclear submarines and don't know if anything else is there we can score from them.

MRFA type contract is also a waste because in exchange for spending huge sums in "ToT" all we would get is screwdriver-giri license production and the line will die once all aircraft are delivered.

 

[average indian]

On one side we Are struggling with induction issues on the other side of the planet

Man Owns The World’s Most Advanced Private Air Force After Buying 46 F/A-18 Hornets​

This Man Owns The World’s Most Advanced Private Air Force After Buying 46 F/A-18 Hornets

A conversation with the owner of Air USA about probably the most incredible private aircraft purchase of all time and the future of his adversary business.

getpocket.com

 

[Azaad]

36 nos Rafales are a given . It should've been ordered long ago. Beyond that we'd have to rely on the IAF's judgement who think the Rafales are the only plane out there in our reach which can go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

Now we can sit & debate this till kingdom come but in the final analysis they're the experts & we've got to trust their judgement. Besides there's no other FA in our inventory which can go up against this combo.

The MKI in its present form is a bomb truck but it'd shine like a Christmas tree on the AESA radars . Unfortunately the Super Sukhoi upgrades will take their own sweet time to be realised in good numbers.

LCA Mk-1a is short legged , good enough for CAP . Ditto for Mirage 2000. Both of them have their utility as ambush FAs in the valleys of the huge mountains straddling the LAC . Hence they make good secondary FAs. The MiG-29s are the jokers in the pack .

But we need something to break open the barn door so to speak i.e for SEAD / DEAD missions in Tibet & Xinjiang thru the dense IADS network , ISR , Cyber Space , Refuellers , Satellite network , etc capabilities of the PLAAF & that'd be the Rafale + MKI combo.

Unfortunately once again we don't have the numbers. Given the fact that the PLAAF will field close to 1000 J-20s likely more & an equal number of J-16s by 2030 , even if they deploy a third in the WTC & surrounding theatres our goose is cooked.

Please note that all these arguments being circulated of the limitations of taking off from Tibet with a limited payload etc doesn't hold when you've a whole army of Refuellers who'd be flying over mid Tibet refuelling FAs to & from missions across the LAC.

That's what the PLAAF is practising intensely including taking off from Yunnan over Myanmar & BD to target our rear in the NE & Eastern sectors & from Yunnan over Myanmar & possibly Thailand to target the A & N islands & possibly our eastern coast.

Had there been no immediate threat from the Chinese , we could have gone for 36 nos Rafales & closed the chapter. The rest could be made up by the mid 2030s with the Mk-2 & the AMCA Mk-1 in addition to the 220 odd Mk-1a's .

That's not the case today & unfortunately there's no guarantee even if we sign the agreement for the remainder of the 36 nos Rafales of which in itself there's no guarantee we'd do it ASAP , we'd get the full complement before 2030 .

We lost crucial years between 2020-2022 which it turns out was due to a dispute over the mode of procurement , with the MoD / GoI insisting on piece meal acquisitions & ex ACM Chaudhari insisting on the tender & here we are.

 

[Asmodeus]

Audit Reveals Indian Air Force’s Procurement Strategy Favors Specific Vendors – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

So kickbacks has become a norm and they consider it as a right. Such a shame

 

[Ayan Barat]

Audit Reveals Indian Air Force’s Procurement Strategy Favors Specific Vendors – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

So kickbacks has become a norm and they consider it as a right. Such a shame

I was so happy to see CAG in the first line of this article as I thought they might have started republishing it. CAG reports on defence used to be a goldmine of information related to institutional incompetencies and malpractices . Which is incidentally the reason they stopped publishing it from 2020 I guess.

But then after few more lines realised it's a six years old news when CAG report was last published.

Attack helicopter: CAG finds flaws in acquisition of Apache, Chinook helicopters

Before signing the contract, Boeing convinced the Defence Ministry that transfer of technology and maintenance in India would not be cost effective in view of the small quantity of helicopters.

m.economictimes.com

Man! These Indian defence reporter are such a disgrace.

 

[Azaad]

Audit Reveals Indian Air Force’s Procurement Strategy Favors Specific Vendors – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

So kickbacks has become a norm and they consider it as a right. Such a shame

Don't read too much into it. Those Apaches & Chinooks were procured to implement the Cold Start Doctrine. They were the only hptrs which fulfilled the need.

No LCH available then & then again it's not a substitute for the Apaches and no other hptr has the lifting capacities of the Chinook.

Both babooos & dhotis were in the loop. Moreover it was a G2G contract. No scope for any hanky panky.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

If 6th generation fighter aircraft is only all about few advances in Jet Engine technology and not having Tail fins, then I would rather stick to 5th generation aircrafts. There is a clear demarcation between 5th generation aircrafts and all the generations which came before it. Right from RCS to performance to all the sensor fusion technology which goes into a 5th generation aircraft. But I don't see anything which blows my mind about 6th generation aircraft.

It's pretty much like 5G and 6G. What does 6G offer? More data speeds. Maybe I will be proven wrong, I don't know. But for now it's better to stick to building a 5th generation aircraft and run it cost effectively which is something even US has not figured out. The number of kids who really spammed every damn forum and media about Chinese flying 6th generation had me nauseated. Most of these fools don't read too much between the lines. It look 20 years for F-22 to mature. And it is only recently they went in for a upgrade.

https://www.rtx.com/news/2024/12/05/f-22-modernization

USAF Awards RTX F-22 Sensor Upgrade Contract Possibly Worth More Than $1 Billion - Avionics International

While the U.S. Air Force’s manned Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter has an uncertain future, the service is moving forward with upgrading sensors on the Lockheed Martin F-22. On […]

www.aviationtoday.com

Mind you this F-22 shit is so expensive to run and maintain they had to stop the production at 180 aircrafts. They are encountering the same problem with F-35. The cost of flying F-35 per hour can bankrupt most air force budgets. There is a reason why USAF is now inducting more F-15EX. Stealth aircrafts are good for SEAD missions in early part of the war and also in gaining air superiority. The question still remains how many sorties they can run before going to the hangar.

A gen leap is said to occur when basically a new airframe is needed. MLU doesn't help much overall, or is very costly, or the older gen can simply not fulfil the primary characteristics of latest technology.


The newer gen jet would be expected to defeat older gen jets most ofthe times, if not everytime.
So for 5gen jets it would be
F-22/35 Vs F-15/16/18
Su-57 Vs Su-35, MiG-29/35
J-20/35 Vs J-10/11/15/16

& for 6gen jets it would be
NGAD, F/A-XX Vs F-22/35
FCAS Vs Rafale F5/6
GCAP Vs EF-2000 Tranche 5/6
J-36/50 Vs J-20/35

So in present 5gen jets the things which cannot be done are
- reduce geometric aspect of stealth.
- replace their skin with new meta-materials which could be very costly.
- increase internal weapons, fuel. CFT & stealth pod would increase RCS & drag.
- increase supercruise & max speed significantly which would require bigger engine.
- implement DEW w/o increasing RCS.

Coming to cost, a capitalist, profit oriented, free market economy will always face problems compared to communist & socialist mixed economies, at least in theory.

 

[Asmodeus]

I was so happy to see CAG in the first line of this article as I thought they might have started republishing it.

sorry to diappoint. I also thought this was recent reorder of Chinooks when they literally multiplied the price by 2x in 6 years.

 

[concard]

36 nos Rafales are a given . It should've been ordered long ago. Beyond that we'd have to rely on the IAF's judgement who think the Rafales are the only plane out there in our reach which can go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

Now we can sit & debate this till kingdom come but in the final analysis they're the experts & we've got to trust their judgement. Besides there's no other FA in our inventory which can go up against this combo.

The MKI in its present form is a bomb truck but it'd shine like a Christmas tree on the AESA radars . Unfortunately the Super Sukhoi upgrades will take their own sweet time to be realised in good numbers.

LCA Mk-1a is short legged , good enough for CAP . Ditto for Mirage 2000. Both of them have their utility as ambush FAs in the valleys of the huge mountains straddling the LAC . Hence they make good secondary FAs. The MiG-29s are the jokers in the pack .

But we need something to break open the barn door so to speak i.e for SEAD / DEAD missions in Tibet & Xinjiang thru the dense IADS network , ISR , Cyber Space , Refuellers , Satellite network , etc capabilities of the PLAAF & that'd be the Rafale + MKI combo.

Unfortunately once again we don't have the numbers. Given the fact that the PLAAF will field close to 1000 J-20s likely more & an equal number of J-16s by 2030 , even if they deploy a third in the WTC & surrounding theatres our goose is cooked.

Please note that all these arguments being circulated of the limitations of taking off from Tibet with a limited payload etc doesn't hold when you've a whole army of Refuellers who'd be flying over mid Tibet refuelling FAs to & from missions across the LAC.

That's what the PLAAF is practising intensely including taking off from Yunnan over Myanmar & BD to target our rear in the NE & Eastern sectors & from Yunnan over Myanmar & possibly Thailand to target the A & N islands & possibly our eastern coast.

Had there been no immediate threat from the Chinese , we could have gone for 36 nos Rafales & closed the chapter. The rest could be made up by the mid 2030s with the Mk-2 & the AMCA Mk-1 in addition to the 220 odd Mk-1a's .

That's not the case today & unfortunately there's no guarantee even if we sign the agreement for the remainder of the 36 nos Rafales of which in itself there's no guarantee we'd do it ASAP , we'd get the full complement before 2030 .

We lost crucial years between 2020-2022 which it turns out was due to a dispute over the mode of procurement , with the MoD / GoI insisting on piece meal acquisitions & ex ACM Chaudhari insisting on the tender & here we are.

I would dispute few of the points you have made.

--> "Given the fact that the PLAAF will field close to 1000 J-20s likely more & an equal number of J-16s by 2030."

This is impractical. USAF stopped production of F-22 at 180 and have never restarted production again. When they started F-35 they knew the costs would go through the roof. That is why they got other countries to partner in return for F-35 aircrafts. As I have mentioned before operating these stealth aircrafts are expensive. If you say money is not a big deal then I have other news for you. These aircrafts also need very intensive maintenance operations. For example, F-35 pilots are asked not to go supersonic because it erodes the Radar coating of the aircraft.

The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights

The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.

www.defensenews.com

The same problems exist for F-22 albeit there is no restriction on going supersonic. But all stealth aircrafts face the same problem. You wanna go supersonic? Then get ready for RAM coating damage which increases the heat signature of aircraft.

J-20 is not a fully stealth aircraft like F-22. But I get the reason behind why they have designed it that way. Basically they wanted an aircraft which could cover entire Chinese mainland. So they designed a huge fighter aircraft even adding canards at the front to give it additional lift during take off at the cost of it's stealth signature. You bet maintaining J-20 would be even bigger nightmare than F-22 since it has more control surfaces.

-->Please note that all these arguments being circulated of the limitations of taking off from Tibet with a limited payload etc doesn't hold when you've a whole army of Refuellers who'd be flying over mid Tibet refuelling FAs to & from missions across the LAC.

Even with refueling aircraft they have to take off far away from high altitude regions and then fly close to nearby air bases to refuel the fighter aircrafts. This presents a logistical problem as fighters cannot engage in the battle until they are refueled. If you looked at locations of their airbases this is easier said than done. Their logistics of transporting food and fuel would be a nightmare in the high altitude regions. Bomb their railway tracks you are looking at their army and air force being cut off.

That being said I am attaching the links of few videos with wonderful analysis of this topic.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0wCt3cyQc&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ2fx4eicTk&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkA2rsEXLNI&ab_channel=Cybersurg

 

[ArjunMK1A]

I would dispute few of the points you have made.

--> "Given the fact that the PLAAF will field close to 1000 J-20s likely more & an equal number of J-16s by 2030."

This is impractical. USAF stopped production of F-22 at 180 and have never restarted production again. When they started F-35 they knew the costs would go through the roof. That is why they got other countries to partner in return for F-35 aircrafts. As I have mentioned before operating these stealth aircrafts are expensive. If you say money is not a big deal then I have other news for you. These aircrafts also need very intensive maintenance operations. For example, F-35 pilots are asked not to go supersonic because it erodes the Radar coating of the aircraft.

The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights

The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.

www.defensenews.com

The same problems exist for F-22 albeit there is no restriction on going supersonic. But all stealth aircrafts face the same problem. You wanna go supersonic? Then get ready for RAM coating damage which increases the heat signature of aircraft.

J-20 is not a fully stealth aircraft like F-22. But I get the reason behind why they have designed it that way. Basically they wanted an aircraft which could cover entire Chinese mainland. So they designed a huge fighter aircraft even adding canards at the front to give it additional lift during take off at the cost of it's stealth signature. You bet maintaining J-20 would be even bigger nightmare than F-22 since it has more control surfaces.

-->Please note that all these arguments being circulated of the limitations of taking off from Tibet with a limited payload etc doesn't hold when you've a whole army of Refuellers who'd be flying over mid Tibet refuelling FAs to & from missions across the LAC.

Even with refueling aircraft they have to take off far away from high altitude regions and then fly close to nearby air bases to refuel the fighter aircrafts. This presents a logistical problem as fighters cannot engage in the battle until they are refueled. If you looked at locations of their airbases this is easier said than done. Their logistics of transporting food and fuel would be a nightmare in the high altitude regions. Bomb their railway tracks you are looking at their army and air force being cut off.

That being said I am attaching the links of few videos with wonderful analysis of this topic.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0wCt3cyQc&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ2fx4eicTk&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkA2rsEXLNI&ab_channel=Cybersurg

Tibet theatre is always an nightmare for PLA. They have limited access to the plateau with no settlement large enough to sustain them there.

But the problem we are having is lack of equipment's to get control on their vital supply chains. We are lacking fighters to support air dominance so our Troops can sit on lot of strategic areas. Without fighters PLAAF can sustain the operation from their Mainland with refuelling since they have numbers to do this. Unfortunately we started to loose fighters then we are screwed up.

Also another problem is their Rocket artillery which give good advantage to them. We have Pinaka which can cover upto 120km. Pralay to take care up to 500Km. We need huge numbers to take their bases out in Tibet.

I believe if we consistently screw their supply regions over a long period of time then we can win. But to sustain we need equipments to arrive like Ladli behna yojana where everyone get 2000 rupees anytime.

 

[concard]

Without fighters PLAAF can sustain the operation from their Mainland with refuelling since they have numbers to do this.

Didn't understand this point? What do you mean? Without fighter aircrafts they can't sustain their operation from mainland?

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Didn't understand this point? What do you mean? Without fighter aircrafts they can't sustain their operation from mainland?

Nope. What I am implying here is.

Lets say we destroy their Runways near Indian borders. In the process we took down their fighters in aerial as well as on ground.

Now China needs to force their Airforce to operate from Mainland region like chengdu etc. Now the distance is longer, but since PLAAF have huge numbers in terms of Tanker fleet, fighters they can flew from there and engage us again. On the other hand once we loose numbers on our Fighters we may need to rethink our strategy since we don't have very few key critical components like Engine to sustain production. We need to think about foreign help. Eventhough we may have less distance in terms of logistics.

We need large numbers in equipment to sustain the war against China.

When it comes to their lapdog they are geographically screwed so we will always wipe them out.

 

[RocketMan]

I the shade, hereby attest that I have only roasted the Genrol & Marshol, not the two guys you have tagged above.

Genrol & Marshol deserve all the roasting they can get.

Look at based Admirals, they build their own ships, collaborate with DPSUs for anything else they may need, all G&M do is stone-wall and force multiple revisions, then complain about delay and "increased weight", only to make their situation so bad viz enemies so that they can force GoI into ((( emergency procoorments )))

Genrol & Marshol behave like "customer", Admiral behaves like client of shipyard and collaborator for DPSU/DRDO.

That is the difference, this is a financially-challenged country, G&M should make the best of what they are allocated from both DPSU and Private Sector instead of optimising for what foreign imported toy gives the maximum favors and kickbacks

But then, how can "muh emergency imports" be done by our esteemed gernails n marshols ? I suggest we seriously think about importing proven gernails as well.

 

[RocketMan]

Waise bhi the Govt didn't want it, they don't have that kind of money to burn.

Max the IAF would get is 36 more Rafales or maybe 72, that is the tax to be paid to the French if we want Safran's collaboration on the IMRH engine and Kaveri, the pumpjet technology used on their Suffren-class for our nuclear submarines and don't know if anything else is there we can score from them.

MRFA type contract is also a waste because in exchange for spending huge sums in "ToT" all we would get is screwdriver-giri license production and the line will die once all aircraft are delivered.

While we keep losing squadron strength every year & have piecemeal acquisition of jets, 3000 black jets of Xi Jinping will be descending upon us after anchluss of Taiwan by 2049.

 

[shade2]

36 nos Rafales are a given . It should've been ordered long ago. Beyond that we'd have to rely on the IAF's judgement who think the Rafales are the only plane out there in our reach which can go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

Now we can sit & debate this till kingdom come but in the final analysis they're the experts & we've got to trust their judgement. Besides there's no other FA in our inventory which can go up against this combo.

That's not the case today & unfortunately there's no guarantee even if we sign the agreement for the remainder of the 36 nos Rafales of which in itself there's no guarantee we'd do it ASAP , we'd get the full complement before 2030 .

We lost crucial years between 2020-2022 which it turns out was due to a dispute over the mode of procurement , with the MoD / GoI insisting on piece meal acquisitions & ex ACM Chaudhari insisting on the tender & here we are.

According to you which jet can do equal-equal with Rafale's capability to go against J-20?
Since we can't get them quickly, however there are other merchants who can help in the "we gotta pump up the numbers" division like

>Gripen
>Eurofighter Typhoon
>F-16 ( )

Not mentioning F-15 since we already have that class of fighter, and any Roosi jet will be so delayed it's better waiting for Tejas mk2 instead.

If it's Rafale only then to get them swiftly and quickly we have to buy existing jets from French air force, and buy their share of in-production Rafales at Dassault, the French govt ofc will milk us well for this, and def without any large order

 

[Azaad]

I would dispute few of the points you have made.

--> "Given the fact that the PLAAF will field close to 1000 J-20s likely more & an equal number of J-16s by 2030."

This is impractical. USAF stopped production of F-22 at 180 and have never restarted production again. When they started F-35 they knew the costs would go through the roof. That is why they got other countries to partner in return for F-35 aircrafts. As I have mentioned before operating these stealth aircrafts are expensive. If you say money is not a big deal then I have other news for you. These aircrafts also need very intensive maintenance operations. For example, F-35 pilots are asked not to go supersonic because it erodes the Radar coating of the aircraft.

The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights

The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.

www.defensenews.com

The same problems exist for F-22 albeit there is no restriction on going supersonic. But all stealth aircrafts face the same problem. You wanna go supersonic? Then get ready for RAM coating damage which increases the heat signature of aircraft.

J-20 is not a fully stealth aircraft like F-22. But I get the reason behind why they have designed it that way. Basically they wanted an aircraft which could cover entire Chinese mainland. So they designed a huge fighter aircraft even adding canards at the front to give it additional lift during take off at the cost of it's stealth signature. You bet maintaining J-20 would be even bigger nightmare than F-22 since it has more control surfaces.

Maintaining a 5th Gen FA with stealth characteristics isn't easy. Absolutely true. That's one of the reasons you build them up in numbers to cater to redundancy.

Moreover the primary aim of PLAAF is still to outdo the USAF not the IAF, however in so doing they automatically achieve dominance over IAF in terms of numbers, platform superiority, etc.

Here are a few publications on Chinese production plans of its various FAs.

https://www.janes.com/osint-insight...hina-inducts-additional-j-20-stealth-fighters

China’s J-16 Fleet Surpasses 350 Fighters as Thirteenth Batch Begins Deliveries: Numbers Outstrip All Contemporary Rivals

New images have confirmed expanded deployments of J-16 fighters under the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force 125th Air Brigade, which in early 2024 began

militarywatchmagazine.com

Do note China already possesses between 200-300 nos J-20 & ~ 350 nos J-16.

-->Please note that all these arguments being circulated of the limitations of taking off from Tibet with a limited payload etc doesn't hold when you've a whole army of Refuellers who'd be flying over mid Tibet refuelling FAs to & from missions across the LAC.

Even with refueling aircraft they have to take off far away from high altitude regions and then fly close to nearby air bases to refuel the fighter aircrafts. This presents a logistical problem as fighters cannot engage in the battle until they are refueled. If you looked at locations of their airbases this is easier said than done. Their logistics of transporting food and fuel would be a nightmare in the high altitude regions. Bomb their railway tracks you are looking at their army and air force being cut off.

That being said I am attaching the links of few videos with wonderful analysis of this topic.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0wCt3cyQc&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ2fx4eicTk&t=1s&ab_channel=Cybersurg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkA2rsEXLNI&ab_channel=Cybersurg

Yes but where are the numbers of OUR FAs with the endurance & stealth necessary to interdict Chinese logistics ?

Look at the bases in regions bordering Tibet to get an idea of how PLAAF will likely conduct its air campaign & then factor in refuellers operating deep within Tibet closer to the middle as I put it towards the periphery of Tibet inside China to see how they'd deploy these FAs in a war against India.

Needless to say this would be in addition to the air bases inside Tibet featuring such FAs. These are just part of their overall war machinery which also includes a highly networked IADS , PLARF , Cyberspace capabilities & ISR including space based assets

No Place to Hide: A Look into China’s Geosynchronous Surveillance Capabilities

In December 2023, China launched a new optical surveillance satellite, called Yaogan-41, that may allow it to keep watch around the clock on the entire Indo-Pacific region from geostationary orbit.

www.csis.org

Spy Satellite Race: China Leads ‘Global Espionage’ With Yaogan Series Of Satellites; India A ‘Decade’ Behind

The strategic value of space assets is surging, with Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (IRS) satellites becoming increasingly vital in influencing ground-based military developments. These satellites orbit at altitudes of approximately 500 kilometers, offering crucial insights into...

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Azaad]

According to you which jet can do equal-equal with Rafale's capability to go against J-20?
Since we can't get them quickly, however there are other merchants who can help in the "we gotta pump up the numbers" division like

>Gripen
>Eurofighter Typhoon
>F-16 ( )

Not mentioning F-15 since we already have that class of fighter, and any Roosi jet will be so delayed it's better waiting for Tejas mk2 instead.

If it's Rafale only then to get them swiftly and quickly we have to buy existing jets from French air force, and buy their share of in-production Rafales at Dassault, the French govt ofc will milk us well for this, and def without any large order

As of now only the F-22 & the F-35. Eurofighter Typhoon is a good FA but lacks the avionics the French have deployed aboard the Rafales notably SPECTRA.

Then there's the Su-57 which on the face of it looks like a good prospect but my gut feeling is it'd take another 4-5 years for it to hammer out the kinks & mature as a good platform.

As you see in all the above cases the alternatives won't materialise for 1 reason or another.

Last ditch attempt could be to lean on France to expedite mfg our FA which we can do with the Rafale M but in case of the IAF, where's the order? Problem is the MoD & IAF probably think of Dassault as HAL which'd begin the process of mfg without a firm order in hand.