Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

Chings ones is true stealth with canards?

I mean it has the shape and all.
Baaki idk, others are more knowledgable in this area

 

[Spitfire IX]

With AMCA prospectively not reaching FOC until some time in the 2040's, India is contemplating buying Su-57. This article suggests that Su-57 has a long way to go before it, too, will be fully developed. In view of what it says, should India be thinking of buying the Su-57?

From rubles to rubble: The true cost of fielding Su-57 Felon

The initial cost estimates for the Su-57 have been a matter of much speculation and debate. Early figures suggested a unit cost hovering around $35-$50 million.

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Spitfire IX]

I see an opportunity here for India to get a bargain. However, opportunities for getting a bargain need to be taken when they are there. Sadly, not something India is set up to do.

Breaking - Spain and France slash A400M orders, Airbus in trouble

Airbus faces significant challenges as reports suggest Spain and France are considering reductions in their initial orders for the A400M military aircraft.

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Ultraman]

people seem to be taking this as a sign IAF is leaning towards su-57

interesting times ahead .


View: https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1884633092117152160

 

[Ultraman]

maybe already posted . source for that twitter post by wlvn

translation

"French pilots [on Rafale] regularly facing fifth-generation fighters [like the American F35] in inter-allied exercises note that the combat mission against stealth fighters is impossible to win with the current state of the sensors." Result: "In the event of engagement alongside its Western allies in a high-intensity conflict, the French fighter could be confined to the role of supporting fifth-generation fighters."


View: https://x.com/jdomerchet/status/1884231471407198384

article is behind paywall , but found another article

Une étude met en garde contre le possible "déclassement" de l'aviation de combat française - Zone Militaire

Lors d'une audition parlementaire, en juillet 2017, alors chef d'état-major de l'armée de l'Air et de l'Espace , le général André Lanata s'était inquiété

www.opex360.com

And to clarify: "French pilots regularly facing 5th generation fighters in inter-allied exercises note that 'the combat mission against stealth fighters on Rafale is impossible to win with the current state of the sensors."

While "radar stealth is certainly not enough to achieve air superiority," it is nevertheless an "undeniable asset, particularly in the toughest scenarios, unless low-altitude penetration missions are accepted, with a high level of risk," the authors of this study emphasize. In addition, they continue, "it could also become an entry ticket for front-line missions, and therefore a marker of influence for a coalition's strategic options."

Under these conditions, they warn, French fighter aircraft "could be confined to the role of 'supplementary'" in a "two-speed air coalition, in which 4th generation fighters will have their place." General Lanata had said nothing else almost eight years ago.

That being said, this "sensors" business is intriguing. If an aircraft like the F-35 can be "invisible" to certain means of detection [this is a priori not the case for passive radars and it depends on the frequency bands used], its infrared signature - with its F-135 engine - can betray it. The IR channel of the Optronic Front Sector [OSF] of the Rafale would be able to detect it face to face, subject, however, to weather conditions.

Incidentally, the Rafale will soon be equipped with an improved OSF, the General Directorate of Armaments having recently conducted tests on a new optic on the infrared channel of the OSF, this being supposed to improve the "image quality of the Night Identification function".

 

[Asmodeus]

I mean it has the shape and all.
Baaki idk, others are more knowledgable in this area

I have one argument to suggest.. J20 is highly manueverable like F-22 hence the canards right? J-20 flew somewhere around 2010. so Chini should be able to build stealth jet without canards based on J20 for added stealth if they want to. if you have F-22 class jet why would one go backwards to build twin engine F-35 with stolen tech?? unless J-20 isn't as stealthy, or Chong's stealth improvements don't match US. its same as after building AMCA we would do espionage to build F-35 again. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Neil (नील/Нил)]

Su 57 jets have shot down Ukrainian Su 27 & F16 from >150 kms away & without even triggering RWR/MAWS .

While I am a very big fan of the Russian Su-57, I am very much skeptical about this claim because its chances of being true are very low to simply outright impossible.

Let's dissect this claim & perform a simple analysis.
In terms of air-to-air missiles, the Su-57 can carry the R-77M, R-74M2, R-37.
According to your claim:
"Su 57 jets have shot down Ukrainian Su 27 & F-16 from >150 kms away....."
The R-74M2 is a short-range AAM with a range of 40 kilometres (25 mi) so it couldn't have been used in this hypothetical shootdown.
Next up we have the R-77M which is a modernized version of the original R-77 tailor made for the Su-57. The R-77M has a maximum range of 193km, so it could have been used by the Su-57 to shootdown jets like the Su-27 & F-16 being operated by the Ukrainian Airforce but this is also very unlikely because even though the R-77M has a range of 190+ kms, at distances like more than 150 kms the missile would have lost most of its speed, velocity, Kinetic energy (KE) etc and would have been too sluggish (in other words, not manoeuvrable enough) to hit a target such as an F-16 or Su-27, because both of these aircraft can pull off 9+ G maneuvers and at those ranges, an R-77M would have lost so much of its KE, that it would have been easily dodged/evaded. The R-37 with its impressive range of 150-400 kms is by far the most likely candidate.

"& without even triggering RWR/MAWS."
This is the hardest part for me to believe, afaik there is no such missile that is so stealth that it can completely evade triggering RWR or MAWS. What you are describing seems to be more reminiscent of something one would find in some game like Ace Combat.

Your claim would have been more believable if it was just:
"Su-57 jets have shot down Ukrainian Su 27 & F-16 from >150 kms away."

But you lost me when you brought up
"& without even triggering RWR/MAWS."
That said, if you can provide a source from where you got this claim from, it would be most appreciated or else at the moment it will be taken as unsubstantiated and made up stories. Peace out.

 

[Asmodeus]

If Rafale's aren't that great, I wonder why IAF wants this anyhow. beats me..



View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1884497901537394745

 

[shade2]

If Rafale's aren't that great, I wonder why IAF wants this anyhow. beats me..



View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1884497901537394745

>Can't get F-35
>Can order Su-57 but won't get it in time, or maybe at all

Aur kya bacha hai fir?

 

[Asmodeus]

>Can't get F-35
>Can order Su-57 but won't get it in time, or maybe at all

Aur kya bacha hai fir?

tejas mk2,ORCA,AMCA,RPSA,SWiFT any of these are as good if not better. I don't see IAF excited about any of those.. only Rafale. Why? specially when it won't even make any diff. its better to start 130KN engine project with that money instead, so that AMCA can be garenteed.
we have 8 GE414 now.. Rest we will get t0+3 years, t0-time of signing a deal. >2028
we will have 4 tejas mk2 prototype and 5 Amca prototype(x2) in coming 3-4 years = 14 engines?
Now tell me how that makes sense....

 

[shade2]

tejas mk2,ORCA,AMCA,RPSA,SWiFT any of these are as good if not better. I don't see IAF excited about any of those.. only Rafale. Why? specially when it won't even make any diff. its better to start 130KN engine project with that money instead, so that AMCA can be garenteed.
we have 8 GE414 now.. Rest we will get t0+3 years, t0-time of signing a deal. >2028
we will have 4 tejas mk2 prototype and 5 Amca prototype(x2) in coming 3-4 years = 14 engines?
Now tell me how that makes sense....

I was operating under the constraint of "Buying from 5 Places"

 

[shade2]

F-35 For India: Trump's Next Big Push? - Livefist

Is President Donald Trump about to make 'F-35 for India' his new flagship project in the India-U.S. defence trade space? The new American President's recent insistence on India significantly increasing its procurement of U.S. security equipment in his opening conversation with Indian Prime...

www.livefistdefence.com

Article describing patrakar's Haseen Sapna of Dolund offering us F-35

Then Dolund will snap his fingers, patrakar wakes up and sees on his phone
"BREAKING NEWS : TRUMP ASKS INDIAN GOVT TO BUY 114 F-16 OR FACE SANCTIONS"

 

[ArjunMK1A]

I have one argument to suggest.. J20 is highly manueverable like F-22 hence the canards right? J-20 flew somewhere around 2010. so Chini should be able to build stealth jet without canards based on J20 for added stealth if they want to. if you have F-22 class jet why would one go backwards to build twin engine F-35 with stolen tech?? unless J-20 isn't as stealthy, or Chong's stealth improvements don't match US. its same as after building AMCA we would do espionage to build F-35 again. Doesn't make sense to me.

Based on my Armchair brain. J-20 is the stepping stone for Chinaman to test 5th Gen technologies like IWB, Luneberg lens, Sensors etc. They may have some limitation at that time maybe hence few compromise like Canards.

Now you can see the J-35 which is more in-line with current 5th Gen or the undertesting J-36 which is even a new territory.

Unfortunately UNGENROLS were hard skulled and will ask for an Russian/American/French Unicorn.

 

[Nutcracker]

twin engine F-35 with stolen tech

It's literally a PLA Navy first program. J20 is not carrier capable, or can't be made into.

 

[randombully]

I have one argument to suggest.. J20 is highly manueverable like F-22 hence the canards right? J-20 flew somewhere around 2010. so Chini should be able to build stealth jet without canards based on J20 for added stealth if they want to. if you have F-22 class jet why would one go backwards to build twin engine F-35 with stolen tech?? unless J-20 isn't as stealthy, or Chong's stealth improvements don't match US. its same as after building AMCA we would do espionage to build F-35 again. Doesn't make sense to me.

J20 is not as stealthy as f22 just based on shape, but it still is stealthy enough to be called a "5th gen stealth fighter", there's a reason PLAAF plans 500+ of these big boys.

As for j35, it's mainly built for chinky navy, as j20 is not suitable, to make j20 suitable for naval operations it would have required complete design overhaul with folding wings but at the same time they had fc-31 prototype which was much more smaller and carrier friendly so if they have to redesign a fighter this one was better choice.
This was also a decision to help shenyang as they invested money in fc31 only to lost to j20 in airforce tender.
Now there is also a land based version of j35 called j35A/j31 so chink airforce could also buy it, but right now no confirmation or news of PLAAF showing interest, so most likely for export.

 

[Asmodeus]

J20 is not as stealthy as f22 just based on shape, but it still is stealthy enough to be called a "5th gen stealth fighter", there's a reason PLAAF plans 500+ of these big boys.

TBH I don't see any reason, Chongs do it because they can. it was the similar case with j10 as well. They have hundreds of them.
But you are missing the bigger point i made, J-20 is for shoot and scoot in air, it is not made for SEAD or deep penetration mission people claim to be. Their devlopement of pl17 and pl21 is a testament to that. ofc J35 is a naval variant and all. but J20 remains LO not VLO.

 

[randombully]

TBH I don't see any reason, Chongs do it because they can. it was the similar case with j10 as well. They have hundreds of them.
But you are missing the bigger point i made, J-20 is for shoot and scoot in air, it is not made for SEAD or deep penetration mission people claim to be. Their devlopement of pl17 and pl21 is a testament to that. ofc J35 is a naval variant and all. but J20 remains LO not VLO.

J20 is meant for shoot and scoot against US navy and airborne force multipliers which will be defended by F35's and Aegis along with 4th gen fighters.
You ain't gonna do SEAD against a navy.

Against land targets j20 will be more than capable of SEAD, especially against "our" land targets.

 

[Asmodeus]

J20 is meant for shoot and scoot against US navy and airborne force multipliers which will be defended by F35's and Aegis along with 4th gen fighters.
You ain't gonna do SEAD against a navy.

Against land targets j20 will be more than capable of SEAD, especially against "our" land targets.

There is absolutely no way j20 will be used against US navy, its a joke to even think with that humengous IR signature. It won't know from where it was downed by IR missile.
Against our 'Land' Targets it isn't stealthy enough to penetrate specially with that tiny fuel capacity and ineficient engines. Its more than enough when defending though against both. But I love how you are overestimating its capabilities.

 

[randombully]

There is absolutely no way j20 will be used against US navy, its a joke to even think with that humengous IR signature. It won't know from where it was downed by IR missile.
Against our 'Land' Targets it isn't stealthy enough to penetrate specially with that tiny fuel capacity and ineficient engines. Its more than enough when defending though against both. But I love how you are overestimating its capabilities.

@Ayan Barat bhai smajhao isko.

 

[Ayan Barat]

There is absolutely no way j20 will be used against US navy, its a joke to even think with that humengous IR signature. It won't know from where it was downed by IR missile.

"There is absolutely no way MiG-21 will be used against F-16, it's a joke to even think with this antique platform. It won't know from where it was downed by AMRAAM"
And yet we used MiGs against PAF F-16s.

So if war breaks out today then J-20 would be their primer fighter not because it can do this and that but because it's the best they've. And if indeed US Navy is concerned then it'll consist primarily of F/A-18E/F; not F-35s.

Against our 'Land' Targets it isn't stealthy enough to penetrate specially with that tiny fuel capacity and ineficient engines. Its more than enough when defending though against both.

It's a pure air-dominance fighter my Guy, just like F-22. These planes are made around 4-6x BVR-AAMs and 2x WVR-AAMs. The only scenario they might carry a bomb is if it's an emergency where there's no other platform available or maybe it's on a nuclear attack mission. So why would a plane that's supposed to carry only air to air missile even bother about land targets?

These planes are supposed to keep the sky clear so that the second wave of 4th gen fighters like J-16s can pummel the ground.

But I love how you are overestimating its capabilities.

• Underestimate your adversary, save money, war happens, cry that how stupid you were in your assessment
• Overestimate your adversary, waste money, war happens, laugh that how stupid you were in your assessment

So it's just a question of what kind of face you wanna make after a war; or
Baaki it's up to you