Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

My "Stupidity & over confidence" ? You were the one who negated the classified briefing GoI & it's various bodies were supposed to receive from DoD & LM offering to brief them instead.

What classified? I told you I can give you a briefing based on all the public available data and educated guess by people who work in this field.
Your the one stupid ass who put classified on it and now using to counter the truth about you lying.

 

[randombully]

So you mean you're the last word on stealth the various capabilities of the F-35 , J-20 , Su-57 etc . That if anyone has an alternative opinion he's either lying or he's ignorant.

No, but better than your words.
Don't know about others But you definitely are lying and ignorant both.

 

[randombully]

That's your opinion.

No.
It having RAM all round is not my opinion.
Its surfaces, wings, tails etc designed in a way to have no 90° angles and designed in a way to scatter radar waves away from the sender direction is not my opinion

 

[randombully]

How will they make it more stealthy shape wise since the TF & super cruise is addressed so too are the serrated edges in the engine bay . Besides even with these modifications the Su-57 qualifies as LO not VLO. The Rafales are LO. Plus they've SPECTRA which the French claim imparts it with near stealth characteristics due to ACT . Do you see it as stealth ?

How am I wrong ?

What is the definition of vlo and lo according to you?
At what rcs does vlo start according to you?
Not to mention su57 having iwb while rafale carrying external weapons.

But again based on what I know.
Frontal median spherical rcs in x band.
Rafale, SH blk3,tejas mk2= 0.1-0.2m2( clean without payload)
As said before I consider rcs of 0.5m2 and lower as LO.
And consider rcs of 0.05m2 and lower as vlo.
Su57= 0.01-0.03 m2
J20=0.003-0.006 m2
F35=0.0005-0.001 m2

 

[randombully]

LCA Mk-2 is supposed to BE the entire system of systems. Check out the HAL slide depicting CATS Warrior , Hunter , Alpha , Infinity & God knows what else. And last checked Mk-2 was still a 4.5 Gen ++ FA
View attachment 26866

Much better to just use "non stealth jet" here.
In future many more upgrades for tejas mk2 and other jets will come.
We can't just continue adding more ++.
Like 4.5+++++ etc jet
But again, as you said, it can integrate quite well with cca and coordinate as one system.
Though again, it's unclear what "complete" integration mean here.

 

[randombully]

Civilian radars have mapped all 3 when the J-20 barely made an international appearance ? There are speculations & then there are idle speculations. The former's permissible not the latter. In any case I don't indulge in them.

What international appearances?
It's made by using radar scattering on the 3 models of all these jets( they even modeled inside of ducts, like radar blockers inside su57, so very detailed models).
Then they applied ram with 90% radar absorption In simulation of all three and simulated L, S, X and VHF band.
They only simulated frontal rcs.
And these no. Came out for simpler understanding.

 

[randombully]

So , no stealth aka no LO or VLO ? Take a stand , don't keep shifting goal posts.

When did I say no stealth?
You asked why us is going for ngad if they can upgrade f35 to 6th gen.
I told the reason ngad be "larger" "more range" "more endurace"
" bigger iwb" " more power generation for avionics" "more power for future DEW"
All these that f35 doesn't have due to its size and will not have in future even it gets upgrades with 6th gen tech.
Also as mentioned before some did question whether f35 be "completely" brought yo 6th gen standard.

 

[Azaad]

6th gen is more about future emerging technologies than an fighter jet.
Like how you can put all existing 5th gen tech in 4th gen aircraft except stealth.
In 5th gen stealth is already there, now you can design your 6th gen jet to be somewhat more stealth optimised that 5th gen
But stealth is not a defining trait of 6th gen, heck it's not even main trait over 5th gen.

Defining traits that we right now know are.

Mumt( could be put in 4th and 5th gen too(same))
Optionally manned( same)
AI assist( same)
DEW( not confirmed, could be put in "larger" 5th gen and 4th gen with enough power).
Variable cycle engine( same)
Fly by light/optoc( extensive modification but doable, also f35 is already kind of fly by optic, no idea about j20 or su57 if they have fly by optics in lots of areas)
NG high capacity network( designed to process large of information extremely quickly, can be put on both 4th and 5th gen, but will require extensive modification),
Much higher and efficient cooling( hard to put in small to medium fighters like f35)
And we're biulding new airframe for 6th gen, newer and more advance composites can be developed and used.

another thing is 6th gen future aircrafts are all "larger" in size wether it be recently flown chinede j36 and j50( smaller than j36 but still su57 zise), us NGAD, UK tempest.
Though French one seems to be relatively medium size due to carrier compatibility.
Large size means, more range, endurance, more powerful avionics, much better cooling, bigger iwb.
But again f15 eagle compared to f16 also have higher range, higher endurance, more powerful radar and other avionics, much better avionics cooling, but both are considered same gen.

Regarding everything else you've put out as defining stealth characteristics , I'd add all aspect stealth to it & active stealth as well since RAM & RAS are about stealth shaping which is characterized as passive stealth.

As time goes by these definitions will change depending on which country we're talking about. Plus new tech being developed which isn't in the public domain will feature in either the initial models of those 6th Gen FAs or subsequent iterations.

And here's thread about j36 defining his 6th gen.
He basically said, all the things I mentioned alonh with a large size.

View: https://x.com/Hurin92/status/1874139288407072779

I'm least interested in what Wumaos say or how they qualify stealth.

 

[Azaad]

What classified? I told you I can give you a briefing based on all the public available data and educated guess by people who work in this field.
Your the one stupid ass who put classified on it and now using to counter the truth about you lying.

If you aren't aware there's such a thing as classified briefings offered by the OEM & DoD / Pentagon on the F-35 to prospective customers which if I'm not mistaken also needs Congressional approval. Plus there are levels to these classified briefings .

Why the hell would they brief me & why the hell would you offer to educate me on these systems ? In any case what makes you think I even see you as some sort of resident authority on these systems ?

Respect is earned not demanded or requested. It's commanded.

 

[Azaad]

No, but better than your words.
Don't know about others But you definitely are lying and ignorant both.

You calk me liar the next time without any evidence whatsoever & by God you'd get it . Don't try my patience & mistake my tolerance for weakness or patience for taciturnity.

 

[Azaad]

No.
It having RAM all round is not my opinion.
Its surfaces, wings, tails etc designed in a way to have no 90° angles and designed in a way to scatter radar waves away from the sender direction is not my opinion

My apologies . I mistook you saying that the Stealth features of the J-20 is of an order magnitude greater in all stealth fighters & not non stealth fighters as you put it .

 

[randombully]

I'd add all aspect stealth to it & active stealth

Do you mean plasma stealth when you said active stealth? EW as active stealth?
If it's plasma then it will actually degrade the stealth, plus ir signature will go so much up that ir sensors could track the jet from 100+km easily.

If its EW we already have that, though more advance EW equipment will come by than.

Expect these the only other kind of active stealth I think off are adaptive RAM materials/meta materials for aircraft skin, materials that can through electrical signal change properties to better deal with different freq.
It x band waves hit it adapts to better absorb x band.
If L band hits it, it does the same.
Though this tech is not even in its infancy.
And very low chances of it ever happening.

 

[randombully]

If you aren't aware there's such a thing as classified briefings offered by the OEM & DoD / Pentagon on the F-35 to prospective customers which if I'm not mistaken also needs Congressional approval. Plus there are levels to these classified briefings .

Why the hell would they brief me & why the hell would you offer to educate me on these systems ? In any case what makes you think I even see you as some sort of resident authority on these systems ?

Respect is earned not demanded or requested. It's commanded.

I know classified briefing exist.
What I said was again "publicly availabile data" briefing on its capabilities.

 

[randombully]

I'm least interested in what Wumaos say or how they qualify stealth.

It's still a paper by the designer of j36.
Any sane person would consider it worth giving a look if they are interested in knowing what future 6th gen offers.

 

[randombully]

You calk me liar the next time without any evidence whatsoever & by God you'd get it . Don't try my patience & mistake my tolerance for weakness or patience for taciturnity.

Bc, movie kye maar raha hai internet pe.

 

[Azaad]

What is the definition of vlo and lo according to you?

Anything measuring 0.001 onwards would be stealth as far as VLO goes .

At what rcs does vlo start according to you?

Not to mention su57 having iwb while rafale carrying external weapons.

AMCA Mk-1 will have IWB too. Yet it is powered by F-414 TFs. ADA claims it is stealth. It's another matter when our own indigenous 120 KN TFs arrive , they'd replace the F-414 TFs aboard the AMCA Mk-1 . Till then how would you see the Mk-1s ?
LO ? VLO ? VVLO ?

But again based on what I know.
Frontal median spherical rcs in x band.
Rafale, SH blk3,tejas mk2= 0.1-0.2m2( clean without payload)

As said before I consider rcs of 0.5m2 and lower as LO.

Then we differ on the definition of stealth as I've given you my parameters above whereas you're deliberately keeping your standards higher ( or lower depending on one's PoV) to accommodate the Su-57.

And consider rcs of 0.05m2 and lower as vlo.
Su57= 0.01-0.03 m2
J20=0.003-0.006 m2
F35=0.0005-0.001 m2

 

[randombully]

AMCA Mk-1 will have IWB too. Yet it is powered by F-414 TFs. ADA claims it is stealth. It's another matter when our own indigenous 120 KN TFs arrive , they'd replace the F-414 TFs aboard the AMCA Mk-1 . Till then how would you see the Mk-1s ?
LO ? VLO ? VVLO ?

As vlo.

 

[Azaad]

Much better to just use "non stealth jet" here.
In future many more upgrades for tejas mk2 and other jets will come.
We can't just continue adding more ++.
Like 4.5+++++ etc jet
But again, as you said, it can integrate quite well with cca and coordinate as one system.
Though again, it's unclear what "complete" integration mean here.

Anything below 5th Gen is non stealthy whereas there's no universal definition of Stealth . Let's leave it at that.

 

[Azaad]

What international appearances?
It's made by using radar scattering on the 3 models of all these jets( they even modeled inside of ducts, like radar blockers inside su57, so very detailed models).
Then they applied ram with 90% radar absorption In simulation of all three and simulated L, S, X and VHF band.
They only simulated frontal rcs.
And these no. Came out for simpler understanding.

J-20 has not moved outside the Chinese air space. The only military aircraft that have made contact with the J-20 would be the Taiwanese & the US FAs , possibly the Japanese too. I haven't seen them release any such readings .

So where are these numbers from ? From photographs on the net which then get uploaded to these S/w which measures RCS & generate figures which people like you duly lap up & post here .

 

[Azaad]

When did I say no stealth?
You asked why us is going for ngad if they can upgrade f35 to 6th gen.
I told the reason ngad be "larger" "more range" "more endurace"
" bigger iwb" " more power generation for avionics" "more power for future DEW"
All these that f35 doesn't have due to its size and will not have in future even it gets upgrades with 6th gen tech.
Also as mentioned before some did question whether f35 be "completely" brought yo 6th gen standard.

You never included stealth either in your wish list for what the NGAD & the F/A - XX FAs would be which nobody could've overlooked while drawing up a wish list for the aforementioned FAs. ? The error if it was so was so glaring that its absence had to ne questioned .

Hence I asked.