Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[NerVik]

BTW French products are all same, overpriced load of crap. You can never win anything with a French machine be it a war or a race. Dassault is citroen of fighter jets.

Tell that to the British and Argentinians. Remember the falkland war and exocet missile? brits nearly lost the war because of that missile.
Mirage 2k is also crap? Kargil war?

Just this bit tells me you aren't serious about defence related matters. You are not even a black piller, just coming across more and more as a brown coolie. Keep it up bud you will soon be in the esteemed company of Ashok Swain.

 

[NerVik]

Sorry Shaktimaan

Thanks, pretty neat to be called one of my childhood superheros.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Will any one face jail for corruption? Idts.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1865203533928370636?t=7-bRmy63ZAvKkay40dO96g&s=19

 

[OutForVendetta]

LOL, so basically we are not yet effd up, although in all probably we are going to and in near future. But its Alright. And although their single destroyer now has more firepower and better sensors and weapons than all our CBG combined. But Everything is ok just chill.
We can always say that “Agar F17NG hota to….”( Humari bund blasting na hui hoti)

BTW French products are all same, overpriced load of crap. You can never win anything with a French machine be it a war or a race. Dassault is citroen of fighter jets.

Ohh Rafale se yaad aaya, where is our Teja bhai ? Haven’t heard a whisper since almost a year. Such a stealth our Teju is having. HAL must be awarded with “Hila-le-Pakistan” for such a marvellous achievement.

Yep, it's confirmed now. the Rafale's are all crap. Worth nothing.

Why ? Because Mr @AbRaj said so.

 

[Nibbler]

Can't comment on others opinion but I've been pretty clear about mine



So

Look Buddy, I'm terminally retarded.
Not to mention my room temperature IQ.
So the thing is I really don't have the intellect to even think about all these US vassal/US doing 9-11/Left/Right/Amerishart/Soros/Supremacists/IAI Lora/Lehsun. Uparwaale ne paav bhar dimaag hi diya hai, I prefer to use it in technical stuff or to shitpost

So your biggest worry is China becoming US vassal and my biggest worry is this


Interesting observation, mine has been bit different.
> Feeling paraud Indian army, jung ke maindan me kadi na haarde...oh oh ho
> Galwan happens
> "Wo don't even have sufficient arctic clothing!?"
> Surprised Pikachu face

Ok if that’s the entirety of the point being made then it’s objectively true. China is ahead. And they like any other entity have the capacity to act irrationally.

 

[RocketMan]

Abe xhutiya stop your Rndi rona. It was that fishing boat which came towards the surfacing submarine. Low IQ fishermen like you saw periscope and sped up the boat towards sub and collided with it.

Truly an 82 IQ moment!

 

[Vinod Patter]

Tell that to the British and Argentinians. Remember the falkland war and exocet missile? brits nearly lost the war because of that missile.
Mirage 2k is also crap? Kargil war?

Just this bit tells me you aren't serious about defence related matters. You are not even a black piller, just coming across more and more as a brown coolie. Keep it up bud you will soon be in the esteemed company of Ashok Swain.

Yes and Israeli Air Force destroyed Arab Air Forces in matter of hours with French made Anti Runway Durendel Bombs and Mirage - 3 jets during 6 day War 1967. They copied Mirage - 5 and developed Nesher Jet and again slaughtered Arab Air Forces in 1973 Yomkipur War. Even during War of Attrition Mirage - 3 performed exceptionally well, even against Soviet piloted Mig - 21. French weapons are good

 

[Ayan Barat]

BTW French products are all same, overpriced load of crap. You can never win anything with a French machine be it a war or a race.

It's like saying iPhones are expensive...

Meteor is still the most potent air-to-air missile in widespread service and no matter which industry you go from automobile to nuclear, CATIA is still the only accepted CAD software for critical things.

If we leave aside all the little nuances like order size, economies of scale and negotiations then French systems provide comparable value for the price they charge.

 

[AbRaj]

It's like saying iPhones are expensive...

Precisely. When you have android phones from china performing equally good or better
in daily tasks and at fraction of the cost.

Meteor is still the most potent air-to-air missile in widespread service and no matter which industry you go from automobile to nuclear, CATIA is still the only accepted CAD software for critical things.

They may have the best specs in their respective categories, but what we need more is comparable product that is affordable and can be made and integrated locally with all our platforms. Meteor for us is like silver bullet which btw nice to have but can’t be used as your primary weapon in a war. We’ll go bankrupt before the conclusion of the war.

If we leave aside all the little nuances like order size, economies of scale and negotiations then French systems provide comparable value for the price they charge.

Problem is that our enemy is China, the factory of the world which is producing similar products at a fraction of the price and at a rate multiple times faster, thanks to full control over technology and supply chain.
French weapons/products, as I said earlier, may be Okeyish in their categories. but all of then are overpriced for what they offer and supply restricted .
Rafale against any purposely built FGFA is a tough sale, especially considering the asking price of French fourth gen jet is multiple times higher than fifth gen fighters
PS: Apple products are pricy but its an American company and has American values one of which is affordability, economy of scale and value proposition. F35 is IPhone of fighter jet world and not the Rafale, which can be compared to Lumia 920 of Microsoft

 

[Ayan Barat]

Meteor for us is like silver bullet which btw nice to have but can’t be used as your primary weapon in a war. We’ll go bankrupt before the conclusion of the war.

Let me make one thing absolutely clear to you before everything else; WE'RE IN NO WAY A POOR MILITARY
We can easily spare more than $0.65bn for a piecemeal order of just 6 AH-64s. We can buy the most obnoxiously expensive sniper rifle in the world. More than $1.5bn goes to pensions.
The financial decisions may look like those of a 23 yo South Delhi girl, but never poor.

Now let's talk about the said missile but with numbers
• In 2023 a joint order for AIM-120s was placed by Germany and Sweden; 1,219 missiles for $3.5bn.
Per unit cost comes to around $2.8mn
• In 2019 Brazil signed a deal with MBDA worth €200mn for 100 Meteors
Per unit cost comes to around $2.2mn

So I'm bit curious to know about how exactly you came up with this "silver bullet", can't be used as primary weapon theory.

Problem is that our enemy is China, the factory of the world which is producing similar products at a fraction of the price and at a rate multiple times faster, thanks to full control of supply chain.
French weapons/products, as I said earlier, may be Okeyish in their categories. but all of then are overpriced for what they offer and supply restricted .
Rafale against any purposely built FGFA is a tough sale, especially considering the asking price of French fourth gen jet is multiple times higher than fifth gen fighters

If we're going to discuss what we should have done or what China is or how we could have used our budget more judiciously then go through my previous posts. From forcing IAF - IN to order ORCA instead of this Mk-1A/Rafale/MRFA/Mk-2 circus to focusing on disruptive strategies I've covered them all.

This is simply in regards to your blanket statement of "French products are all same, overpriced load of crap"

When you have android phones from china performing equally good or better
in daily tasks and at fraction of the cost.

Cool
Wake me up when those Chinese phones, already packed with CCP spyware straight from the factory is able to do something like this

 

[AbRaj]

Let me make one thing absolutely clear to you before everything else; WE'RE IN NO WAY A POOR MILITARY
We can easily spare more than $0.65bn for a piecemeal order of just 6 AH-64s. We can buy the most obnoxiously expensive sniper rifle in the world. More than $1.5bn goes to pensions.
The financial decisions may look like those of a 23 yo South Delhi girl, but never poor.

Now let's talk about the said missile but with numbers
• In 2023 a joint order for AIM-120s was placed by Germany and Sweden; 1,219 missiles for $3.5bn.
Per unit cost comes to around $2.8mn
• In 2019 Brazil signed a deal with MBDA worth €200mn for 100 Meteors
Per unit cost comes to around $2.2mn

So I'm bit curious to know about how exactly you came up with this "silver bullet", can't be used as primary weapon theory.

If we're going to discuss what we should have done or what China is or how we could have used our budget more judiciously then go through my previous posts. From forcing IAF - IN to order ORCA instead of this Mk-1A/Rafale/MRFA/Mk-2 circus to focusing on disruptive strategies I've covered them all.

This is simply in regards to your blanket statement of "French products are all same, overpriced load of crap"

Cool
Wake me up when those Chinese phones, already packed with CCP spyware straight from the factory is able to do something like this
View attachment 17900

What I understand is that nobody can win a war with imported and expensive weapons from non aligned countries until you surrender your sovereignty to those producing it, like UK/France did to Americans. We need our own cheap weapons to do the heavy lifting. In our case everything is imported starting from Assault rifles and their ammunitions to subs and Heavy lifters. In protracted war with an adversary like China, it just can’t survive after few weeks. We will be depending on local ARs , Astras and LCAs thereafter.
Some will outright ban the export to pressurise us and some will show their inability to help us in war time due to their own interest

 

[samsaptaka]

Will any one face jail for corruption? Idts.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1865203533928370636?t=7-bRmy63ZAvKkay40dO96g&s=19

How did Hermes clear trials ?
Ssssh.. didn't you know, there are no trials for imported maal. Best kept secret of our armed forces

 

[jaijaganath]

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/defence-more-delays-for-project-75i-aip-dilemma-stuck-between-germany-and-spain-3686521/

 

[rohitb3]

How did Hermes clear trials ?
Ssssh.. didn't you know, there are no trials for imported maal. Best kept secret of our armed forces

Adani and Elbit combo. What can u expect?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Will any one face jail for corruption? Idts.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1865203533928370636?t=7-bRmy63ZAvKkay40dO96g&s=19

TAPAS had to be shitcanned to make room for this waffle. Can't have TAPAS serving, because it makes the import redundant. So jack up the requirements for TAPAS and send ADE on a wild goose chase. Which begs the question, can the general staff officers be relied upon during active wartime. These people are not serious about national security. Not when they are shamelessly and desperately squeezing in an import here and an import there. They act like it's their last day out in the sun. Any general staff officer sending their kids to study abroad must be scrutinized by public prosecutors. Any corruption related to bribery, in case of imports, must be brought to a civilian court for the gross misuse of taxpayer money.

 

[Blood+]

Yup, just 16 Type 055

The whole point of including just one class (Type 055s) was to juxtapose the number of available missiles as compared to our whole frontline fleet; 1,792 cells.

One reason for not including them was the fact that except for 52Ds they don't field large U-VLS like 55s so I'd had to go through each to get the numbers. Another reason was that if I had included just one more class of PLA-N frontline ship then also I'd have looked like an absolute masscare for us.

But for a rough idea I can do a bit...
1. 16x Type 055 in the aforementioned configuration; 960 AShMs and 1408 SAMs
2. 30x Type 052D; 480 AShMs and 1520 SAMs
3. 3x Type 052C; 24 AShMs and 152 SAMs
4. 40x Type 054A; 320 AShMs and 1280 SAMs
5............
6............
Total: Way too many ships; Hella AShMs and a ton of SAMs

Currently, we're absolutely cooked with two primary pain points according to me

1. We've no means to engage them without getting engaged.
Our max AShM range is 850km and there's is 1,200km.

2. We've nothing to defend us
Their primary offensive weapon is going to be Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile and as of now there's absolutely no ABM capabilities on our ships. Barak-8 may theoretically provide some coverage with hopes and prayers but against a salvo we're just sitting ducks. They on the other hand already have ABMs.

Turn the AN into a hedgehog as we were discussing the other day.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1865352883564097849

 

[Ayan Barat]

Turn the AN into a hedgehog as we were discussing the other day.

To be honest that's perhaps the only thing that we have that can stand any chance against not just a frontal assault but also increase the stand-off distance for us. If we put just the currently active offensive systems on A&N, even then also it looks promising.

But this might provide a false perspective of things as we'd also need to add sufficient defensive capabilities to it. In case of a war this tiny area would face the densest attack someone has ever seen in history. All the DongFengs, swarms of fighters with CM-400AKGs type missiles, H-6Ks with KD-21s everyone would try to get a piece of the defence. Not to mention other "innovative" things like sabotage and attack from Myanmar. Even if a single layer gets compromised, it'll provide gap for others to sneak in.
Every single ADS asset and not just current but even future ones need to be there; even Guam would be ashamed.

Topped off by some really capable SPY-6 type radar. Only then it would make any sense.

Otherwise, if we let our chalta hai attitude get creeped in any three of these; offense, defence or sensor then there's no point in investing so much of capital.
A single loose end and the whole "Unsinkable Ship" would become a modern "Maginot Line"

 

[Blood+]

To be honest that's perhaps the only thing that we have that can stand any chance against not just a frontal assault but also increase the stand-off distance for us. If we put just the currently active offensive systems on A&N, even then also it looks promising.
View attachment 18048
But this might provide a false perspective of things as we'd also need to add sufficient defensive capabilities to it. In case of a war this tiny area would face the densest attack someone has ever seen in history. All the DongFengs, swarms of fighters with CM-400AKGs type missiles, H-6Ks with KD-21s everyone would try to get a piece of the defence. Not to mention other "innovative" things like sabotage and attack from Myanmar. Even if a single layer gets compromised, it'll provide gap for others to sneak in.
Every single ADS asset and not just current but even future ones need to be there; even Guam would be ashamed.
View attachment 18051
Topped off by some really capable SPY-6 type radar. Only then it would make any sense.

Otherwise, if we let our chalta hai attitude get creeped in any three of these; offense, defence or sensor then there's no point in investing so much of capital.
A single loose end and the whole "Unsinkable Ship" would become a modern "Maginot Line"

Well, of course!! Why else would I use the term 'hedgehog'?? And I'll even go one step further - we'll need underground hardened facilities for all our assets on top of deploying every type of SAMs and air defense guns - both current and future ones.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Why else would I use the term 'hedgehog'??

Spoiler: Maybe coz they're so dang cute