Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Ayan Barat]

Is this the design for NGC? The superstructure & the MF-STAR Panel are visibly different from P-17A.

View attachment 21598

- there is a smaller version of MF-STAR designed for smaller vessels like corvettes and frigate; like the Sa'ar 6 pictured. First time seeing on a non-Israeli design
- given how lightly armed it is, just 16x Barak-8 in bow...it definitely has the feel of an Indian vessel.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

View attachment 21623
- there is a smaller version of MF-STAR designed for smaller vessels like corvettes and frigate; like the Sa'ar 6 pictured. First time seeing on a non-Israeli design
- given how lightly armed it is, just 16x Barak-8 in bow...it definitely has the feel of an Indian vessel.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1878474458270155023

 

[rohitb3]

IAI must be paying A LOT AND A LOT of bribes to keep securing orders for MFSTAR and delaying India's own AESA progress.

 

[Binayak95]

About the crew vs automation debate.

Read about them, had some thoughts I would like to place here.

The Japs, the Europeans and the SoKos are reducing crew not for maximising weapon fitment or to increase survivability or any other reason - they are reducing them because they find it increasingly impossible to man the ships they are building.

Heck the RN cant even man existing ships, and several of the Type 23s (excellent fucking ships - last of the once great British design and build yards) are laid up for lack of crew. Same is the fate with their nuke sub fleet.

so, lets get that out of the way - they are reducing crew strength out of sheer desperation.

Why do we have highish crew numbers - because WE CAN. It is always helpful to have extra hands on paper, if not in reality. Nearly every ship sails with 90 - 95 % of on paper strength, thanks to leaves, sickness, TDs, etc etc.

And in actual operations, every crew position should ideally have 3 men/women. To operate in shifts and maintain peak performance. IN can still a 6 shift watch cycle thanks to this crew numbers (the offrs get fucked - ask me how i know and there's a story of a grumpy XO doing goddamn fire drills during Dog Watch)

 

[shade2]

Is this the design for NGC? The superstructure & the MF-STAR Panel are visibly different from P-17A.

View attachment 21598

View attachment 21597

@Adm_Kenobi @Binayak95

From here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Isq-SWbGeQ

Good catch, seems to be using the MF-STAR variant that the [MOD WARNING: Enough of the slurs] Israelis use on their Saar 6 corvettes or INS Lahav, pic related




Size of MF-STAR used by P-15A/B and P-17A with BEL workers for comparison





Size of MF-STAR smaller size on Saar 6 with [MOD WARNING: enough of the slurs] workers for comparison

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/Aditya_G_Social/status/1878010781305872823

Comparison between Shivalik and Nilgiri side profiles

Shivalik



Nilgiri



They have increased the deck height as i make out from eyeballing so no need for raised platform for VLS and all anymore

 

[DancingPeacock]

IAI must be paying A LOT AND A LOT of bribes to keep securing orders for MFSTAR and delaying India's own AESA progress.

BEL seems to be running the gravy train, but DRDO could have easily tied up with companies like Astra Microwave or Data Patterns. Instead, we have this PSU dog-and-pony show.


Production DPSUs should never have been given independent status instead of being directly under DRDO. That was a mistake. Now, foreign products keep making their way into this corrupt system.


I know exactly how it works—by the time the babus figure it out, foreign vendors come in with their upgraded versions, launching gravy train 2.0. How exactly does BEL plan to build its capability? It's been 10 years, and we're still importing these things.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

View: https://x.com/Aditya_G_Social/status/1878010781305872823

Comparison between Shivalik and Nilgiri side profiles

Shivalik

View attachment 21633

Nilgiri

View attachment 21634

They have increased the deck height as i make out from eyeballing so no need for raised platform for VLS and all anymore

 

[Blood+]

About the crew vs automation debate.

Read about them, had some thoughts I would like to place here.

The Japs, the Europeans and the SoKos are reducing crew not for maximising weapon fitment or to increase survivability or any other reason - they are reducing them because they find it increasingly impossible to man the ships they are building.

Heck the RN cant even man existing ships, and several of the Type 23s (excellent fucking ships - last of the once great British design and build yards) are laid up for lack of crew. Same is the fate with their nuke sub fleet.

so, lets get that out of the way - they are reducing crew strength out of sheer desperation.

Why do we have highish crew numbers - because WE CAN. It is always helpful to have extra hands on paper, if not in reality. Nearly every ship sails with 90 - 95 % of on paper strength, thanks to leaves, sickness, TDs, etc etc.

And in actual operations, every crew position should ideally have 3 men/women. To operate in shifts and maintain peak performance. IN can still a 6 shift watch cycle thanks to this crew numbers (the offrs get fucked - ask me how i know and there's a story of a grumpy XO doing goddamn fire drills during Dog Watch)

Then why leave so much deck space just empty??

 

[Bleh]

Is this the design for NGC? The superstructure & the MF-STAR Panel are visibly different from P-17A.

View attachment 21598

View attachment 21597

@Adm_Kenobi @Binayak95

From here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Isq-SWbGeQ

Lovely!

since any UVLs we make needs to accomodate brahmos i used the UVLM here.which one looks better?

Right one is not possible. The hull starts narrowing at the front & it can't fit BraHmos' length at the sides.

 

[Blood+]

Lovely!


Right one is not possible. The hull starts narrowing at the front & it can't fit BraHmos' length at the sides.

It'd be if they raised that section of the deck.

 

[Binayak95]

Then why leave so much deck space just empty??

Paise.

And waiting on NGCM + VL SRSAM production

 

[Blood+]

Paise.

And waiting on NGCM + VL SRSAM production

I Get that but why not install the VLS modules and leave them empty until adquate funds can be arranged??

 

[Ayan Barat]

Comparison between Shivalik and Nilgiri side profiles
Shivalik

Nilgiri

They have increased the deck height as i make out from eyeballing so no need for raised platform for VLS and all anymore

The only thing common between them is their similar displacement.

Shivalik is the link between completely Soviet designed vessels and indigenously designed one; it's like an upgraded Talwar. And it's also the point from where we started to focus more on RCS reduction. Same Fregat, arm launcher, weird mast as Talwars but better ADS and significantly improved stealth, interestingly if the bow and mast is modified even a bit then Shivalik might be the most stealthy ship designed here. The silhouette is extremely simple

Corvus is like 99% accurate with his explanation of merging...

Now comes P-15 Alpha and we move quite far from Soviet design. Most of the weapons and doctrines are still Soviet but the design has now changed. And this exact same layout is used again on Bravos. But even more interestingly, it's used in Nilgiris too albeit by shortening a bit. Take a P-15, select the area around second smokestack...

...and delete it.

And there you go, that's more or less what's Nilgiri is.
This is the reason I call them P-15 Charlie.

 

[Gslv Mk3]

The only thing common between them is their similar displacement.

Shivalik is the link between completely Soviet designed vessels and indigenously designed one; it's like an upgraded Talwar. And it's also the point from where we started to focus more on RCS reduction. Same Fregat, arm launcher, weird mast as Talwars but better ADS and significantly improved stealth, interestingly if the bow and mast is modified even a bit then Shivalik might be the most stealthy ship designed here. The silhouette is extremely simple
View attachment 21638
Corvus is like 99% accurate with his explanation of merging...

Now comes P-15 Alpha and we move quite far from Soviet design. Most of the weapons and doctrines are still Soviet but the design has now changed. And this exact same layout is used again on Bravos. But even more interestingly, it's used in Nilgiris too albeit by shortening a bit. Take a P-15, select the area around second smokestack...
View attachment 21639
...and delete it.
View attachment 21640
And there you go, that's more or less what's Nilgiri is.
This is the reason I call them P-15 Charlie.

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Is this the design for NGC? The superstructure & the MF-STAR Panel are visibly different from P-17A.

View attachment 21598

View attachment 21597

@Adm_Kenobi @Binayak95

From here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Isq-SWbGeQ%5B

Looks to be a very capable ship. Very likely to be the reason why NGMV are so gimped in their firepower by comparison.

NGC (Next Generation Corvette)

Next Generation Corvette (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar	200–400 km	Primary radar, smaller version of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR
1 x HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	40 km	Primary sonar for ASW
1 x ACTAS	60 km	Towed array sonar for ASW
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely to be STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
8 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 Barak 8 (MRSAM)	90-100 km	Primary SAM for anti ship missile and area defense
2 x tripe 324mm Varunastra torpedo	50 km	Primary ASW weapon
1 x HAL Dhruv (or) Sea King Mk. 42B		Single helicopter for ASW role
Comments :
8 vessels to be built. Frigate sized (~3500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Brahmaputra Class frigates and Kora Class corvettes.

NGMV (Next Generation Missile Vessel)

Next Generation Missile Vessel (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x MFR X-Band AESA radar	200–300 km (?)	Navalized version of X-BMFR
1 x Lynx-U2 fire control radar	(?)	Targeting for SRGM and CIWS
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely passed-on from P 15A/B ships with STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
4 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 x VL-SRSAM	80 km	Fitted for but not with, anti ship missile and area defense
1 x quad SA-N-5 Grail launcher	4.2 km	Manually aimed MANPADS
Comments :
6 vessels to be built. Corvette sized (~1500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Veer Class corvettes.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1878683718837322000

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

Looks to be a very capable ship. Very likely to be the reason why NGMV are so gimped in their firepower by comparison.

NGC (Next Generation Corvette)

View attachment 21646

Next Generation Corvette (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar	200–400 km	Primary radar, smaller version of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR
1 x HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	40 km	Primary sonar for ASW
1 x ACTAS	60 km	Towed array sonar for ASW
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely to be STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
8 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 Barak 8 (MRSAM)	90-100 km	Primary SAM for anti ship missile and area defense
2 x tripe 324mm Varunastra torpedo	50 km	Primary ASW weapon
1 x HAL Dhruv (or) Sea King Mk. 42B		Single helicopter for ASW role
Comments :
8 vessels to be built. Frigate sized (~3500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Brahmaputra Class frigates and Kora Class corvettes.

NGMV (Next Generation Missile Vessel)

View attachment 21648

Next Generation Missile Vessel (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x MFR X-Band AESA radar	200–300 km (?)	Navalized version of X-BMFR
1 x Lynx-U2 fire control radar	(?)	Targeting for SRGM and CIWS
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely passed-on from P 15A/B ships with STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
4 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 x VL-SRSAM	80 km	Fitted for but not with, anti ship missile and area defense
1 x quad SA-N-5 Grail launcher	4.2 km	Manually aimed MANPADS
Comments :
6 vessels to be built. Corvette sized (~1500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Veer Class corvettes.

Adjusted contrast and all a little bit

 

[DancingPeacock]

Looks to be a very capable ship. Very likely to be the reason why NGMV are so gimped in their firepower by comparison.

NGC (Next Generation Corvette)

View attachment 21646

Next Generation Corvette (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar	200–400 km	Primary radar, smaller version of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR
1 x HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	40 km	Primary sonar for ASW
1 x ACTAS	60 km	Towed array sonar for ASW
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely to be STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
8 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 Barak 8 (MRSAM)	90-100 km	Primary SAM for anti ship missile and area defense
2 x tripe 324mm Varunastra torpedo	50 km	Primary ASW weapon
1 x HAL Dhruv (or) Sea King Mk. 42B		Single helicopter for ASW role
Comments :
8 vessels to be built. Frigate sized (~3500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Brahmaputra Class frigates and Kora Class corvettes.

NGMV (Next Generation Missile Vessel)

View attachment 21648

Next Generation Missile Vessel (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x MFR X-Band AESA radar	200–300 km (?)	Navalized version of X-BMFR
1 x Lynx-U2 fire control radar	(?)	Targeting for SRGM and CIWS
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely passed-on from P 15A/B ships with STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
4 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16 x VL-SRSAM	80 km	Fitted for but not with, anti ship missile and area defense
1 x quad SA-N-5 Grail launcher	4.2 km	Manually aimed MANPADS
Comments :
6 vessels to be built. Corvette sized (~1500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Veer Class corvettes.

There seems to be 2x4=8 Per One side. I think you didn't count the other side which is hidden from this view. Those launchers seem to be too small for , maybe -NG? Or NASM-MR? ITCM?