Indian Politics and Democracy

[why so serious?]

We had visionaries

Laxmanrao Kirloskar: he brought industrialization to far flung rural Maharashtra. The rural plant setup by him sends components to ISRO.

After independence evey single large scale village should have had 1 to 2 factories, that would have uplifted the masses.


View attachment 15484

Laxmanrao Kirloskar started from a single bicycle shop in Belgaum.

I personally know a family whose 3rd generation is employee of Kirloskar brothers. The latest addition to the company completed his engineering in Pune and moved back to Kirloskarvadi.

Kirloskarvadi has the factory as well as city for employees, it was set up on a barren 32 acre land , there were no roads , power lines no drainage back then The factory village was operational in 1910 full 2 years before Jamshedpur.

Like in India Cadbury is synonyms of chocolate in Egypt Kirloskar is for Pumps.

 

[ezsasa]

coupta doing a political coverup, in this case brushing under the carpet the procurement and military infra backlogs created by his favourite political party. throwing money at this now is not going to compensate for lost time specifically between 2004 and 2014.
=======

India must spend right for two-front deterrence. ‘Jugaad’ against China & Pakistan won’t cut it​

View: https://youtu.be/dT98jnEaERs

 

[shade2]

coupta doing a political coverup, in this case brushing under the carpet the procurement and military infra backlogs created by his favourite political party. throwing money at this now is not going to compensate for lost time specifically between 2004 and 2014.
=======

India must spend right for two-front deterrence. ‘Jugaad’ against China & Pakistan won’t cut it​

View: https://youtu.be/dT98jnEaERs

From the article version of this 100% coupta lurks here, or the guy who prepares the content for the article lurks here

 

[Anonymous Bharata]

From the article version of this 100% coupta lurks here, or the guy who prepares the content for the article lurks here

Does this mean, coupta ji knows that we call him coupta ji ??

 

[Azaad]

coupta doing a political coverup, in this case brushing under the carpet the procurement and military infra backlogs created by his favourite political party. throwing money at this now is not going to compensate for lost time specifically between 2004 and 2014.
=======

India must spend right for two-front deterrence. ‘Jugaad’ against China & Pakistan won’t cut it​

View: https://youtu.be/dT98jnEaERs

From the article version of this 100% coupta lurks here, or the guy who prepares the content for the article lurks here

I'd have to say I agree with Clutterji on this one . While there's no excuse for the inaction during the UPA'a tenure , it's been more than a decade with Modi in power & the state of the services are before you .

I'm afraid if we are at the receiving end when we go up against China nobody'd mention the UPA , it'd be Modi's legacy which'd be tarnished if he's no longer occupying the chair .

While there's a lot to commend & complain about Modi's administration in both the terms, my most bitter complaints & criticism would be reserved for his defence policy if he ever had one to begin with.

This is not to say that during his tenure our defence has been a washout . There's a lot of good which has come out of it but the state of the Air Force & the IA along with arbitrary policies like the Agniveer scheme , the measly increase in defence budgets after our showdown with China in 2017 & especially after 2020 , the absolute refusal to either entrust entire CI operations including C&C along with the budget & identification of a force reporting to the Home Ministry, after due training & equipping it like for instance the CRPF or alternatively detach the RR from the IA & dedicate this formation for CI leaving the IA to focus on war fighting among others will rank right at the top of my list .

The saddest part is they've not yet come to terms with the situation. I still don't see any urgency w.r.t to the acquisition processes at least within the IA where most if not all the solutions are to be found within the country itself. Absolutely pathetic state of affairs.

 

[shade2]

I'd have to say I agree with Clutterji on this one . While there's no excuse for the inaction during the UPA'a tenure , it's been more than a decade with Modi in power & the state of the services are before you .

I'm afraid if we are at the receiving end when we go up against China nobody'd mention the UPA , it'd be Modi's legacy which'd be tarnished if he's no longer occupying the chair .

While there's a lot to commend & complain about Modi's administration in both the terms, my most bitter complaints & criticism would be reserved for his defence policy if he ever had one to begin with.

This is not to say that during his tenure our defence has been a washout . There's a lot of good which has come out of it but the state of the Air Force & the IA along with arbitrary policies like the Agniveer scheme , the measly increase in defence budgets after our showdown with China in 2017 & especially after 2020 , the absolute refusal to either entrust entire CI operations including C&C along with the budget & identification of a force reporting to the Home Ministry, after due training & equipping it like for instance the CRPF or alternatively detach the RR from the IA & dedicate this formation for CI leaving the IA to focus on war fighting among others will rank right at the top of my list .

The saddest part is they've not yet come to terms with the situation. I still don't see any urgency w.r.t to the acquisition processes at least within the IA where most if not all the solutions are to be found within the country itself. Absolutely pathetic state of affairs.

I agree fully, it's not as a joke i said that Coupta or some of his staff lurks here.
The points he has brought out have been discussed either here or in previous forum, like aerial refuelling tankers, AWACS, torpedos wagera.

It's def not from Twitter, that's mostly a shithole with pearls here and there.

Leadership firmly believes in "today is not the era of war", unable to or unwilling to see that in event of loss people will blame them only.
Their party will also be radioactive for atleast the next decade.
Perhaps Uncle Sam will insert himself in an make us his vassal in exchange for (((protection)))
Genrols on another trip altogether of extracting maximum malai possible, even through emergency procurements for every single thing.

 

[crazywithmath]

Leadership firmly believes in "today is not the era of war", unable to or unwilling to see that in event of loss people will blame them only.

Disagree, leadership is grade 1 kanjoos. Standard fiscal chindigiri this is...

 

[shade2]

Disagree, leadership is grade 1 kanjoos.

Elaborate kijiye?

If this kanjoosi is legit we're in even deeper shit than just "today is not the era of war".
My BP will shoot up if it's cutting defence budget for more space for their freebies to win elections

 

[crazywithmath]

Elaborate kijiye?

If this kanjoosi is legit we're in even deeper shit than just "today is not the era of war".

Oh, we are indeed in deeper shit; you found out only now?

They are refusing to increase allocations in defense, refusing to cut fuel prices despite cheap crude (and letting OMCs and Amabani pocket billions; just because the oil PSUs will be providing record breaking dividends) and refusing to provide stimuli despite clear signs of struggles in many sections of the economy just because leaderji wants a rating upgrade (hence the fiscal chindigiri).

Pick any sector (including, but not limited to defense) - the chindigiri is there.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://twitter.com/sharansetty2/status/1857633610355868048?s=19

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

It seems Ambani did something that irked Motabhai.

 

[ezsasa]

arbitrary policies like the Agniveer scheme , the measly increase in defence budgets after our showdown with China in 2017 & especially after 2020 , the absolute refusal to either entrust entire CI operations including C&C along with the budget & identification of a force reporting to the Home Ministry, after due training & equipping it like for instance the CRPF or alternatively detach the RR from the IA & dedicate this formation for CI leaving the IA to focus on war fighting among others will rank right at the top of my list .

- agniveer scheme comes from kargil review committee report. any gormint that takes it up, there would have been a pushback since it's a structural reform. there would some group or the other that would not be happy with some part of it.

- on defence budgets, coupta is dumbing down the problem statement. let's take the case of BPJs and helmets, MKU helmet order was about 170-180 crore, not a big amount as such, if budget is the only issue, how is it that even after 8 years we are still discussing BPJs and helmets for infantry. the helmets we see now, the order was given before doklam happened. for that order to be given, DAP was modified in 2016. first lot BPJ order was given in 2018, feedback was that it was too heavy. RFI was again released in 2022. same goes for each and every defence item that has been ordered since 2014/15. time needed for feedback loops need to be factored in, is my point. it seems to be the case that, time taken for some of the processes can't be sped up beyond a point with in the forces and development agencies.

from a defence enthusiast's perspective one might get caught up in daily details, step back and look at the range of items we are tracking as parallel procurement processes for past few years, from bpj, helmets, assault rifles, grenades, uniforms, vehicles (light and heavy), tanks, SDR, NVG, transport and fighter aircraft, missile(all categories) etc.. this is an entire spectrum of change that is happening.

- didn't get this CI/CT point. need more info on timeline and specifics. if this is coming under operational planning, there is nothing much we can infer since those decisions are not political in nature, co-ordination handled at DGMO, secretary and joint secretary level.

- and lastly, i hope it is nobody's case that there are ready made solutions for every problem/feedback that comes up. for established procedures maybe, but when fundamentals themselves are undergoing a change, may be not.

 

[Azaad]

- agniveer scheme comes from kargil review committee report. any gormint that takes it up, there would have been a pushback since it's a structural reform. there would some group or the other that would not be happy with some part of it.

It's the tenure . I've remarked earlier that prior to 1962 we had something similar to the Agniveer scheme where recruits were put through an 8 year instead of a 4 year Tour of Duty .

- on defence budgets, coupta is dumbing down the problem statement. let's take the case of BPJs and helmets, MKU helmet order was about 170-180 crore, not a big amount as such, if budget is the only issue, how is it that even after 8 years we are still discussing BPJs and helmets for infantry. the helmets we see now, the order was given before doklam happened. for that order to be given, DAP was modified in 2016. first lot BPJ order was given in 2018, feedback was that it was too heavy. RFI was again released in 2022. same goes for each and every defence item that has been ordered since 2014/15. time needed for feedback loops need to be factored in, is my point. it seems to be the case that, time taken for some of the processes can't be sped up beyond a point with in the forces and development agencies

It obviously means the IA is not technically competent or serious enough to pursue the issue bringing it to closure within a fixed period of time viz the time gap between 2018-22 . Given the implications & importance of the project this could've been compressed to a year or 2 at the most .

Then there's the issue of rockets which in this case happens to be the Pinaka in guided & unguided versions . The inertia behind the philosophy of getting these rockets from 75- 3 / 400 from testing to induction particularly after the summer of 2020 needs to be seen to be believed. Are you seeing any urgency here by the IA ? This when anytime after 2027-28 we can expect the LAC to be activated. Ditto for the LCH , Artillery - SP or tracked or towed & on & on .

from a defence enthusiast's perspective one might get caught up in daily details, step back and look at the range of items we are tracking as parallel procurement processes for past few years, from bpj, helmets, assault rifles, grenades, uniforms, vehicles (light and heavy), tanks, SDR, NVG, transport and fighter aircraft, missile(all categories) etc.. this is an entire spectrum of change that is happening.

Happening yes . On schedule or in double quick time . NO.

- didn't get this CI/CT point. need more info on timeline and specifics. if this is coming under operational planning, there is nothing much we can infer since those decisions are not political in nature, co-ordination handled at DGMO, secretary and joint secretary level.

Harks back to the larger point of using an army for CI operations over prolonged periods of time . You turn it into a CI para militia unfit ti fight conventional wars against peer sized enemies which is a charge often levelled against the IA . Then there's the issue of the budget of these CI operations . If I'm not mistaken it come out of the defence budget.

- and lastly, i hope it is nobody's case that there are ready made solutions for every problem/feedback that comes up. for established procedures maybe, but when fundamentals themselves are undergoing a change, may be not.

My humble submission is we are getting into a situation of too little too late if we've not already got into such a situation.

 

[ezsasa]

Harks back to the larger point of using an army for CI operations over prolonged periods of time . You turn it into a CI para militia unfit ti fight conventional wars against peer sized enemies which is a charge often levelled against the IA . Then there's the issue of the budget of these CI operations . If I'm not mistaken it come out of the defence budget.

this is an observation from a few months back, will have to go thru old budget documents to check for previous years.

"sustenance & operational readiness", technically it is revenue expenditure i.e Non-Salary Revenue

so looked at past PIB MoD statements when budget is released.
2021-22 = 54,624 crore
2023-24 = 62,431 crore
2024-25 = 92,088 crore

perhaps one way to read this (subject to correction), as a reason why IA and IN are able to deploy in quick time. IA doing area domination by deploying thousands of troops whenever tangos pop up in some sector, and IN making their presence felt in arabian sea. chini side op readiness is anyways there these days.

may be this is how VUCA looks like from budgeting perspective.
=====

Rs 92,088 crore for for sustenance & operational readiness​

he Government has allocated Rs 92,088 crore during the current FY under this head, which is 48% higher than the budgetary allocation of FY 2022-23.

Rs 6.22 lakh crore allocated to MoD, highest among Ministries, in Regular Union Budget 2024-25; 4.79% higher than FY 2023-24

In the Regular Union Budget of Financial Year (FY) 2024-25, Ministry of Defence (MoD) has been alloc

pib.gov.in

 

[Azaad]

this is an observation from a few months back, will have to go thru old budget documents to check for previous years.

That sustenance or operational readiness is a splendidly vague term . It could be about anything & everything from procuring spares to miscellaneous expenditure.

I think we ought to look at the salary structures apart from this head in the books of accounts. Where are the salaries of the formations posted under the RR coming from ? If it is from the defence budget are they being reimbursed an equivalent amount by the Home Ministry ?

 

[ezsasa]

That sustenance or operational readiness is a splendidly vague term . It could be about anything & everything from procuring spares to miscellaneous expenditure.

I think we ought to look at the salary structures apart from this head in the books of accounts. Where are the salaries of the formations posted under the RR coming from ? If it is from the defence budget are they being reimbursed an equivalent amount by the Home Ministry ?

security expenditure and vague information go hand in hand , for obvious reasons.

rr comes in defence budget, separate from pay, as per budget document.

and on an earlier point of gormint not spending enough, in 23-24 one can see in revised column that they have spent 28k crore more than allocated budget for IA and IAF, both FM and RM mentioned multiple times that , if there is a requirement they will allocate more. in congi times, this number used to be less than allocated budget.

https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/eb/sbe20.pdf

 

[shade2]

yup, i wouldn't be surprised if half of bjp supporters suffer from hypertension. the amount of frustration they give is mind boggling. Its kind of like they love to tease us. Like A gf who says she loves you and then does everything with other guys to give you a stroke.

They don't love to "tease us"
They just don't give a shit unless they think vote khatre me hai

Only things they do seem to have a laser focus is on checking off things on the "Chaddi Checklist" as i call it

Article 370 gaya
Mandir Wahi Bangaya
No UCC yet
No Waqf reform yet

They got so complacent in this year's LS elections after the heavy seat loss in MH and UP they are now doing "batenge toh katenge" after simping for the greens for the past 3-4 years and generally behaving (((secularly)))

Atleast earlier they used to use bulldozer, now even that door is closed by meelards.

 

[arjuntank]

View: https://x.com/MumbaichaDon/status/1857809105756295284

What is he saying?

 

[Screambowl]

Haan bhai sanatanio.. yo ke kar dala bhai? Waaa bete waah , ary mauj kardi tumne to
Na ho payega tumse

Shimla violence: Seven injured in dispute over temple between two Hindu groups, FIR registered

Violent clash between two Hindu groups in Shimla over temple ownership leads to injuries and FIRs.

www.thehindu.com

 

[arjuntank]

View: https://x.com/MeghUpdates/status/1858036570516783273


Really good one