Indian Small Arms and Weapons

Mr.Evil said:
I feel a 4x mounted with rds is better for rifles like our ak 203s or in this case m72/p72s
If we talk about magnifier combo I think holos+magnifier clears rds+magnifiers
Click to expand...
There are 4x , 5x and even 6x magnifier and they look great with hws and rds
I love how in terms of performance holos beat RDS in every way exept battery life now rds tech gave come long way "few rds " in performance is comparable to holos and have very long battery life from 10,000 to even 80,000 hour that is like 8 years in even less cost than holos
So due to cost and huge battery life rds would be my go to choice
 
one flaw in India's small arms discourse is that journos end up firing automatic guns, which ends being journos trying to talk on behalf of the fire arm rather than allowing the gun to speak for itself. the gun speaking for itself would be putting it thru paces on record like range, grouping, recoil etc.

since our civilians including journos "not allowed" to own fire arms, and even if they do they can't fire enough rounds to reach a stage of expertise in handling automatic rifles, ammo is not cheap even for a regular middle class family in non-prohibited bore. so it leaves recently retired officers who fired enough rounds up until recently are the only ones with enough muscle memory and familiarity with weapons handling, who can allow the weapon to speak for itself at a company's firing range.

all this does not matter since there is no civilian market for automatic weapons, but apparently public opinions do matter, since public tends to imagine things usually on the negative side when there are gaps in information. so might as well, have best possible relevant information in public domain instead of cheap tricks like full auto and slomo shots courtesy of journos.
 
ezsasa said:
one flaw in India's small arms discourse is that journos end up firing automatic guns, which ends being journos trying to talk on behalf of the fire arm rather than allowing the gun to speak for itself. the gun speaking for itself would be putting it thru paces on record like range, grouping, recoil etc.

since our civilians including journos "not allowed" to own fire arms, and even if they do they can't fire enough rounds to reach a stage of expertise in handling automatic rifles, ammo is not cheap even for a regular middle class family in non-prohibited bore. so it leaves recently retired officers who fired enough rounds up until recently are the only ones with enough muscle memory and familiarity with weapons handling, who can allow the weapon to speak for itself at a company's firing range.

all this does not matter since there is no civilian market for automatic weapons, but apparently public opinions do matter, since public tends to imagine things usually on the negative side when there are gaps in information. so might as well, have best possible relevant information in public domain instead of cheap tricks like full auto and slomo shots courtesy of journos.
Click to expand...
Lemme just sum up what you're trying to say real quick

"इक मिनिट में दाग सकती हैं 600 गोलीयां...500 मीटर तक दुश्मन को कर सकती है नेस्तनाबूद ये घातक रायफल"
 
Ayan Barat said:
Lemme just sum up what you're trying to say real quick

"इक मिनिट में दाग सकती हैं 600 गोलीयां...500 मीटर तक दुश्मन को कर सकती है नेस्तनाबूद ये घातक रायफल"
Click to expand...
with background music ....
 
It's my usual yapping time.

I always saw the grips on DRDO/OFB rifles and thought that there's no way they would be comfortable, especially the grips on things like MCIWS or this new Ugram.
Everyone in gun world seems to move to a steeper grip angle to better support a relaxed shooting position with some grips even going as steep as 15° but generally the current industry standard is 20°. Now compare that to Ugram where it's almost double at 38°.
Screenshot 2024-10-05 100431.webp
This may seem a very trivial thing to crib about but sadly, it's not.
Screenshot 2024-10-05 102002.webp
When we change the angle of our wrist (ulnar deviation in technical terms) we put our wrist in a position of mechanical disadvantage so the same force of 10kg without deflection can feel like 12kg with it. Moreover, it's not a relaxed position as it puts a lot of strain on small wrist muscles resulting in considerable discomfort or even pain if used for a prolonged period. So, the closer it's to 180° the better it would be.

For the first time, I saw someone shouldering Ugram in that video of Sandeep, and it was evident.
Screenshot 2024-10-05 100807.webp
Now compare this to a contemporary of this era like HK433
Screenshot 2024-10-05 101217.webp
 
Ayan Barat said:
It's my usual yapping time.

I always saw the grips on DRDO/OFB rifles and thought that there's no way they would be comfortable, especially the grips on things like MCIWS or this new Ugram.
Everyone in gun world seems to move to a steeper grip angle to better support a relaxed shooting position with some grips even going as steep as 15° but generally the current industry standard is 20°. Now compare that to Ugram where it's almost double at 38°.
View attachment 11255
This may seem a very trivial thing to crib about but sadly, it's not.
View attachment 11257
When we change the angle of our wrist (ulnar deviation in technical terms) we put our wrist in a position of mechanical disadvantage so the same force of 10kg without deflection can feel like 12kg with it. Moreover, it's not a relaxed position as it puts a lot of strain on small wrist muscles resulting in considerable discomfort or even pain if used for a prolonged period. So, the closer it's to 180° the better it would be.

For the first time, I saw someone shouldering Ugram in that video of Sandeep, and it was evident.
View attachment 11258
Now compare this to a contemporary of this era like HK433
View attachment 11259
Click to expand...
Are you on X/Twitter by any chance? Would be great to have threads with some sane content on Indian firearms, especially on issues that actually make a difference, which not many people have any idea about.
 
Ayan Barat said:
It's my usual yapping time.

I always saw the grips on DRDO/OFB rifles and thought that there's no way they would be comfortable, especially the grips on things like MCIWS or this new Ugram.
Everyone in gun world seems to move to a steeper grip angle to better support a relaxed shooting position with some grips even going as steep as 15° but generally the current industry standard is 20°. Now compare that to Ugram where it's almost double at 38°.
View attachment 11255
This may seem a very trivial thing to crib about but sadly, it's not.
View attachment 11257
When we change the angle of our wrist (ulnar deviation in technical terms) we put our wrist in a position of mechanical disadvantage so the same force of 10kg without deflection can feel like 12kg with it. Moreover, it's not a relaxed position as it puts a lot of strain on small wrist muscles resulting in considerable discomfort or even pain if used for a prolonged period. So, the closer it's to 180° the better it would be.

For the first time, I saw someone shouldering Ugram in that video of Sandeep, and it was evident.
View attachment 11258
Now compare this to a contemporary of this era like HK433
View attachment 11259
Click to expand...
Ergonomics is not ARDE's forte TBH...
Call me an arm chair general or keyboard warrior, but it's a fact.
 
ForgeMZ said:
Ergonomics is not ARDE's forte TBH...
Call me an arm chair general or keyboard warrior, but it's a fact.
Click to expand...
This is where the Private Sector needs to step in, ARDE needs to give some amount of leeway to their DCPPs to make cosmetic and ergonomic changes to the firearms they've been given licenses to manufacture/co-develop from the initial stages itself and not later offered as an extra feature or upgraded variant.
 
Last edited:
Ayan Barat said:
It's my usual yapping time.

I always saw the grips on DRDO/OFB rifles and thought that there's no way they would be comfortable, especially the grips on things like MCIWS or this new Ugram.
Everyone in gun world seems to move to a steeper grip angle to better support a relaxed shooting position with some grips even going as steep as 15° but generally the current industry standard is 20°. Now compare that to Ugram where it's almost double at 38°.
View attachment 11255
This may seem a very trivial thing to crib about but sadly, it's not.
View attachment 11257
When we change the angle of our wrist (ulnar deviation in technical terms) we put our wrist in a position of mechanical disadvantage so the same force of 10kg without deflection can feel like 12kg with it. Moreover, it's not a relaxed position as it puts a lot of strain on small wrist muscles resulting in considerable discomfort or even pain if used for a prolonged period. So, the closer it's to 180° the better it would be.

For the first time, I saw someone shouldering Ugram in that video of Sandeep, and it was evident.
View attachment 11258
Now compare this to a contemporary of this era like HK433
View attachment 11259
Click to expand...


Yup the wrist position is screwed up. Will create wrist pain with prolonged usage. Also ARDE somehow incapable of making the rivet flush type. It always looks crude. Finally they should remove that idiotic sling ring attached on the barrel. Every XYZ modern guns don't have this and barrel is pretty much undisturbed.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
Yup the wrist position is screwed up. Will create wrist pain with prolonged usage. Also ARDE somehow incapable of making the rivet flush type. It always looks crude. Finally they should remove that idiotic sling ring attached on the barrel. Every XYZ modern guns don't have this and barrel is pretty much undisturbed.
Click to expand...
I believe the only reason they still have those idiotic sling mounts, is the Indian Army's refusal to adopt modern Quick-Detach Slings. Which then leads to them utilising jugaad methods to attach slings like we've seen on the Sig-716. Not arguing with your point on the position of where the mounting point is attached.
 
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