Indian Special Forces

[hkdas]

View: https://t.me/based_sigma_1210/2503

 

[hkdas]

what's a good training centre be in your opinion ? An institute that imparts full spectrum of special operations training to marcos at a single place ?

It's impossible to provide full spectrum training at single place.
What Marcos/para SF/Garuds need is KASOTC like training school. Not some jugad set up like SFTS in Bakloh or in nahan or NSWTTC in Goa or INS Karna.

 

[Arad Operator]

It's impossible to provide full spectrum training at single place.
What Marcos/para SF/Garuds need is KASOTC like training school. Not some jugad set up like SFTS in Bakloh or in nahan or NSWTTC in Goa or INS Karna.

"Jugaad" Really?

Leave training, just enlighten us about how many times have you visited SFTS/NSWTTC/GRTC? And what you found there that was so bad that you have to call em 'Jugaad'?

 

[Jedi Operator]

It's impossible to provide full spectrum training at single place.
What Marcos/para SF/Garuds need is KASOTC like training school. Not some jugad set up like SFTS in Bakloh or in nahan or NSWTTC in Goa or INS Karna.

Jordanian SF is small so it makes sense to have KASOTC....SFTS, NSWTTC is not jugad it's specific to their needs. Even in SBS and SAS, Poole and Hereford are different, and so in the US, even when their budget was small compared to now (infact after Vietnam their SFs went through a massive budget cut and it took them 2 decades to bring the capabilites back...which is why by 1990s and GWOT they were kicking ass), the US had NSW and JFK Special Warfare Center different

KASOTC is more like a jugad because they had to take into consideration small population, small space etc, SFTS, NSWTTC, Manesar, GRTC are all fine but need better upgradations

 

[Jedi Operator]

@Airborne22 @Noob @Jedi Operator which two former Airborne units you guyz think deserved the SF conversion, post July 2022?

My take:-

5 and 6 PARA Airborne deserved conversion the most!

5 PARA(Airborne) now 5 PARA SF, one of my favourite OG unit. Already had several battle and theatre honors, operated like a Cdo unit despite being an airborne infantry during the wars of 1971 and 1999.
Post conversion, its the best in CFF and other skills among the other erstwhile Airborne units.

6 PARA(Airborne) now 6 PARA SF, my second most favourite OG unit. Performed extremely well during the wars of 1971 and 1999 under the aegis of 50th PARA(I) Brigade. Spearheaded the Op Cactus in Maldives with 3&7 PARA as the body/reserve. One of the most successful units in CI-CT and HAW, conversion was delayed two decades but they deserved to be converted.

I dont think I'd consider any. SF should be different from Para. British Paras also operate like Rangers, commando like units but that doesnt make them SF

 

[Noob]

@Airborne22 @Noob @Jedi Operator which two former Airborne units you guyz think deserved the SF conversion, post July 2022?

My take:-

5 and 6 PARA Airborne deserved conversion the most!

5 PARA(Airborne) now 5 PARA SF, one of my favourite OG unit. Already had several battle and theatre honors, operated like a Cdo unit despite being an airborne infantry during the wars of 1971 and 1999.
Post conversion, its the best in CFF and other skills among the other erstwhile Airborne units.

6 PARA(Airborne) now 6 PARA SF, my second most favourite OG unit. Performed extremely well during the wars of 1971 and 1999 under the aegis of 50th PARA(I) Brigade. Spearheaded the Op Cactus in Maldives with 3&7 PARA as the body/reserve. One of the most successful units in CI-CT and HAW, conversion was delayed two decades but they deserved to be converted.

If I had to choose I would have chosen 6 but if I had a choice I would have raised a different sf regiment for Army

 

[hkdas]

"Jugaad" Really?

Leave training, just enlighten us about how many times have you visited SFTS/NSWTTC/GRTC? And what you found there that was so bad that you have to call em 'Jugaad'?

Please, explain to me how can a special forces unit provide quality training within just 150 acres(NSWTTC) OR 1500 acres (SFTS Bakloh) or >50 acres (INS KARNA). When other foreign special forces required more than 8000 acres of land for providing good training on basic special operations!!????
Please, explain to me if indian training centers are so good then why indian special forces soldiers who visited KASOTC were so impressed by training infrastructure there and took their time there more as learning new things than winning the competition they gone there to participate!!!??

Let me ask you something based on open source information, how could you even consider indian SF training as world class when Indians SF only got their 1st modular CQB training center in 2017, 1st indoor firing range in late 2018, 3rd generation NVG after 2015(till now it's not standard issued)!!???? Meantime their western counterparts had all these since 1980!!?? And it takes decades to develop tactics on new things.
Tell why indian SFTS don't have sniper firing range of more than 1500m!? (There is no concept of firing beyond 1500m in India and the current range got only after 2019, pakis developed a world class sniper training school in 2015, tho they got good sniper training from foreign countries since 2008). And Marcos doesn't even have a good sniper firing range of more than 1000m.
There is no concept of tactical driving among indian special forces (Marcos do get some from civilian off road driving teams on off road driving, noting beyond that, concept of TD doesn't exists in para SF's training syllabus, they don't have a training area for it).

Other than Garuds commandos training centre there are no runways in any of special forces training centers in India.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOW MANY SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS ACTUALLY GET THE CHANCE TO GET TRAINED AT SFTS !!??

I can go on about things which para SF doesn't even heard about but other morden SF have. But my argument with you doesn't change anything untill indian special forces decide to change themselves.

 

[Airborne22]

@Airborne22 @Noob @Jedi Operator which two former Airborne units you guyz think deserved the SF conversion, post July 2022?

My take:-

5 and 6 PARA Airborne deserved conversion the most!

5 PARA(Airborne) now 5 PARA SF, one of my favourite OG unit. Already had several battle and theatre honors, operated like a Cdo unit despite being an airborne infantry during the wars of 1971 and 1999.
Post conversion, its the best in CFF and other skills among the other erstwhile Airborne units.

6 PARA(Airborne) now 6 PARA SF, my second most favourite OG unit. Performed extremely well during the wars of 1971 and 1999 under the aegis of 50th PARA(I) Brigade. Spearheaded the Op Cactus in Maldives with 3&7 PARA as the body/reserve. One of the most successful units in CI-CT and HAW, conversion was delayed two decades but they deserved to be converted.

i am not an expart brother but 7 because they looked cool enough to be sf

 

[Airborne22]

Please, explain to me how can a special forces unit provide quality training within just 150 acres(NSWTTC) OR 1500 acres (SFTS Bakloh) or >50 acres (INS KARNA). When other foreign special forces required more than 8000 acres of land for providing good training on basic special operations!!????
Please, explain to me if indian training centers are so good then why indian special forces soldiers who visited KASOTC were so impressed by training infrastructure there and took their time there more as learning new things than winning the competition they gone there to participate!!!??

Let me ask you something based on open source information, how could you even consider indian SF training as world class when Indians SF only got their 1st modular CQB training center in 2017, 1st indoor firing range in late 2018, 3rd generation NVG after 2015(till now it's not standard issued)!!???? Meantime their western counterparts had all these since 1980!!?? And it takes decades to develop tactics on new things.
Tell why indian SFTS don't have sniper firing range of more than 1500m!? (There is no concept of firing beyond 1500m in India and the current range got only after 2019, pakis developed a world class sniper training school in 2015, tho they got good sniper training from foreign countries since 2008). And Marcos doesn't even have a good sniper firing range of more than 1000m.
There is no concept of tactical driving among indian special forces (Marcos do get some from civilian off road driving teams on off road driving, noting beyond that, concept of TD doesn't exists in para SF's training syllabus, they don't have a training area for it).

Other than Garuds commandos training centre there are no runways in any of special forces training centers in India.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOW MANY SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS ACTUALLY GET THE CHANCE TO GET TRAINED AT SFTS !!??

I can go on about things which para SF doesn't even heard about but other morden SF have. But my argument with you doesn't change anything untill indian special forces decide to change themselves.

Dam Neck · Virginia Beach, Virginia

maps.app.goo.gl

seal team 6 base as per the books. Run your analysis.exe on it, is it at par standard ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I want to genuinely ask something i have no idea about…

How is KASOTC Jordan compared to Manesar NSG?

Since both are similar facilities who has the edge and why?

Can someone write in detail about what one has that other doesnt?

 

[TAVOUR 21]

Spoiler: para sf bino nvg (godzilla)

 

[Screambowl]

"Jugaad" Really?

Leave training, just enlighten us about how many times have you visited SFTS/NSWTTC/GRTC? And what you found there that was so bad that you have to call em 'Jugaad'?

It's impossible to provide full spectrum training at single place.
What Marcos/para SF/Garuds need is KASOTC like training school. Not some jugad set up like SFTS in Bakloh or in nahan or NSWTTC in Goa or INS Karna.

When INSAS was being equipped the soldiers were trained to adapt the equipment. But during actual battle, especially high altitude area in Kargil soldiers observed that fire never fell on the target point. Later ARDE said it was designed to injure the enemy not kill it to so that their buddies get busy evacuating them.

After some time another report came that in high altitude area the aim has to be adjusted because lower the air density higher the speed of bullet and thus it will above the target compared to sea level.

 

[Airborne22]

Dam Neck · Virginia Beach, Virginia

maps.app.goo.gl

seal team 6 base as per the books. Run your analysis.exe on it, is it at par standard ?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/5...3m3!8m2!3d52.0872222!4d-2.7938889?source=lnms

Hereford base, special air service. Grand daddy of all modern SF units

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Please, explain to me how can a special forces unit provide quality training within just 150 acres(NSWTTC) OR 1500 acres (SFTS Bakloh) or >50 acres (INS KARNA). When other foreign special forces required more than 8000 acres of land for providing good training on basic special operations!!????
Please, explain to me if indian training centers are so good then why indian special forces soldiers who visited KASOTC were so impressed by training infrastructure there and took their time there more as learning new things than winning the competition they gone there to participate!!!??

Let me ask you something based on open source information, how could you even consider indian SF training as world class when Indians SF only got their 1st modular CQB training center in 2017, 1st indoor firing range in late 2018, 3rd generation NVG after 2015(till now it's not standard issued)!!???? Meantime their western counterparts had all these since 1980!!?? And it takes decades to develop tactics on new things.
Tell why indian SFTS don't have sniper firing range of more than 1500m!? (There is no concept of firing beyond 1500m in India and the current range got only after 2019, pakis developed a world class sniper training school in 2015, tho they got good sniper training from foreign countries since 2008). And Marcos doesn't even have a good sniper firing range of more than 1000m.
There is no concept of tactical driving among indian special forces (Marcos do get some from civilian off road driving teams on off road driving, noting beyond that, concept of TD doesn't exists in para SF's training syllabus, they don't have a training area for it).

Other than Garuds commandos training centre there are no runways in any of special forces training centers in India.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOW MANY SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS ACTUALLY GET THE CHANCE TO GET TRAINED AT SFTS !!??

I can go on about things which para SF doesn't even heard about but other morden SF have. But my argument with you doesn't change anything untill indian special forces decide to change themselves.

Good post but i think you are connecting the dots in the Indian context wrongly.

In India these schools are not the only facilities that the SF uses.

It is standard for the SF to go to schools like HAWS,Commando school,Sniper course at Mhow,CIJWS,CBS,PTC,Diving school etc.

So in the Indian context the acres of land is irrelevant coz schools are spread across India.

Now coming to the point of infrastructure you are totally right…We have to do a lot of catching up.

Like you said we have no runways to train on and just a Antique aircraft i think its Airbus 300 or old Airbus 320 which is not even used by airlines…

Concept of long range sniping is not there and new snipers have started coming now…Pakis were and are better in sniping than us ask any officer or jawan deployed at LOC.

Col Shivendra was mentioning that goras have better indoor infra than us so thats that and you are right.

 

[Airborne22]

So in the Indian context the acres of land is irrelevant coz schools are spread across India

It's a universal concept except for a few countries

 

[Gessler]

Hw is using a rope as a sling, they need better slings.

Not as a sling - he's got the sling around his neck, it's a proper one.

The 'rope' is being used as a retention strap to keep the weapon from flopping around, it won't be used in combat, only the sling will.

But yeah, there's better ways for weapon retention if you want to go there:

I see it more as an admin/presentation issue rather than a tactical one.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Not as a sling - he's got the sling around his neck, it's a proper one.

The 'rope' is being used as a retention strap to keep the weapon from flopping around, it won't be used in combat, only the sling will.

But yeah, there's better ways for weapon retention if you want to go there:

I see it more as an admin/presentation issue rather than a tactical one.

Oh yeah my bad they do have slings, so whats your opinion on their holsters?

 

[TAVOUR 21]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/platypus_10/status/1865297255084757240?s=46

 

[Noob]

View: https://x.com/platypus_10/status/1865297255084757240?s=46

Vajra Prahar last year