LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Azaad]

83+97 aka 180 Tejas mk1a can be delivered in just 6-7 yrs with production rate of 24-28 jets/year.....

By 2031-32 all 180 Tejas can be delivered and HAL can get production lines ready for MK2....

HAL is just doing Final assembly of individual parts of MK1A being made by Pvt Sector....
View attachment 26070

Major road block here is production rate of F404 engine......Which can't be resolved easily

You can have 69 different final assembly lines by pvt sector and rollout airframes without engines tabi bhi Maaza nahi aaayega .......


Only solution to our problem is mating Tejas MK1A & Kaveri "with what ever Thrust it produces be it 70-75 Kn"....


So we will atleast have Tejas which is underperforming Rather than empty HAS in air bases....something is better than nothing....


We are in this worse situation bcoz of BSDK's who stopped Funding of KAVERI.....


Imagine having Kaveri producing 85 Kn ready by now....


Even after all this shit IAF is not willing to give a single Tejas MK1A to GTRE for flying Kaveri


Our current air thief is a big & cunning at same time and he is on mission to give our balls to americucks or ruskies....bcoz he knows MRFA's death is near bcoz of Tejas mk2


5 different products from 5 different places saaar.......
Low hanging fruits saar.....
Technology delayed is Technology denied saaar.....

That clown should be removed asap....

IMO RKS sir is Billion times better than current air chief......

So you're actually expecting HAL in 2030 to churn out 28 Mk-1a of the second tranche of 97 nos Mk-1a thru 3 existing lines ( 2 in HAL Bangalore & 1 in HAL Ojhar) plus 108 odd Mk-2 by 2035.

If you're going to come up with HAL can set up more lines, I hope you aren't thinking of this


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/mvy-Gd9KEfU?si=1rana6lhd5ZiZQLd

For even these lines have certain pre requisites like manpower hiring , training, cost of land to set up the assembly line, tools - jigs, assembly fixtures et al, not to mention the fact of what are you going to do with these surplus workers once full production is achieved.

Tell me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run without telling me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run .

 

[INVADER]

So you're actually expecting HAL in 2030 to churn out 28 Mk-1a of the second tranche of 97 nos Mk-1a thru 3 existing lines ( 2 in HAL Bangalore & 1 in HAL Ojhar) plus 108 odd Mk-2 by 2035.

If you're going to come up with HAL can set up more lines, I hope you aren't thinking of this


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/mvy-Gd9KEfU?si=1rana6lhd5ZiZQLd

For even these lines have certain pre requisites like manpower hiring , training, cost of land to set up the assembly line, tools - jigs, assembly fixtures et al, not to mention the fact of what are you going to do with these surplus workers once full production is achieved.

Tell me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run without telling me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run .

Each production line will have capacity to rollout 8 jets/year

2 x production lines in HAL , Bengaluru
1 x Production line in HAL , Nashik
3 production lines are currently present so 3 x 8 = 24 jets per year is possible


FYI , 4th tejas production line is being planned/under discussion.....so 32 jets/year too is possible if GE delivers 32 F404 per year......



View: https://youtu.be/90RB188PSAY?si=FimNwYZgHd0n7-bZ



Listen to first 40 seconds of this video

View: https://youtu.be/fXvQaWmyoRI?si=Eou4hv3azTR1A2xp



HAL has ability to produce 30 jet engines per year.....so Tejas MK2 might have production rate of 32 jets per year.......Yes producing AL31 & F414 will be different but the same work force would be made to adapt and new jet engine components manufacturing machines will be inducted.....



Ability to produce 30 jet engine per year and 4 x Assemble lines with production rate of 32 jets per year I want you to connect the dots....IMO Tejas mk2 production would start by 2032 with low initial production and gradually increasing production rate to 32 jets/year.....so by 2038 all 180 Tejas MK 2 would be delivered.....



So inshort you have infrastructure to produce 32 jet per year and skilled work force to Assemble 30 jets a year......when trying to add Additional production line all Jigs , skilled work force would be planned in advance


Only issue here is AMCA production thats why MOD wasted 3 years for SPV & Private production line

 

[Azaad]

Each production line will have capacity to rollout 8 jets/year

2 x production lines in HAL , Bengaluru
1 x Production line in HAL , Nashik
3 production lines are currently present so 3 x 8 = 24 jets per year is possible

FYI , 4th tejas production line is being planned/under discussion.....so 32 jets/year too is possible if GE delivers 32 F404 per year......

All that depends on how many TFs GE can supply in a FY ? Otherwise anything above 20 is unproductive since GE has committed to delivering 20 nos TFs from 2027-28.

View: https://youtu.be/90RB188PSAY?si=FimNwYZgHd0n7-bZ



Listen to first 40 seconds of this video

View: https://youtu.be/fXvQaWmyoRI?si=Eou4hv3azTR1A2xp


View attachment 26076
HAL has ability to produce 30 jet engines per year.....so Tejas MK2 might have production rate of 32 jets per year.......Yes producing AL31 & F414 will be different but the same work force would be made to adapt and new jet engine components manufacturing machines will be inducted.....

First of all AL-31 is mfgd at HAL Koraput whereas this proposed JV between HAL & GE is slated to come up in Bangalore , IIRC. For them to get to even 20 nos TFs p.a will take 3 years for that's how long production of complex machines takes to stabilize.

What this means is if HAL signs the agreement with GE this FY , the factory would be ready by 2028 which means they'd be in a position to churn out 20 nos TFs per annum from 2031. Can production be bumped up ? Sure , but it'd be AFTER 2032

Ability to produce 30 jet engine per year and 4 x Assemble lines with production rate of 32 jets per year I want you to connect the dots....IMO Tejas mk2 production would start by 2032 with low initial production and gradually increasing production rate to 32 jets/year.....so by 2038 all 180 Tejas MK 2 would be delivered.....

Why don't you connect the dots & tell us how do you plan to mfg 108 nos Mk-2 ( likely more ) + 97 nos Mk-1a = 205 nos @ 30 FAs per annum from 4 assembly lines in 5 years i.e - between 2030-35 .

Do remember those dates are sacrosanct given the perilous condition of the Mirage 2000s , Jaguars & MiG-29s - most of which will be ~ 45 years old likely older in some cases by 2035.

So inshort you have infrastructure to produce 32 jet per year and skilled work force to Assemble 30 jets a year......when trying to add Additional production line all Jigs , skilled work force would be planned in advance


Only issue here is AMCA production thats why MOD wasted 3 years for SPV & Private production line

 

[SKC]

Each production line will have capacity to rollout 8 jets/year

2 x production lines in HAL , Bengaluru
1 x Production line in HAL , Nashik
3 production lines are currently present so 3 x 8 = 24 jets per year is possible


FYI , 4th tejas production line is being planned/under discussion.....so 32 jets/year too is possible if GE delivers 32 F404 per year......



View: https://youtu.be/90RB188PSAY?si=FimNwYZgHd0n7-bZ



Listen to first 40 seconds of this video

View: https://youtu.be/fXvQaWmyoRI?si=Eou4hv3azTR1A2xp


View attachment 26076
HAL has ability to produce 30 jet engines per year.....so Tejas MK2 might have production rate of 32 jets per year.......Yes producing AL31 & F414 will be different but the same work force would be made to adapt and new jet engine components manufacturing machines will be inducted.....



Ability to produce 30 jet engine per year and 4 x Assemble lines with production rate of 32 jets per year I want you to connect the dots....IMO Tejas mk2 production would start by 2032 with low initial production and gradually increasing production rate to 32 jets/year.....so by 2038 all 180 Tejas MK 2 would be delivered.....



So inshort you have infrastructure to produce 32 jet per year and skilled work force to Assemble 30 jets a year......when trying to add Additional production line all Jigs , skilled work force would be planned in advance


Only issue here is AMCA production thats why MOD wasted 3 years for SPV & Private production line

Pls introduce yourself in New Members thread!

 

[Spitfire IX]

Ah , so that was what the entire game plan was all about ! The ACM's outburst caught on camera was a carefully crafted ploy to prepare the grounds for the second tranche of the 97 Mk-1a's to either be distributed between HAL & the Pvt Sector or be exclusively handed over to the Pvt Sector.

Makes sense IMHO. There's no way HAL can sustain final assembly lines for 73 Mk-1a , 97 Mk-1a & 108 Mk-2 , all to be delivered by 2035. Do remember this isn't considering exports. Then there're the AMCA Mk-1 & TEDBF too.

I think that anything that can put pressure on HAL to speed up production in the short term is useful.

Longer term, handing over production to a private company would end HAL's monopoly. A good thing to me.

Regarding exports, the best time to seek these was during the renewal cycle for MiG-21/Mirage roughly 2000-2020. Potential buyers have mostly bought by now.

Any news on interest from Brazil? Unfortunately the delay in MTA may mean any window for a Mk1A/C-390 deal may close before India is in a position to decide on MTA - and with it, the chance of exporting Mk1A to Brazil.

 

[Nutcracker]

TBH I don't see 97 LCA ordersize as something set on stone. MoD / IAF will watch MK2 development and align the MK1A's ordersize to match when MK2 becomes production ready.

 

[Azaad]

TBH I don't see 97 LCA ordersize as something set on stone. MoD / IAF will watch MK2 development and align the MK1A's ordersize to match when MK2 becomes production ready.

I don't think IAF has the luxury of waiting that long. The first shots have been fired by the ACM - IAF in Aero India 25.

What you'd see is the formation of a committee to look into HAL's ability to deliver the additional 97 nos ? We've a fair idea how they'd conclude.

Then we'd have the MoD come up with an EoI for a FAL of the Mk-1a in the Pvt Sector followed by inspection of facilities , awarding of certificate pre qualifying any one bidder for said work & then they'd be issued the usual tender to fill in for the assembly of the Mk-1a , negotiations etc .

You may also see competition with HAL for once the proposal of a Pvt Sector for a FAL of Mk-1a crops up , the opposition will seize the opportunity to put pressure on the GoI to also issue a tender to HAL for the said work which would defeat the very purpose of establishing a second assembly line in the Pvt Sector. However the latter mustn't succumb to it else the entire exercise will go down the drain.

The only issue is this exercise shouldn't take more than a year or two for the said party has to also undertake setting up of facilities for such work which'd take at least 2 years & place orders for these sub systems from vendors in India & abroad after negotiations , otherwise the entire exercise will be fruitless which in turn means all these exercises must be concluded by this time 2027.

The IAF absolutely MUST induct the first of the 97 Mk-1a's alongside the LRIP versions of the Mk-2 which is in 2029 .

As you can see all this is easier said than done.

 

[RocketMan]

Nothing will improve with committees and conferences. It is Babu Raj which need to be ended. At the moment the DRDO and HAL etc. are considered as extension of government department, where service rule of no discipline, accountability or responsibility prevail. Nobody is responsible for anything. Just pass the buck is the motivation. Hence which committee will improve …… probably none.

India can make all kinds of missiles & even SSBNs & we can't reorganize our manufacturing to mass produce a puny fighter jet ? Babudumbs need to be given 100 lashes as per Sharia !

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

MoD babus cannot leach money off public infrastructure projects!

Small defense parts supplier used to tell me of how difficult it can get to grease all moving parts. Even the last guy taking physical delivery at maintenance depot will be brutal. Guy would say he can count only 19 parts on the table even though 20 were neatly arranged and clearly visible as required by the contract.

They cannot do this to a PSU employee, which is why they want to interface with Pvt. sector who can smoothly route back the extra cream added into the contract (if import pipeline is strangled off)

But we can't have the cake and eat it too isn't it. Look at USA, everything is inflated. Private sector guarantees innovation, quality and assured deliveries and if 10% is eaten, then it's better than DPSUs.