LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Blademaster]

LCA Tejas MK1A test fired Astra MK1.


View: https://x.com/Kuntal__biswas/status/1892454001955733802

Looks too fake to be real.

 

[NerVik]

Looks too fake to be real.

For me it looks too real to be real.

 

[Anants]

@Anants @Nutcracker thanks.

I was just watching an interview with the GTRE director (at Aero. India. I think.) Talking of Kaveri, he said USD $250 million had been spent on it. That is less than USD $20 million a year. Did India not realise that with such a miniscule investment each year it would take forever to make a working turbofan? How could anyone be so stupid as to think there was a reasonably good chance of developing an engine in time for Tejas?

And whats even more interesting is they still managed to build prototype good enough to clear for flight tests

 

[Asmodeus]

@Anants @Nutcracker thanks.

I was just watching an interview with the GTRE director (at Aero. India. I think.) Talking of Kaveri, he said USD $250 million had been spent on it. That is less than USD $20 million a year. Did India not realise that with such a miniscule investment each year it would take forever to make a working turbofan? How could anyone be so stupid as to think there was a reasonably good chance of developing an engine in time for Tejas?

Our BABUS knew this from 20 years ago, yet like a true enlightened monk they just observe and do not take any action

 

[Kattar]

I find it difficult to keep up, given all the different reports emanating from India that quote 'informed anonymous sources'. What is the current date reported by an identified, credible source for delivery of the first F404-IN20?

Did I read somewhere that the first 2 engines are undergoing pre-delivery tests?

I ask because I am curious - along with many others - as to when IAF will receive its first Mk1A.

PS A question about 'Indian English', please: does saying "It will arrive by 2030" mean "It will arrive before 2030" or does it mean "It will arrive before or during 2030."? For people using the vernacular used in England (eg me), it means "It will arrive before 2030".

GE Engines will be held back as much as possible and delivered piece-meal by US Administration until they are assured of a very large $$$ contract for F35 / F-21 / Stryker / Predators / KC-130 or P8Is

They are plainly pissed off that Hafta we pay to their MIL-Industrial complex is not growing proportionate to our economic growth

GE supply chain issues will entirely disappear into thin air as soon as we agree to sign big fat cheques for one or more of their gold plated trinkets

 

[silentassassin265]

GE Engines will be held back as much as possible and delivered piece-meal by US Administration until they are assured of a very large $$$ contract for F35 / F-21 / Stryker / Predators / KC-130 or P8Is

They are plainly pissed off that Hafta we pay to their MIL-Industrial complex is not growing proportionate to our economic growth

GE supply chain issues will entirely disappear into thin air as soon as we agree to sign big fat cheques for one or more of their gold plated trinkets

They are supposed to deliver 2 next month

 

[vampyrbladez]

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

The defence ministry has formed a committee led by Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh to enhance production of indigenous LCA jets and increase private sector involvement. Currently, HAL manufactures the jets, but delays have occurred due to supply issues. Private companies may be involved in setting up new production lines to fulfill a potential order for 97 additional jets.

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

The defence ministry has formed a committee led by Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh to enhance production of indigenous LCA jets and increase private sector involvement. Currently, HAL manufactures the jets, but delays have occurred due to supply issues. Private companies may be involved in...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Migflug]

After IAF Chief's Meltdown, MoD To Fasttrack Tejas - Livefist

Two weeks after a public rebuke of HAL by the Indian Air Force chief that went viral both online as well as in India's security establishment, the Ministry of Defence has reportedly set up a top-level committee to rapidly recommend a formula by which deliveries of 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters…

www.livefistdefence.com

Ministry of Defence has reportedly set up a top-level committee to rapidly recommend a formula by which deliveries of 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters can be speeded up, streamlined. The focus of this formula is expected to be getting HAL to yield some of its workshare to private sector companies that currently supply HAL with assembled fuselage parts of the Tejas airframe, but could potentially be the operators of a full separate production line going forward.

As things stand, a handful of private sector companies already build fuselage assemblies for HAL, including VEM Technologies, L&T, Tata and Dynamatics. It is likely that one of these companies will get to operate a full separate Tejas Mk1A production line — a historic first in the country.

 

[Kattar]

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

The defence ministry has formed a committee led by Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh to enhance production of indigenous LCA jets and increase private sector involvement. Currently, HAL manufactures the jets, but delays have occurred due to supply issues. Private companies may be involved in...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

This is Plan-B if AatmaNirbhar man is firm on only spending in Rupees. Maybe the Chief's natak at HAL of LCA MK1A being only software updates didn't cut much ice with Top Manaav.

So KadiNindha & Babus are rushing to get Private sector involved in the inevitable mass production of LCA series, using whom they can route back 20-25% for their Kith & Kin funds

Expect to hear cost overruns on LCA programs in next couple of years to accommodate their slush funds

Still, this is much better than importing gold-plated hotties

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

This is Plan-B if AatmaNirbhar man is firm on only spending in Rupees. Maybe the Chief's natak at HAL of LCA MK1A being only software updates didn't cut much ice with Top Manaav.

So KadiNindha & Babus are rushing to get Private sector involved in the inevitable mass production of LCA series, using whom they can route back 20-25% for their Kith & Kin funds

Expect to hear cost overruns on LCA programs in next couple of years to accommodate their slush funds

Still, this is much better than importing gold-plated hotties

I really don't think puny 5 to 6 Billion from this programs can accommodate their slush funds. There are massive infra projects often 10 times bigger from where they can easily take.

 

[Spitfire IX]

As things stand, a handful of private sector companies already build fuselage assemblies for HAL, including VEM Technologies, L&T, Tata and Dynamatics. It is likely that one of these companies will get to operate a full separate Tejas Mk1A production line — a historic first in the country.

Time for a historic first or two!

Would be great to have a dynamic company assembling Tejas.

 

[Hari Sud]

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

Defence ministry forms high-level panel to boost indigenous light fighter jet production

The defence ministry has formed a committee led by Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh to enhance production of indigenous LCA jets and increase private sector involvement. Currently, HAL manufactures the jets, but delays have occurred due to supply issues. Private companies may be involved in...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Nothing will improve with committees and conferences. It is Babu Raj which need to be ended. At the moment the DRDO and HAL etc. are considered as extension of government department, where service rule of no discipline, accountability or responsibility prevail. Nobody is responsible for anything. Just pass the buck is the motivation. Hence which committee will improve …… probably none.

 

[SKC]

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1894010243262099602

 

[Kattar]

I really don't think puny 5 to 6 Billion from this programs can accommodate their slush funds. There are massive infra projects often 10 times bigger from where they can easily take.

MoD babus cannot leach money off public infrastructure projects!

Small defense parts supplier used to tell me of how difficult it can get to grease all moving parts. Even the last guy taking physical delivery at maintenance depot will be brutal. Guy would say he can count only 19 parts on the table even though 20 were neatly arranged and clearly visible as required by the contract.

They cannot do this to a PSU employee, which is why they want to interface with Pvt. sector who can smoothly route back the extra cream added into the contract (if import pipeline is strangled off)

 

[Azaad]

After IAF Chief's Meltdown, MoD To Fasttrack Tejas - Livefist

Two weeks after a public rebuke of HAL by the Indian Air Force chief that went viral both online as well as in India's security establishment, the Ministry of Defence has reportedly set up a top-level committee to rapidly recommend a formula by which deliveries of 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters…

www.livefistdefence.com

Ministry of Defence has reportedly set up a top-level committee to rapidly recommend a formula by which deliveries of 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters can be speeded up, streamlined. The focus of this formula is expected to be getting HAL to yield some of its workshare to private sector companies that currently supply HAL with assembled fuselage parts of the Tejas airframe, but could potentially be the operators of a full separate production line going forward.

As things stand, a handful of private sector companies already build fuselage assemblies for HAL, including VEM Technologies, L&T, Tata and Dynamatics. It is likely that one of these companies will get to operate a full separate Tejas Mk1A production line — a historic first in the country.

Ah , so that was what the entire game plan was all about ! The ACM's outburst caught on camera was a carefully crafted ploy to prepare the grounds for the second tranche of the 97 Mk-1a's to either be distributed between HAL & the Pvt Sector or be exclusively handed over to the Pvt Sector.

Makes sense IMHO. There's no way HAL can sustain final assembly lines for 73 Mk-1a , 97 Mk-1a & 108 Mk-2 , all to be delivered by 2035. Do remember this isn't considering exports. Then there're the AMCA Mk-1 & TEDBF too.

 

[AbRaj]

Time for a historic first or two!

Would be great to have a dynamic company assembling Tejas.

PSUs (like HAL,BHEL,NTPC,CIL,SAIL)of India will fight tooth and nail for this. Project (mis)management is their bread and butter. Everything else, which requires actual hard work, is outsourced to Pvt. firms already.
They will go defunct( like BSNL,HMT, OFB etc) if their monopoly will be broken.

 

[INVADER]

Ah , so that was what the entire game plan was all about ! The ACM's outburst caught on camera was a carefully crafted ploy to prepare the grounds for the second tranche of the 97 Mk-1a's to either be distributed between HAL & the Pvt Sector or be exclusively handed over to the Pvt Sector.

Makes sense IMHO. There's no way HAL can sustain final assembly lines for 73 Mk-1a , 97 Mk-1a & 108 Mk-2 , all to be delivered by 2035. Do remember this isn't considering exports. Then there're the AMCA Mk-1 & TEDBF too.

83+97 aka 180 Tejas mk1a can be delivered in just 6-7 yrs with production rate of 24-28 jets/year.....

By 2031-32 all 180 Tejas can be delivered and HAL can get production lines ready for MK2....

HAL is just doing Final assembly of individual parts of MK1A being made by Pvt Sector....


Major road block here is production rate of F404 engine......Which can't be resolved easily

You can have 69 different final assembly lines by pvt sector and rollout airframes without engines tabi bhi Maaza nahi aaayega .......


Only solution to our problem is mating Tejas MK1A & Kaveri "with what ever Thrust it produces be it 70-75 Kn"....


So we will atleast have Tejas which is underperforming Rather than empty HAS in air bases....something is better than nothing....


We are in this worse situation bcoz of BSDK's who stopped Funding of KAVERI.....


Imagine having Kaveri producing 85 Kn ready by now....


Even after all this shit IAF is not willing to give a single Tejas MK1A to GTRE for flying Kaveri


Our current air thief is a big & cunning at same time and he is on mission to give our balls to americucks or ruskies....bcoz he knows MRFA's death is near bcoz of Tejas mk2


5 different products from 5 different places saaar.......
Low hanging fruits saar.....
Technology delayed is Technology denied saaar.....
Low production rate saaaaar....

 

[Azaad]

83+97 aka 180 Tejas mk1a can be delivered in just 6-7 yrs with production rate of 24-28 jets/year.....

By 2031-32 all 180 Tejas can be delivered and HAL can get production lines ready for MK2....

HAL is just doing Final assembly of individual parts of MK1A being made by Pvt Sector....
View attachment 26070

Major road block here is production rate of F404 engine......Which can't be resolved easily

You can have 69 different final assembly lines by pvt sector and rollout airframes without engines tabi bhi Maaza nahi aaayega .......


Only solution to our problem is mating Tejas MK1A & Kaveri "with what ever Thrust it produces be it 70-75 Kn"....


So we will atleast have Tejas which is underperforming Rather than empty HAS in air bases....something is better than nothing....


We are in this worse situation bcoz of BSDK's who stopped Funding of KAVERI.....


Imagine having Kaveri producing 85 Kn ready by now....


Even after all this shit IAF is not willing to give a single Tejas MK1A to GTRE for flying Kaveri


Our current air thief is a big & cunning at same time and he is on mission to give our balls to americucks or ruskies....bcoz he knows MRFA's death is near bcoz of Tejas mk2


5 different products from 5 different places saaar.......
Low hanging fruits saar.....
Technology delayed is Technology denied saaar.....

That clown should be removed asap....

IMO RKS sir is Billion times better than current air chief......

So you're actually expecting HAL in 2030 to churn out 28 Mk-1a of the second tranche of 97 nos Mk-1a thru 3 existing lines ( 2 in HAL Bangalore & 1 in HAL Ojhar) plus 108 odd Mk-2 by 2035.

If you're going to come up with HAL can set up more lines, I hope you aren't thinking of this


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/mvy-Gd9KEfU?si=1rana6lhd5ZiZQLd

For even these lines have certain pre requisites like manpower hiring , training, cost of land to set up the assembly line, tools - jigs, assembly fixtures et al, not to mention the fact of what are you going to do with these surplus workers once full production is achieved.

Tell me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run without telling me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run .

 

[INVADER]

So you're actually expecting HAL in 2030 to churn out 28 Mk-1a of the second tranche of 97 nos Mk-1a thru 3 existing lines ( 2 in HAL Bangalore & 1 in HAL Ojhar) plus 108 odd Mk-2 by 2035.

If you're going to come up with HAL can set up more lines, I hope you aren't thinking of this


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/mvy-Gd9KEfU?si=1rana6lhd5ZiZQLd

For even these lines have certain pre requisites like manpower hiring , training, cost of land to set up the assembly line, tools - jigs, assembly fixtures et al, not to mention the fact of what are you going to do with these surplus workers once full production is achieved.

Tell me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run without telling me you've ABSOLUTELY zero experience in how a factory leave aside how an organization is run .

Each production line will have capacity to rollout 8 jets/year

2 x production lines in HAL , Bengaluru
1 x Production line in HAL , Nashik
3 production lines are currently present so 3 x 8 = 24 jets per year is possible


FYI , 4th tejas production line is being planned/under discussion.....so 32 jets/year too is possible if GE delivers 32 F404 per year......



View: https://youtu.be/90RB188PSAY?si=FimNwYZgHd0n7-bZ



Listen to first 40 seconds of this video

View: https://youtu.be/fXvQaWmyoRI?si=Eou4hv3azTR1A2xp



HAL has ability to produce 30 jet engines per year.....so Tejas MK2 might have production rate of 32 jets per year.......Yes producing AL31 & F414 will be different but the same work force would be made to adapt and new jet engine components manufacturing machines will be inducted.....



Ability to produce 30 jet engine per year and 4 x Assemble lines with production rate of 32 jets per year I want you to connect the dots....IMO Tejas mk2 production would start by 2032 with low initial production and gradually increasing production rate to 32 jets/year.....so by 2038 all 180 Tejas MK 2 would be delivered.....



So inshort you have infrastructure to produce 32 jet per year and skilled work force to Assemble 30 jets a year......when trying to add Additional production line all Jigs , skilled work force would be planned in advance


Only issue here is AMCA production thats why MOD wasted 3 years for SPV & Private production line

 

[Azaad]

Each production line will have capacity to rollout 8 jets/year

2 x production lines in HAL , Bengaluru
1 x Production line in HAL , Nashik
3 production lines are currently present so 3 x 8 = 24 jets per year is possible

FYI , 4th tejas production line is being planned/under discussion.....so 32 jets/year too is possible if GE delivers 32 F404 per year......

All that depends on how many TFs GE can supply in a FY ? Otherwise anything above 20 is unproductive since GE has committed to delivering 20 nos TFs from 2027-28.

View: https://youtu.be/90RB188PSAY?si=FimNwYZgHd0n7-bZ



Listen to first 40 seconds of this video

View: https://youtu.be/fXvQaWmyoRI?si=Eou4hv3azTR1A2xp


View attachment 26076
HAL has ability to produce 30 jet engines per year.....so Tejas MK2 might have production rate of 32 jets per year.......Yes producing AL31 & F414 will be different but the same work force would be made to adapt and new jet engine components manufacturing machines will be inducted.....

First of all AL-31 is mfgd at HAL Koraput whereas this proposed JV between HAL & GE is slated to come up in Bangalore , IIRC. For them to get to even 20 nos TFs p.a will take 3 years for that's how long production of complex machines takes to stabilize.

What this means is if HAL signs the agreement with GE this FY , the factory would be ready by 2028 which means they'd be in a position to churn out 20 nos TFs per annum from 2031. Can production be bumped up ? Sure , but it'd be AFTER 2032

Ability to produce 30 jet engine per year and 4 x Assemble lines with production rate of 32 jets per year I want you to connect the dots....IMO Tejas mk2 production would start by 2032 with low initial production and gradually increasing production rate to 32 jets/year.....so by 2038 all 180 Tejas MK 2 would be delivered.....

Why don't you connect the dots & tell us how do you plan to mfg 108 nos Mk-2 ( likely more ) + 97 nos Mk-1a = 205 nos @ 30 FAs per annum from 4 assembly lines in 5 years i.e - between 2030-35 .

Do remember those dates are sacrosanct given the perilous condition of the Mirage 2000s , Jaguars & MiG-29s - most of which will be ~ 45 years old likely older in some cases by 2035.

So inshort you have infrastructure to produce 32 jet per year and skilled work force to Assemble 30 jets a year......when trying to add Additional production line all Jigs , skilled work force would be planned in advance


Only issue here is AMCA production thats why MOD wasted 3 years for SPV & Private production line