AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (17 Viewers)

But America will create supply chain issue for Tejas and AMCA project in retaliation.
Which in turn will only result in the redesigning of the Tejas Mk2 to fly with an AL-41. Delay AMCA further, and possibly even scrap the MK1 medium design (in case the Safran-GTRE JV doesn't work out); opting for a larger heavier aircraft with twin AL-41s/derivatives. Americans enacting CAASTA only forces our hands and sours whatever good will was built up in the last 20 ish years. It'll delay our programs but Americans themselves will get a fat L in return.​
 
As Bob lazar said, USA got UFOs🛸 at AREA-51 & S-4, helped by aliens.:alienn:👽👾
:doh::flypig::smash:
They'll create this:

View attachment 40651

BTW, i suspect that F-47 might look partially similar to this, minus the gravity engine ofcouse.
the wing tip looks like qaher 313, hence proved iranian supremacy, iranian dalals you were right
 
Jut went through this video


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4FJ25vNCug&t=1735s

If someone like Vishnu Som is sounding the alarm, it means we are in very serious trouble.

Losing our technical edge to Pakistan would severely compromise our national security, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

The problem is further compounded by India’s inability to procure 5th-generation fighters from abroad. The US will not supply the F-35 until India abandons the S-400, and Russia’s production capacity is hampered due to the Ukraine war. Neither is in a position to provide India with fighters on an urgent basis.

Furthermore, Vishnu Som warns that the AMCA, expected in 2035, should meet the technical specifications of 2035, not 2025. In cricketing terms, achieving this is equivalent to a newcomer scoring a century on their debut.


Vishnu Som is an imported maal dalal, he is shilling for F-35.
Most of your name-brand defense patrakars do dalali.

Our only option is to push forth AMCA whatever happens but "today is not an era of war" govt isn't interested in it.

We will only wake up when the Chinese defeat us, just like 62, lets hope there aren't any terrorial losses.
 
Which in turn will only result in the redesigning of the Tejas Mk2 to fly with an AL-41. Delay AMCA further, and possibly even scrap the MK1 medium design (in case the Safran-GTRE JV doesn't work out); opting for a larger heavier aircraft with twin AL-41s/derivatives. Americans enacting CAASTA only forces our hands and sours whatever good will was built up in the last 20 ish years. It'll delay our programs but Americans themselves will get a fat L in return.​

Saar, what makes you so optimistic?
When Americans were doing drama over GE engines for Tejas they didn't have any contingencies, don't have any even now.

The baboons will only release funding for Mk2 MWF when GEF414 deal is complete.
 
Vishnu Som is an imported maal dalal, he is shilling for F-35.
Most of your name-brand defense patrakars do dalali.

Our only option is to push forth AMCA whatever happens but "today is not an era of war" govt isn't interested in it.

We will only wake up when the Chinese defeat us, just like 62, lets hope there aren't any terrorial losses.

He may be a import supporter but what he says is not some dystopian stuff.


And What do you mean by waking up from a defeat against China? Do you understand the implications of a military loss? In 1962, China almost reached the plains of Assam, and was only a few hundred kilometers from Bengal before turning back.

A military loss would not be an event from which India could simply recover the next day and resume normal life. It would lead not only to massive territorial losses but also to a collapse of the economy and political stability, a crisis that could take decades to overcome. Not to mention: China would likely establish a buffer zone within Indian territory not previously disputed, leaving India vulnerable to future incursions.
A weakened Indian military would fuel a surge in insurgencies and terrorist incidents across the country, exacerbating the crisis. Geopolitically, India would likely become irrelevant, with few willing to invest or do business in the nation. Aspirations like Made in India and India’s ambitions of global prominence would fade, as the country would be reduced to a state struggling for its survival.
 
He may be a import supporter but what he says is not some dystopian stuff.


And What do you mean by waking up from a defeat against China? Do you understand the implications of a military loss? In 1962, China almost reached the plains of Assam, and was only a few hundred kilometers from Bengal before turning back.

A military loss would not be an event from which India could simply recover the next day and resume normal life. It would lead not only to massive territorial losses but also to a collapse of the economy and political stability, a crisis that could take decades to overcome. Not to mention: China would likely establish a buffer zone within Indian territory not previously disputed, leaving India vulnerable to future incursions.
A weakened Indian military would fuel a surge in insurgencies and terrorist incidents across the country, exacerbating the crisis. Geopolitically, India would likely become irrelevant, with few willing to invest or do business in the nation. Aspirations like Made in India and India’s ambitions of global prominence would fade, as the country would be reduced to a state struggling for its survival.
And imports would magically make us be able to fight against China? I don't think so. Because at best we can only get 2 Squadron of a foreign 5th gen jet. Importing those is very expensive affair. To fight china you need your own 5th gen jet which you can manufacture in large quantities...AMCA is the only option against China. And that is our only path towards even building a 6th gen jet which we can mass manufacture.

I very well know our babooz will do everything to sabatoge AMCA and I'm frustrated with that. But no amount of import is going to make us be able to make us strong enough to fight against China. Import bahuduri is what making us weak my friend. Chinese are there because they trusted their systems how shitty initial bunch of those might be..
 
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Saar, what makes you so optimistic?
When Americans were doing drama over GE engines for Tejas they didn't have any contingencies, don't have any even now.
Because it's an incredibly costly and time consuming endeavor. Something we'd rather not do at this stage of the various programs like Mk2 and AMCA. Keeping the cost aside, redesigning the birds to take Russian engines alone will delay the programs by another decade plus easily. Hence the JV with a French firm for a new engine without American stakes in it.

Which is why I said, it's a very drastic measure we'd take if our hands were truly forced. These delays don't warrant a meltdown on the scale I'm envisioning. Babus are trying their level best to deal with Americans, keeping the relationship amicable and reduce delays as much as possible. But with a country like USA, you never know what will happen 5-6 years down the line. And I'm quite confident, contingencies have been well planned, sketched out and shoved in a cabinet somewhere until we need them.​
 
He may be a import supporter but what he says is not some dystopian stuff.


And What do you mean by waking up from a defeat against China? Do you understand the implications of a military loss? In 1962, China almost reached the plains of Assam, and was only a few hundred kilometers from Bengal before turning back.

A military loss would not be an event from which India could simply recover the next day and resume normal life. It would lead not only to massive territorial losses but also to a collapse of the economy and political stability, a crisis that could take decades to overcome. Not to mention: China would likely establish a buffer zone within Indian territory not previously disputed, leaving India vulnerable to future incursions.
A weakened Indian military would fuel a surge in insurgencies and terrorist incidents across the country, exacerbating the crisis. Geopolitically, India would likely become irrelevant, with few willing to invest or do business in the nation. Aspirations like Made in India and India’s ambitions of global prominence would fade, as the country would be reduced to a state struggling for its survival.

Wake up as in the shock of defeat is the only thing that will get UN Import Generols to either fix their act or rejine, and more importantly for the Govt to open it's wallet whether it is for funding of domestic projects or imports of defence maal.

The current situation is UN Import Generols stalling the induction of deshi maal with moon and mars trials and bullshit or unobtainium feature demands in hope of imports being approved

OTOH the Govt is a chindi and will rarely approve imports because they want to save $$$.

They will also never fund indigenous defence projects on time or generously, expecting jet engines on shoe string budget just because ISRO makes rockets in a cave with a box of scraps.

In 1962 we lost, in 1965 we were on the outskirts of Lahore.

Rest of your post is 100% correct and is most likely to happen with current trends
You can't have a Good Ekanami without having solid defense and offense, either your own or your master's like America's many vassals.
 
And imports would magically make us be able to fight against China? I don't think so. Because at best we can only get 2 Squadron of a foreign 5th gen jet. Importing those is very expensive affair. To fight china you need your own 5th gen jet which you can manufacture in large quantities...AMCA is the only option against China. And that is our only path towards even building a 6th gen jet which we can mass manufacture.

I very well know our babooz will do everything to sabatoge AMCA and I'm frustrated with that. But no amount of import is going to make us be able to make us strong enough to fight against China. Import bahuduri is what making us weak my friend. Chinese are there because they trusted their systems how shitty initial bunch of those might be..
The problem is you are trying to analyze situation by fighting the battle at the battleground in which enemy wants you to fight
Like I said all this fifth Gen tech will go for a toss the day when better detection radars will come to market these clumsy fifth Gen will become obsolete at a pace we haven't seen

What India needs to focus is on layered Air defence and focus on bettering your radars
Moreover what we need to invest heavily on is unmanned techs , our manned platform should be able to vector non manned platform to enemy zone and cause destruction to infra

Until we are trapped on this Stop gap loop we will always play a catch-up games and it is a lose situation for us , we need to up the game and change the nature of battlefield but the problem I see is the inability of our think tank to be risk takers we won't be able to reach our potential..
 

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1936789460831883443

I dont think this will even get completed by 2040s

If creating mess was an art then India is picasso in it

U guys must watch the podcast of def sec, that guy was typical example of current state of bureaucracy arrogant egoistic and reluctant to learn. Was acting like some sort of great achievement he has done

Bc aukat nahi hai in mandbudhon ki ek artillery gun thik se procure karne ki par esa baat karte hai ki jese pure duniya pe raj karte hai
 
Too much Hopium and Copium in the forum lately, let's clear some of it.

1. Su-57E is never happening. And there are some very good reasons for that. That thing is a sasta stealth combat aircraft and does not offer any new capability in terms of low observability, precision guidance(does not even have an EOTS), no next generation long range A2A missiles, no fifth gen engines with greater thrust and efficiency(AL-51F/Item-30 is at least a decade away), and no Man Unmanned teaming. The very fact that Russians told us that Su-57E can roll out of our existing manufacturing facility in Nashik should tell us that the aircraft offers no new capability over the Su-30Mki, as it is not much more complex than it. And it runs the risk of CAATSA, no one in the GoI will risk that in the present environment.

2. F-35 is also not possible for us because we run the risk of sharing our entire threat library with the US. That is problematic for our foreign relations with the Russians and other nations. Also, there are technical limitations with the aircraft. It uses a different type of Datalink that we cannot integrate with our Datalink. Rafale is still proving to be a problematic child in this area. Imagine how problematic this will be. We won't be able to integrate our locally developed missiles and weaponry onto it, some of which is good. Think the Astra Mk3, DRDO SAAW, Rudram Mk3, Brahmos NG, and many more that will be available over the next 5-10 years. We cannot have an aircraft that we cannot integrate into our force. Plus, there are risks of USAF personnel being stationed permanently at our airbases, which raises a risk to our sovereignty.

3. Right now, AMCA is the only program, but it is in its infancy, crying about not ordering enough of it, not having the right model, and all is just hot air at this point. Wait for the prototype development, and from what I have heard and learnt is that it is going smoothly as a lot of work was already carried out before the CCS clearance was granted. AMCA will have to go into Mark development mode, Mk1 will have limited to no A2G capability, Mk2 will have enhanced stealth as well as A2G capability, and that is what the plan is right now. To have an offensive air capability, A2G can wait for some time.

The job of the IAF is to protect the airspace, and if required, we need to purchase imported equipment, and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of our defence planning and procurement has been remedied, we have cleared the induction of 6-9 additional AWACS, 56 light transport aircraft have been ordered, more will come for sure, the MTA program has been revived, Aakahs NG, QRSAM, our airbases have been hardened and IMO they are some of the best protected ones on the planet, Project Kusha have received the right attention and have moved in the right direction, we have dramatically improved our SEAD/DEAD capability. But that does not mean there are some really big gaps/holes in the IAF and most of which are the doing of them, the MoD, and the PMO. Modi and Taklu should get the blame for our broken procurement.

Despite having seen 3 flare-ups with the Chinese and 3 with the Pakistanis in the last 11 years, there has been zero ORBAT inflation, IAF has now realized that it needs 60 manned squadron combat fleet, It pulled out of the FGFA program in 2017 but did not push for the CCS approval for 7 years, MoD did not order additional 36/54 Rafale in the aftermath of the Dogfight in Feb-19, MoD did not push for more AWACS and Tankers, did not raise the ceiling of the required combat aircraft squadrons from 42 to 60, although that is pointless given we will not be reaching the 42 number until the middle of the 2040s. Should we end up facing the Chinese and the Pakistanis in the 2030-32 time frame(India and Pakistan/China have a flare-up every 5 to 7 years), which is given at this point. IAF won't go down, it will be able to dominate the Pakistanis and hold onto the PLAAF, but it will suffer catastrophic losses. A two-front war will result in 40% or more of the IAF being trashed, but it will be able to fight on. IAF's number will start picking up from next year as more Tejas Mk1A start getting delivered, and once the Mk2 comes into the picture, it will be in a much better shape, at least numerically, but it will be a generation or two behind the Chinese and at least a generation behind the Pakistanis. But it cannot import its way out this time. There is not enough FOREX reserve to pay for big ticket foreign maal, it will have to wait for the AMCA to come online or risk losing control of the air. The IAF will hit its low point in the middle of the next decade once the Chinese induct their sixth-generation combat platforms.
 
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Too much Hopium and Copium in the forum lately, let's clear some of it.
ngl our forum has started showing signs of depression and mental trauma inflicted due to lightning fast procurements
 
Which in turn will only result in the redesigning of the Tejas Mk2 to fly with an AL-41. Delay AMCA further, and possibly even scrap the MK1 medium design (in case the Safran-GTRE JV doesn't work out); opting for a larger heavier aircraft with twin AL-41s/derivatives. Americans enacting CAASTA only forces our hands and sours whatever good will was built up in the last 20 ish years. It'll delay our programs but Americans themselves will get a fat L in return.​
Whatever tech they were selling, whatever military techs they were promising, was always a trap, open trap. Time to run out of it is now.
 
F35 lauda aayega, given the way things are going with the US.

The are never selling us the F35 without forcing us to procure F16 in significant numbers. Trump bs aside, it's never clearing their processes given the Russian equipment we use.

And even if it comes, there will be so many strings attached you can make those units the lead characters of puppet shows across India.

Blackmail over usage, kill switches, choke hold over spare parts supply and maintenance operations and hundreds of orher disadvantages.

Might as well as buy 100s more Tejas as those will be actually useful in combat.
There is a proverb in Hindi, G bhi tumhara hi maarenge aur uska kharch bhi tumse hi wasulenge. This is what US does by selling US weapons.

US weapons are for US interests. The more the US weapons, more entrapped you are, more compromised you are. More they start dictating you. US weapons will fight for US's interests whether in Indian hands or otherwise.

India needs not touch more of US weapons by even a distance.
 
Vishnu Som is an imported maal dalal, he is shilling for F-35.
Most of your name-brand defense patrakars do dalali.

Our only option is to push forth AMCA whatever happens but "today is not an era of war" govt isn't interested in it.

We will only wake up when the Chinese defeat us, just like 62, lets hope there aren't any terrorial losses.
Lolz vishnu som is a cia soros rat who was in ndtv during pallav baghla gettyimage scandal.He has a osama doll as well.

 
And imports would magically make us be able to fight against China? I don't think so. Because at best we can only get 2 Squadron of a foreign 5th gen jet. Importing those is very expensive affair. To fight china you need your own 5th gen jet which you can manufacture in large quantities...AMCA is the only option against China. And that is our only path towards even building a 6th gen jet which we can mass manufacture.

I very well know our babooz will do everything to sabatoge AMCA and I'm frustrated with that. But no amount of import is going to make us be able to make us strong enough to fight against China. Import bahuduri is what making us weak my friend. Chinese are there because they trusted their systems how shitty initial bunch of those might be..

F35 is a proven and mature platform.A single F35 can take out 4-8 F16 and F15 strike eagle, reported by numerous pilots who have participated in Red Flag exercises. So, if we were to acquire two squadrons of it, at least it would give us a breathing space, providing an edge over the immediate threat, such as Pakistan, and a fighting chance against China.

Pakistan has clear intentions to conduct airstrikes on India and will likely do so the moment it gains a technological advantage. There is a 90% chance of an India-Pakistan war breaking out in the next few years. Without a 5th-generation fighter, our air assets would be in immense trouble.

The AMCA is at least 10 years away and is an overly ambitious program. Such ambitions leave no room for even minor failures or delays. The agency developing it and the company manufacturing it would need to operate with efficiency surpassing that of Amazon, Apple, or Tesla. Moreover, the aircraft delivered in 2035 must incorporate 2035’s cutting-edge technologies, not those of 2025.

So,the risks of investing all resources in the AMCA are simply too high. Realistically, delays and issues during development could push the timeline to 2040. And if this were to happen,i cannot even put into words of what will happen with India.
 
It is quite clear that india will have to buy a 5th generation fighter. Matter of time only.
If AMCA was 1-2 years away, may be we wouldn't have to.
LCA mk2 is being delayed every few months.
AMCA mk2 is atleast 20 years away.
To think we will not need FG till then....
Not possible.
 
F35 is a proven and mature platform.A single F35 can take out 4-8 F16 and F15 strike eagle, reported by numerous pilots who have participated in Red Flag exercises. So, if we were to acquire two squadrons of it, at least it would give us a breathing space, providing an edge over the immediate threat, such as Pakistan, and a fighting chance against China.

Remember, Pakistan has all intentions to carry out airstrikes on India, and they will do that the day they get a technological edge over India. There is a more than 90% chance of an India-Pakistan war breaking out in the next few years.A lack of a 5th-generation fighter would put our air assets in immense trouble.

The AMCA is at least 10 years away and is an overly ambitious program. Such ambitions leave no room for even minor failures or delays. The agency developing it and the company manufacturing it would need to operate with efficiency surpassing that of Amazon, Apple, or Tesla. Moreover, the aircraft delivered in 2035 must incorporate 2035’s cutting-edge technologies, not those of 2025.

So,the risks of investing all resources in the AMCA are simply too high. Realistically, delays and issues during development could push the timeline to 2040. And if this were to happen,i cannot even put into words of what will happen with India.
F35 can carry only 4 aam so how will it take out 8 f16?
Did the red flag exercise contained aewcs, it can completely change the outcome. Sadly we are far behind in aewcs .
F35 will be best for seed missions but for bombing and a2a missions deep inside enemy territory, not so much if the enemy has good amount of fighter jets.

POrkis will get edge over us with j35 unless we decide to strike them first
 
Optimum scenario.....
Buy 5 sq rafales, 2 sq SU 57 now. 3 sq SU57 for local assembly.
Full speed for lcamk2 and amca
Testbed for kaveri

All at once
 

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