AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Blood+]

Pata nahi bhai, electronic ya hydrolic actuators hi puucha tha, usme bhi iske andar machgyi. His mind regarding amca is too negative, he needs to learn from Pakis on how to take copium.

Just plain erratic is what he is.

 

[Blood+]

AMCA is becoming a joke now, not much different from Project AZM/PFX. People are taking it as a funny/jokes thread.
It’s stupid to continuously speculate about something so far fetched. Otherwise it will look like an IDRW blog aka will/would/can/could/should forum. Let them come with something at least that proves that they are indeed serious about the project, apart from those models we see regularly on Aero-shows.
Chinese, Koreans and even Turks all started late and today all have either a production ready product or at least have multiple flying prototypes. What does we have apart from a paper drawing?

Korean one is not a 5th gen, period.
The turkish one, well, it flew alright... and that's about the only thing it can do (and will be able to do for the foreseeable future) .

 

[Ayan Barat]

Turks

Please do me a favour

Quote the capital released for both Ka'an and AMCA till date. And yeah, the dates too on which it was done.

Please, I request you

 

[randombully]

AMCA is becoming a joke now, not much different from Project AZM/PFX. People are taking it as a funny/jokes thread.
It’s stupid to continuously speculate about something so far fetched. Otherwise it will look like an IDRW blog aka will/would/can/could/should forum. Let them come with something at least that proves that they are indeed serious about the project, apart from those models we see regularly on Aero-shows.
Chinese, Koreans and even Turks all started late and today all have either a production ready product or at least have multiple flying prototypes. What does we have apart from a paper drawing?

I wouldn't count Turkey.
Their kaan Is just flight capable stealthy looking skeletal airframe powered by 2 f 16 engines, it's not even based on the final design, because final design of kaan is still not Completed, and it's a big deal, because design decides the size and too a large extent the capabilities of the subsystems in the fighter jet.

There's also no news about what radar will go there, what is the progression of radar, EOTS other sensors etc.
That airframe was created because it was 100th anniversary of Turkey.
It doesn't even have weapons way.

And please don't start with "atleast its flying" because it won't be hard for drdo to create a skeleton airframe of amca capable of flight, they are not creating it beacuse it's not worth it, Turkey did it as a false showoff for "100th anniversary".

So just use "chinese" "koreans" "west" and even Japan( they had that shinshin) to shit on AMCA

 

[AbRaj]

Korean one is not a 5th gen, period.

They have a roadmap and they are pretty much on track to achieve all the milestones, including IWBs. Unlike AMCA/chAMCA which is flying high only inside the show case at aeroindia. And they have industrial might to back it up.

The turkish one, well, it flew alright... and that's about the only thing it will be able to do for quite a while.

Isn’t it good that a fight jet flies in real space, that two within such a short time, and not hanging on a stand since two decades. Flying and deta collection alone is a huge milestone for a jet plane.

 

[AbRaj]

Please do me a favour

Quote the capital released for both Ka'an and AMCA till date. And yeah, the dates too on which it was done.

Please, I request

That’s what Im saying India is not serious about it’s Airforce and military.
Chinese and Pakis will not gonna ask GOI to Invest in its defences when next war will come knocking at the door. We will be fortunate to even able to say “Agar F22 hota to…”
We have rabidly hostile neighbours all around us that came after massacring thousands of us, and a Manufacturing giant to supply unlimited amount of virtually everything that is required to win a war.
All they need is a coordinated campaign like Six Day war.

Everything about AMCA is a mess, much like LCA and MWF. HAL and GOI is myopic. They can’t even manage supply of a jet engine from a manufacturing giant like GE, tell us about their project management capabilities.
PS: Excuse me,I’m out.

 

[randombully]

EM actuators are never used in the primary flight surfaces of a fighter, it's always hydraulic

Seems too small for hydraulic on f 35, no bump at all.

 

[Ayan Barat]

View attachment 17578View attachment 17579
Seems too small for hydraulic on f 35, no bump at all.

You love pics, I love classical physics

A 20ton machine is flying, you give an ever so slightest flick to your wrist, the whole aerodynamics of a wing gets changed, suddenly the drag on a small part increases immensely, the machine banks accelerating way more than that of gravity and suddenly the stick is flicked the other way in a split second all the respective forces change direction, not to mention the inertia that needs to be countered in seconds...pure electromechanical actuators can never live up to this task and even if they can theoretically exert the required force on paper, the lead screw would take so much time to travel the distance that you'd be engaged by the adversary.

On a totally different note, here's the exact hydraulic actuator from Parker Aerospace that's used on F-35...enjoy

 

[AbRaj]

I wouldn't count Turkey.
Their kaan Is just flight capable stealthy looking skeletal airframe powered by 2 f 16 engines, it's not even based on the final design, because final design of kaan is still not Completed, and it's a big deal, because design decides the size and too a large extent the capabilities of the subsystems in the fighter jet.

There's also no news about what radar will go there, what is the progression of radar, EOTS other sensors etc.
That airframe was created because it was 100th anniversary of Turkey.
It doesn't even have weapons way.
View attachment 17575
And please don't start with "atleast its flying" because it won't be hard for drdo to create a skeleton airframe of amca capable of flight, they are not creating it beacuse it's not worth it, Turkey did it as a false showoff for "100th anniversary".

So just use "chinese" "koreans" "west" and even Japan( they had that shinshin) to shit on AMCA

Nothing is “worth it” as per HAL Fanboys except for a wooden model at an aero show.

As far as components are concerned, for J31/35 or KF21 or MMU, all one need is feed Google baba with keywords and find appropriate link.

 

[randombully]

You love pics, I love classical physics

A 20ton machine is flying, you give an ever so slightest flick to your wrist, the whole aerodynamics of a wing gets changed, suddenly the drag on a small part increases immensely, the machine banks accelerating way more than that of gravity and suddenly the stick is flicked the other way in a split second all the respective forces change direction, not to mention the inertia that needs to be countered in seconds...pure electromechanical actuators can never live up to this task and even if they can theoretically exert the required force on paper, the lead screw would take so much time to travel the distance that you'd be engaged by the adversary.

On a totally different note, here's the exact hydraulic actuator from Parker Aerospace that's used on F-35...enjoy
View attachment 17581

Dang, so they were to minitaruise the hydrolic actuator to such a level.

 

[randombully]

Nothing is “worth it” as per HAL Fanboys except for a wooden model at an aero show.

As far as components are concerned, for J31/35 or KF21 or MMU, all one need is feed Google baba with keywords and find appropriate link.

It is worth it.
Your shitting on amca is completely legit, just that Turks are not an example.

 

[AbRaj]

It is worth it.
Your shitting on amca is completely legit, just that Turks are not an example.

Why, Because it hurts our ego ?

 

[randombully]

Why, Because it hurts our ego

Because Their kaan Is just flight capable stealthy looking skeletal airframe powered by 2 f 16 engines, it's not even based on the final design,

 

[NerVik]

Why, Because it hurts our ego ?

Because it takes more than just an airframe to make a plane, especially a 5th gen fighter. Electronics, engines, radar, everything matters. The turk plane can't even retract its landing gear. It has nothing in it that they intend to use in their production run. Even the design is not finalized. Whatever data they are collecting will only help them optimize this design and may influence the final design but I don't think it is of much help to them. Does anyone know what material they used to make this prototype and if that is what they will use for the final production version?

 

[randombully]

Because it takes more than just an airframe to make a plane, especially a 5th gen fighter. Electronics, engines, radar, everything matters. The turk plane can't even retract its landing gear. It has nothing in it that they intend to use in their production run. Even the design is not finalized. Whatever data they are collecting will only help them optimize this design and may influence the final design but I don't think it is of much help to them. Does anyone know what material they used to make this prototype and if that is what they will use for the final production version?

Optimise? We were able to finalize the design purely based wind tunnel and computer simulations.
In modern day you don't need to fly a aircraft to collect the data to Optimize the design.
It's purely for false showoff because it was their 100th anniversary

 

[NerVik]

Optimise? We were able to finalize the design purely based wind tunnel and computer simulations.
In modern day you don't need to fly a aircraft to collect the data to Optimize the design.
It's purely for false showoff because it was their 100th anniversary

Exactly my point too. What js the purpose of advancing in CAD and design engineering if we have to make dumbed down prototypes and waste money and time.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Because Their kaan Is just flight capable stealthy looking skeletal airframe powered by 2 f 16 engines, it's not even based on the final design,

Correct me if I am wrong: whereas the AMCA prototypes are to test and validate a finalised design, the KAAN prototypes are part of the design and development process. Agreed, KAAN prototype 0 was a distraction, a ground test airframe repurposed to fly in 2023 to celebrate Turkiye's 100th anniversary. I believe that problems in the electrical system delayed FF to 2024.

Correct me again if I am wrong: the KF-21 programme has two distinct phases - firstly the current airframe design, secondly a possible airframe including IWB.

Project progress: KF-21 appears to be on schedule; F110 KAAN is very difficult to assess, given that the design is still fluid; AMCA Mk1 ??

All 3 projects started in 2010.

 

[daya]

I mean they have to start somewhere. Even if mastering some technology, requires half a century. Atleast, they should start working on it now, to even hope to achieve something.
Do you have any info regarding this?
Was any initiative taken by the government with regards to this?

Very wishful thinking.. Let's hope so.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Will amca use electronic actuators or hydraulic?

AMCA might use EHA/hydraullic actuators.
F-22 uses EHA ones but its slats might be using rotary electrical drive.
F-35 uses Electro-Hydrostatic ones.
Globally there have been R&D on EMA or electro-mechanical actuators. Google search will give lots of info.


F-16 AFTI tested it.



YF-23 had V-tail as big as F-16 wing. Flaps, aelerons, rudders, slats of fighters are small things, but IDK if hydraulic actuators can move very fast a big control surface.
It is logical to reduce space by eliminating hydraullic reservoirs, pumps, pipes, motors by just an EM motor.

View attachment 17578View attachment 17579
Seems too small for hydraulic on f 35, no bump at all.

F-35's Flaperon actuator bump is at wing root. It is an extended bulge from front to back.

 

[randombully]

Correct me if I am wrong: whereas the AMCA prototypes are to test and validate a finalised design, the KAAN prototypes are part of the design and development process. Agreed, KAAN prototype 0 was a distraction, a ground test airframe repurposed to fly in 2023 to celebrate Turkiye's 100th anniversary. I believe that problems in the electrical system delayed FF to 2024.

Correct me again if I am wrong: the KF-21 programme has two distinct phases - firstly the current airframe design, secondly a possible airframe including IWB.

Project progress: KF-21 appears to be on schedule; F110 KAAN is very difficult to assess, given that the design is still fluid; AMCA Mk1 ??

All 3 projects started in 2010.

Koreans will also induct the 4.5 gen version of kf21.
So it is a finalized design( of 4.5gen version)