AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Ayan Barat]

View: https://x.com/kishanchand_89/status/1892814154853208393

AI slop hai ChaCha

 

[jaijaganath]

Quoting Air Marshal Rajkumar (R)

On Feb 11 I visited AI 25 and was shown the full scale all composite airframe of the AMCA. After the show extensive RCS measurement tests are planned to fine tune the signature to the lowest possible figure

Source:

View: https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/1892734134319251626

Here he says ground run of mk2 on apr 26 and ff scheduled on latter half of 2026

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Quoting Air Marshal Rajkumar (R)

On Feb 11 I visited AI 25 and was shown the full scale all composite airframe of the AMCA. After the show extensive RCS measurement tests are planned to fine tune the signature to the lowest possible figure

Source:

View: https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/1892734134319251626

Looking at that static model & infographic, to lower the RCS further, IMO-
- the ladder needs to be eliminated.
- IFRP replaced with spine receptacle like in F-22, B-2, etc. This would requires mixed boom+drouge type tankers. BTW, now the West is even thinking about stealth tanker NGAS.
- stealthy IRST on top if implemented, not like Su-57.
- gun seems to have a bump rather than blended with door.
- glass canopy looks too big.
- canopy arc looks external, ideally should be eliminated, or at least made internal.
- IDK if any clarification on multiple side panels.
- If 1st IOC batch will have F414 engines then that's non-stealthy. We should talk with GE for LO panels.
- extend the rudder & stab aft to hide engines better.
- flatten/blend the actuator bumps more.
- In interview they said they will use RAS but don't wanna put much RAM as it gets off due to friction & heat & after every flight it has to be inspected & spots painted if required. Well, currently paint is also the technical requirement if lesser RCS is desired. Every feature costs something, same like in civilian products. But RAM application is multi-layered bonding, exactly still a secret.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1841126779425264041?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1841126779425264041%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

 

[Hari Sud]

How to say no to F-35 from USA.

Can be afford to say no politely to Trump for F35 offer. It is only possible if we buy something else from US.

Its price and life cycle is too high. It is too secretive which will prevent proper operation during war as U.S. personnel will have to be present to prepare it for next flight.

It was a psychological hammer strike on Pakistan for buying a lower end stealth fighter from China. No matter what the Chinese claim their product will be second class because it is copy and reverse engineered. Its avionics and weapons are very poor. That hammer strike worked. The Pakistan is on back foot of over confidence. Now they do not talk anymore.

If we examine Russian offer for SU-57; which the IAF walked away 6 years back is now much different fighter from when India left its development. Moreover Russians can make it in India with 40% Indian parts. Also it is much cheaper. Two/three squadrons will do. Then we can wait for Indian AMCA to be ready.

In about 15 years; the world would be awash with stealth fighters including Indian stealth. Pakistan would have to be content with second class Chinese.

Hence find ways to say no to USA without upsetting Trump. Buy something else.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

How to say no to F-35 from USA.

Can be afford to say no politely to Trump for F35 offer. It is only possible if we buy something else from US.

Its price and life cycle is too high. It is too secretive which will prevent proper operation during war as U.S. personnel will have to be present to prepare it for next flight.

It was a psychological hammer strike on Pakistan for buying a lower end stealth fighter from China. No matter what the Chinese claim their product will be second class because it is copy and reverse engineered. Its avionics and weapons are very poor. That hammer strike worked. The Pakistan is on back foot of over confidence. Now they do not talk anymore.

If we examine Russian offer for SU-57; which the IAF walked away 6 years back is now much different fighter from when India left its development. Moreover Russians can make it in India with 40% Indian parts. Also it is much cheaper. Two/three squadrons will do. Then we can wait for Indian AMCA to be ready.

In about 15 years; the world would be awash with stealth fighters including Indian stealth. Pakistan would have to be content with second class Chinese.

Hence find ways to say no to USA without upsetting Trump. Buy something else.

Although this is out of thread topic, but from AMCA's PoV, 2-3 squads as stopgap should not impact AMCA program unless GoI/MoD states.
It is difficult to conclude anything currently bcoz both jets have +/- points, some technical, some political.
F-35 has better quality, stealth, avionics & ahead in time. But USA regime change in future can again do arm-twisting. And how much customization USA will allow is not clear yet. Software world is already tricky & dangerous.
Su-57 has some new & good things like Levcons, DIRCM, TVC & now better stealthy nozzles. But its RCS is still more, no EOTS, engine blocker visible, engine rear nacelle still round, etc. Again, IDK how much customization Russians would allow.

Global leaders' products are considered 1st class. Everyting else, if competing well is also 1st class otherwise 2nd class, that means us also.
We shoud not under-estimate adversaries when we're lagging in all domains of engineering & they already have some products. Our DoD has started to make lots of new things but we still ask for ToT.
Espionage is an ancient thing, so cursing adversaries of copying, reverse-engineering doesn't help us. Such thinking relaxes our progress also. 3rd world nations like India are heaven for spies, moles, traiters, sleeper cells, etc.
Airframe design is visible & can be analysed much more easily than weapons & avionics to which outsiders don't have access.

Currently we've only 1 stealth fighter project AMCA. IN has only indicated 1st time for stealth TEDBF. Our 6gen roadmap is only 1 liner. Su-30MKI's replacement cannot be Su-57. So our DoD has to start talking about it TODAY as it would take 15-20 years to induct it. We don't have afterburning Kaveri yet. JV is not 100% clear yet. There was no technical progress shown on 1:1 static model of AMCA.
So we should focus on ourselves 1st.

 

[Hari Sud]

Although this is out of thread topic, but from AMCA's PoV, 2-3 squads as stopgap should not impact AMCA program unless GoI/MoD states.
It is difficult to conclude anything currently bcoz both jets have +/- points, some technical, some political.
F-35 has better quality, stealth, avionics & ahead in time. But USA regime change in future can again do arm-twisting. And how much customization USA will allow is not clear yet. Software world is already tricky & dangerous.
Su-57 has some new & good things like Levcons, DIRCM, TVC & now better stealthy nozzles. But its RCS is still more, no EOTS, engine blocker visible, engine rear nacelle still round, etc. Again, IDK how much customization Russians would allow.

Global leaders' products are considered 1st class. Everyting else, if competing well is also 1st class otherwise 2nd class, that means us also.
We shoud not under-estimate adversaries when we're lagging in all domains of engineering & they already have some products. Our DoD has started to make lots of new things but we still ask for ToT.
Espionage is an ancient thing, so cursing adversaries of copying, reverse-engineering doesn't help us. Such thinking relaxes our progress also. 3rd world nations like India are heaven for spies, moles, traiters, sleeper cells, etc.
Airframe design is visible & can be analysed much more easily than weapons & avionics to which outsiders don't have access.

Currently we've only 1 stealth fighter project AMCA. IN has only indicated 1st time for stealth TEDBF. Our 6gen roadmap is only 1 liner. Su-30MKI's replacement cannot be Su-57. So our DoD has to start talking about it TODAY as it would take 15-20 years to induct it. We don't have afterburning Kaveri yet. JV is not 100% clear yet. There was no technical progress shown on 1:1 static model of AMCA.
So we should focus on ourselves 1st.

Slow down; make your point clearly. War is not breaking out tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Pakistan has no money to fight a war. Chinese have withdrawn to the east to face the might of America. That is the reason Chinese are quietly making peace calls to India. Never start believing propaganda. The Chinese fighter will always be second class.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Although this is out of thread topic, but from AMCA's PoV, 2-3 squads as stopgap should not impact AMCA program unless GoI/MoD states.
It is difficult to conclude anything currently bcoz both jets have +/- points, some technical, some political.
F-35 has better quality, stealth, avionics & ahead in time. But USA regime change in future can again do arm-twisting. And how much customization USA will allow is not clear yet. Software world is already tricky & dangerous.
Su-57 has some new & good things like Levcons, DIRCM, TVC & now better stealthy nozzles. But its RCS is still more, no EOTS, engine blocker visible, engine rear nacelle still round, etc. Again, IDK how much customization Russians would allow.

Global leaders' products are considered 1st class. Everyting else, if competing well is also 1st class otherwise 2nd class, that means us also.
We shoud not under-estimate adversaries when we're lagging in all domains of engineering & they already have some products. Our DoD has started to make lots of new things but we still ask for ToT.
Espionage is an ancient thing, so cursing adversaries of copying, reverse-engineering doesn't help us. Such thinking relaxes our progress also. 3rd world nations like India are heaven for spies, moles, traiters, sleeper cells, etc.
Airframe design is visible & can be analysed much more easily than weapons & avionics to which outsiders don't have access.

Currently we've only 1 stealth fighter project AMCA. IN has only indicated 1st time for stealth TEDBF. Our 6gen roadmap is only 1 liner. Su-30MKI's replacement cannot be Su-57. So our DoD has to start talking about it TODAY as it would take 15-20 years to induct it. We don't have afterburning Kaveri yet. JV is not 100% clear yet. There was no technical progress shown on 1:1 static model of AMCA.
So we should focus on ourselves 1st.

You are very technically sound but tactically/strategically aren't. Whatever that 2-3 squadrons don't come atleast before 2030. Any AF takes atleast 3-4 or even 5 years to familiarize with them. Even more so how exactly are you gonna use a foreign 5th-Gen when CCP gonna field 500 J-20s there?

 

[Kontakt5]

You are very technically sound but tactically/strategically aren't. Whatever that 2-3 squadrons don't come atleast before 2030. Any AF takes atleast 3-4 or even 5 years to familiarize with them. Even more so how exactly are you gonna use a foreign 5th-Gen when CCP gonna field 500 J-20s there?

His point is that J20 is second rate 5th gen ‘500’ J20s is an overblown threat they can’t get that many in the air over the lac. They’ll also only be able to field only a fraction of that so a few squadrons. They aren’t true 5th gens so despite being large in number they are not very powerful. All of these factors supposedly evens the playing field.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

His point is that J20 is second rate 5th gen ‘500’ J20s is an overblown threat they can’t get that many in the air over the lac. They’ll also only be able to field only a fraction of that so a few squadrons. They aren’t true 5th gens so despite being large in number they are not very powerful. All of these factors supposedly evens the playing field.

Come on, are we gonna become like pakis now deluding like this? Su-57 surely is a crap but J-20 isn't.

 

[JTP]

We already have surpassed al31 engine.
It's a late 3rd gen engine.
Dry Kaveri performance is in category of early 4th gen engines.

We can't say that until we have an operational Kaveri flying.

 

[INVADER]

F35 Case -> 2-3 Squardons (36-54 jets) for ~5 Bn

We can't integrate
BRAHM0S NG
Rudram 1/2/3
Astra 1/2/3
Saaw bombs
Gaurav bombs

So separate 2-3 Bn for Aim 160 , Aim 9x , jassm missile , ARM missile & SDB etc.

SO in toto 7-8 Bn for becoming a puppet in americucks hand

If we get even a single glitch/hardware trouble in Radar , sensor & Engine then F35 will be grounded for months and will only see sky after we paying some Billions

Inshort its Saar we want to drop bombs on porkistan saar....pls alow us saaar...we ukraine of Asia saar....


Su 57 case -> We rejected it 8 years ago....Import lobby who is always ready to import substandard shit were unhappy with su57....How bad su57 should have been to get rejected by Import lobby


Imo we should cancel TEDBF and go with Naval AMCA.

IAF might induct ~200 AMCA (reported by ANI)
IN wants 145 Jets for 3 carriers

So in TOTO 345 (AMCA + Naval AMCA) this will bring down unit cost and we can have production rate of ~36 Jets/year

AMCA will come before TEDBF

AMCA 1,600 GaN TRM radar is superior to f35 radar

AMCA F414 and future JV 110-120 Kn engine will be superior than ruski engines on su 57 "in terms of technology and overall MRO in service life"

Naval AMCA is capable of carrying 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in its IWB Which IMO is world class payload for STOBAR Aircraft carriers

BDL signed deal to produce sea breaker In india

IMO AMCA IWB & sea breaker are made for each other




In recent aeroindia ADA officials said PAYLOAD of AMCA IWB is 1,600 Kg....so 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in IWB are perfect fit.....

no way current 4.5 gen TEDBF getting edge of j35 in 2035-2040....so go with Naval AMCA

You can even carry 2 x Rudram 3 or Brahm0s NG under wings (Externally)

 

[AbRaj]

F35 Case -> 2-3 Squardons (36-54 jets) for ~5 Bn

We can't integrate
BRAHM0S NG
Rudram 1/2/3
Astra 1/2/3
Saaw bombs
Gaurav bombs

So separate 2-3 Bn for Aim 160 , Aim 9x , jassm missile , ARM missile & SDB etc.

SO in toto 7-8 Bn for becoming a puppet in americucks hand

If we get even a single glitch/hardware trouble in Radar , sensor & Engine then F35 will be grounded for months and will only see sky after we paying some Billions

Inshort its Saar we want to drop bombs on porkistan saar....pls alow us saaar...we ukraine of Asia saar....


Su 57 case -> We rejected it 8 years ago....Import lobby who is always ready to import substandard shit were unhappy with su57....How bad su57 should have been to get rejected by Import lobby


Imo we should cancel TEDBF and go with Naval AMCA.

IAF might induct ~200 AMCA (reported by ANI)
IN wants 145 Jets for 3 carriers

So in TOTO 345 (AMCA + Naval AMCA) this will bring down unit cost and we can have production rate of ~36 Jets/year

AMCA will come before TEDBF

Naval AMCA is capable of carrying 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in its IWB Which IMO is world class payload for STOBAR Aircraft carriers

BDL signed deal to produce sea breaker In india

IMO AMCA IWB & sea breaker are made for each other

View attachment 26207
View attachment 26208

In recent aeroindia ADA officials said PAYLOAD of AMCA IWB is 1,600 Kg....so 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in IWB are perfect fit.....

no way current 4.5 gen TEDBF getting edge of j35 in 2035-2040....so go with Naval AMCA

You can even carry 2 x Rudram 3 or Brahm0s NG under wings (Externally)

Summary of the post above

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Slow down; make your point clearly. War is not breaking out tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Pakistan has no money to fight a war. Chinese have withdrawn to the east to face the might of America. That is the reason Chinese are quietly making peace calls to India. Never start believing propaganda. The Chinese fighter will always be second class.

I already made things clear. What is so fast & not clear to you?
People in 30s onwards with minimum a decade of industrial experience, should not pass blunt statements.
And China makes certain types of 3rd class exports but not for its domestic use. So whatever class Chinese are, we're the same & 10-20 years behind them in most if not every industrial domain.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

You are very technically sound but tactically/strategically aren't. Whatever that 2-3 squadrons don't come atleast before 2030. Any AF takes atleast 3-4 or even 5 years to familiarize with them. Even more so how exactly are you gonna use a foreign 5th-Gen when CCP gonna field 500 J-20s there?

> Well, being a low IQ civilian techie that too non-PCM, at least i can admit honestly that planning the war strategy & tactics is not my forte. Hence i said that it is difficult to conclude aything.
If IDK then i say IDK bcoz with hi-tech secret things & war plans - people who know don't talk & people who talk don't know.

> The IAF guys are SCIENCE GRADS but OPERATORS & TESTERS, not R&D.
While importing a jet they (pilots, mechanics, technicians, etc) do get training abroad & domesticaly.
Pilots focus on cockpit & flying. Mechanics & technicians focus on their domain of parts - mechanical, electrical, electronics, S/w, materials, etc.
Their batches are mix of high & medium experienced people. S.O.P.s are layed out.
So they don't take 3/4/5 years to FAMILIARIZE with any jet. 1 year is good enough.

> I've stated many times since old days that war can break out unexpectedly any time. Losses will be on both side but the technically lagging side would loose more even in stalemate or cease-fire.
What we citizens can do other than only raise concerns?
Just like we have risk of war on multiple fronts, China has same risk with West.
Himalayas give us some defence advanatge which China is trying to counter numerically.
Just like we have numerical advantage over Pakistan, China'll have it upon us always.
But 1962 will repeat one day, diplomacy is only delaying it.

IMO, we need to fast-track AMCA & some other programs like in 24x7 timetable what some call "mission mode", etc, recruit more people where required, expand facilities. That's what China might be doing.

His point is that J20 is second rate 5th gen ‘500’ J20s is an overblown threat they can’t get that many in the air over the lac. They’ll also only be able to field only a fraction of that so a few squadrons. They aren’t true 5th gens so despite being large in number they are not very powerful. All of these factors supposedly evens the playing field.

Come on, are we gonna become like pakis now deluding like this? Su-57 surely is a crap but J-20 isn't.

No I didn't comment specifically on J-20/35/36/50 bcoz we should not be so blunt w/o some public data to interpolate, extrapolate. I don't under-estimate adversaries & consider their jets as cola cans.
If we wan't world to trust our data on our programs then we have to consider theirs too.
Otherwise foreigners on their forums can insult & harass us, mock our AMCA, TEDBF, UAVs, RAM, RAS, etc too when our static models & infographics are not up to date.
If we consider the F-22/35 as standard then obviously all other jets are not complete 5gen - Su-57, J-20, J-35, Kaan, AMCA unless their makers start quoting the RCS # & other features.
But they have to be better than 4.5gen jets like Rafale for example.
And our AMCA is last runner Its RCS testing is yet to happen. Its 1st batch may not have TVC, etc. The program head said it'll have everything the F-35 has but after 10 years.
Time will tell soon every year how many jets China will be fielding, but we're unable to match it currently.
We can't depend only on Himalayas.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

F-35B with Meteor.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

F-35B with Meteor.
View attachment 26292

Wrong thread buddy.
Should go here:

Thread 'US Air Force'

Jul 2, 2024

Back in May 2024, US Introduced people to the New B-21 Raider:

US Air Force releases first in-flight photos of B-21 Raider, newest nuclear stealth bomber

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/new...alth-bomber-aircraft-b-21-raider/10827417002/

• SKC
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Global Military

• 

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Wrong thread buddy.

In the context of procuring a fifth gen fighter as a "stop gap" before AMCA's induction a decade later, this is the right thread buddy. There has been some discussions on missile integration, and here is a F-35 being certified to carry Meteor.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

In the context of procuring a fifth gen fighter as a "stop gap" before AMCA's induction a decade later, this is the right thread buddy. There has been some discussions on missile integration, and here is a F-35 being certified to carry Meteor.

Just posting a pic doesn't telepathically tell anyting. Explain it w.r.t. AMCA. You should write a post of your opinion on F-35 Vs AMCA, will it impact AMCA, can/should any US tech go into AMCA, has the Meteor been cleared to integrate on AMCA, etc, etc.
BTW our Astr-3 SFDR will definitely go into AMCA, as i showed diagramatically.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

In the context of procuring a fifth gen fighter as a "stop gap" before AMCA's induction a decade later, this is the right thread buddy. There has been some discussions on missile integration, and here is a F-35 being certified to carry Meteor.

Lets be real here then. F-35 will NEVER come to Indian Air Force. Ever.
The reason is simple: S-400.
If Murrica flat out kicked out Turkey from F35 program for it even wanting S400s, America will NEVER EVER EVER give India F35 with S400 being operational.
Why ?
Because Stealth jet operator from nation A will NEVER EVER want their jet to be operated in tandem with jet detector/neutralizing system of nation B : this is exactly how you 'crack' the stealth signature of F35 or stealth planes : screw around with rival detection systems designed to detect them and do thousands of hours of testing and tweaking till u find something. DUH.
Master thieves guild doesnt want to work with master police guild...ever.

So reality is, the moment these talks become even semi-serious, US will insist India cancel S400 and sell its S400 to someone else.
India will laugh and say forget that idea. We didnt just buy S400s from Russia and install it just to get rid of it and cancel further order.... besides, we brokeass nation, remember? we need air defence. What u gonna do USA, give us Patriot system for FREE to replace our S400 u want us to ditch ?

At this USA will say shit, didnt think of that. ok, in that case, you get F35 but also MUST take on 30-40 USAF personnel, who will sit in ur F35 bases and monitor their use 24/7. wont let u fly f35s under nose of s400 and crack the stealth. So they will sit and take shifts as ground staff with F35. Wherever the IAF F35s go, they go. This is how it happens with US catapult system on Frenchie or Anglo carriers, US will say.
India will blink twice and laugh and choke on her tea and say that aint happening.
Then US will say forget about F35.
India will say already forgotten.
And thats that.
Checkmate.