AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Hari Sud]

Although this is out of thread topic, but from AMCA's PoV, 2-3 squads as stopgap should not impact AMCA program unless GoI/MoD states.
It is difficult to conclude anything currently bcoz both jets have +/- points, some technical, some political.
F-35 has better quality, stealth, avionics & ahead in time. But USA regime change in future can again do arm-twisting. And how much customization USA will allow is not clear yet. Software world is already tricky & dangerous.
Su-57 has some new & good things like Levcons, DIRCM, TVC & now better stealthy nozzles. But its RCS is still more, no EOTS, engine blocker visible, engine rear nacelle still round, etc. Again, IDK how much customization Russians would allow.

Global leaders' products are considered 1st class. Everyting else, if competing well is also 1st class otherwise 2nd class, that means us also.
We shoud not under-estimate adversaries when we're lagging in all domains of engineering & they already have some products. Our DoD has started to make lots of new things but we still ask for ToT.
Espionage is an ancient thing, so cursing adversaries of copying, reverse-engineering doesn't help us. Such thinking relaxes our progress also. 3rd world nations like India are heaven for spies, moles, traiters, sleeper cells, etc.
Airframe design is visible & can be analysed much more easily than weapons & avionics to which outsiders don't have access.

Currently we've only 1 stealth fighter project AMCA. IN has only indicated 1st time for stealth TEDBF. Our 6gen roadmap is only 1 liner. Su-30MKI's replacement cannot be Su-57. So our DoD has to start talking about it TODAY as it would take 15-20 years to induct it. We don't have afterburning Kaveri yet. JV is not 100% clear yet. There was no technical progress shown on 1:1 static model of AMCA.
So we should focus on ourselves 1st.

Slow down; make your point clearly. War is not breaking out tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Pakistan has no money to fight a war. Chinese have withdrawn to the east to face the might of America. That is the reason Chinese are quietly making peace calls to India. Never start believing propaganda. The Chinese fighter will always be second class.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Although this is out of thread topic, but from AMCA's PoV, 2-3 squads as stopgap should not impact AMCA program unless GoI/MoD states.
It is difficult to conclude anything currently bcoz both jets have +/- points, some technical, some political.
F-35 has better quality, stealth, avionics & ahead in time. But USA regime change in future can again do arm-twisting. And how much customization USA will allow is not clear yet. Software world is already tricky & dangerous.
Su-57 has some new & good things like Levcons, DIRCM, TVC & now better stealthy nozzles. But its RCS is still more, no EOTS, engine blocker visible, engine rear nacelle still round, etc. Again, IDK how much customization Russians would allow.

Global leaders' products are considered 1st class. Everyting else, if competing well is also 1st class otherwise 2nd class, that means us also.
We shoud not under-estimate adversaries when we're lagging in all domains of engineering & they already have some products. Our DoD has started to make lots of new things but we still ask for ToT.
Espionage is an ancient thing, so cursing adversaries of copying, reverse-engineering doesn't help us. Such thinking relaxes our progress also. 3rd world nations like India are heaven for spies, moles, traiters, sleeper cells, etc.
Airframe design is visible & can be analysed much more easily than weapons & avionics to which outsiders don't have access.

Currently we've only 1 stealth fighter project AMCA. IN has only indicated 1st time for stealth TEDBF. Our 6gen roadmap is only 1 liner. Su-30MKI's replacement cannot be Su-57. So our DoD has to start talking about it TODAY as it would take 15-20 years to induct it. We don't have afterburning Kaveri yet. JV is not 100% clear yet. There was no technical progress shown on 1:1 static model of AMCA.
So we should focus on ourselves 1st.

You are very technically sound but tactically/strategically aren't. Whatever that 2-3 squadrons don't come atleast before 2030. Any AF takes atleast 3-4 or even 5 years to familiarize with them. Even more so how exactly are you gonna use a foreign 5th-Gen when CCP gonna field 500 J-20s there?

 

[Kontakt5]

You are very technically sound but tactically/strategically aren't. Whatever that 2-3 squadrons don't come atleast before 2030. Any AF takes atleast 3-4 or even 5 years to familiarize with them. Even more so how exactly are you gonna use a foreign 5th-Gen when CCP gonna field 500 J-20s there?

His point is that J20 is second rate 5th gen ‘500’ J20s is an overblown threat they can’t get that many in the air over the lac. They’ll also only be able to field only a fraction of that so a few squadrons. They aren’t true 5th gens so despite being large in number they are not very powerful. All of these factors supposedly evens the playing field.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

His point is that J20 is second rate 5th gen ‘500’ J20s is an overblown threat they can’t get that many in the air over the lac. They’ll also only be able to field only a fraction of that so a few squadrons. They aren’t true 5th gens so despite being large in number they are not very powerful. All of these factors supposedly evens the playing field.

Come on, are we gonna become like pakis now deluding like this? Su-57 surely is a crap but J-20 isn't.

 

[JTP]

We already have surpassed al31 engine.
It's a late 3rd gen engine.
Dry Kaveri performance is in category of early 4th gen engines.

We can't say that until we have an operational Kaveri flying.

 

[INVADER]

F35 Case -> 2-3 Squardons (36-54 jets) for ~5 Bn

We can't integrate
BRAHM0S NG
Rudram 1/2/3
Astra 1/2/3
Saaw bombs
Gaurav bombs

So separate 2-3 Bn for Aim 160 , Aim 9x , jassm missile , ARM missile & SDB etc.

SO in toto 7-8 Bn for becoming a puppet in americucks hand

If we get even a single glitch/hardware trouble in Radar , sensor & Engine then F35 will be grounded for months and will only see sky after we paying some Billions

Inshort its Saar we want to drop bombs on porkistan saar....pls alow us saaar...we ukraine of Asia saar....


Su 57 case -> We rejected it 8 years ago....Import lobby who is always ready to import substandard shit were unhappy with su57....How bad su57 should have been to get rejected by Import lobby


Imo we should cancel TEDBF and go with Naval AMCA.

IAF might induct ~200 AMCA (reported by ANI)
IN wants 145 Jets for 3 carriers

So in TOTO 345 (AMCA + Naval AMCA) this will bring down unit cost and we can have production rate of ~36 Jets/year

AMCA will come before TEDBF

AMCA 1,600 GaN TRM radar is superior to f35 radar

AMCA F414 and future JV 110-120 Kn engine will be superior than ruski engines on su 57 "in terms of technology and overall MRO in service life"

Naval AMCA is capable of carrying 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in its IWB Which IMO is world class payload for STOBAR Aircraft carriers

BDL signed deal to produce sea breaker In india

IMO AMCA IWB & sea breaker are made for each other




In recent aeroindia ADA officials said PAYLOAD of AMCA IWB is 1,600 Kg....so 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in IWB are perfect fit.....

no way current 4.5 gen TEDBF getting edge of j35 in 2035-2040....so go with Naval AMCA

You can even carry 2 x Rudram 3 or Brahm0s NG under wings (Externally)

 

[AbRaj]

F35 Case -> 2-3 Squardons (36-54 jets) for ~5 Bn

We can't integrate
BRAHM0S NG
Rudram 1/2/3
Astra 1/2/3
Saaw bombs
Gaurav bombs

So separate 2-3 Bn for Aim 160 , Aim 9x , jassm missile , ARM missile & SDB etc.

SO in toto 7-8 Bn for becoming a puppet in americucks hand

If we get even a single glitch/hardware trouble in Radar , sensor & Engine then F35 will be grounded for months and will only see sky after we paying some Billions

Inshort its Saar we want to drop bombs on porkistan saar....pls alow us saaar...we ukraine of Asia saar....


Su 57 case -> We rejected it 8 years ago....Import lobby who is always ready to import substandard shit were unhappy with su57....How bad su57 should have been to get rejected by Import lobby


Imo we should cancel TEDBF and go with Naval AMCA.

IAF might induct ~200 AMCA (reported by ANI)
IN wants 145 Jets for 3 carriers

So in TOTO 345 (AMCA + Naval AMCA) this will bring down unit cost and we can have production rate of ~36 Jets/year

AMCA will come before TEDBF

Naval AMCA is capable of carrying 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in its IWB Which IMO is world class payload for STOBAR Aircraft carriers

BDL signed deal to produce sea breaker In india

IMO AMCA IWB & sea breaker are made for each other

View attachment 26207
View attachment 26208

In recent aeroindia ADA officials said PAYLOAD of AMCA IWB is 1,600 Kg....so 4 x Sea breaker antiship missile in IWB are perfect fit.....

no way current 4.5 gen TEDBF getting edge of j35 in 2035-2040....so go with Naval AMCA

You can even carry 2 x Rudram 3 or Brahm0s NG under wings (Externally)

Summary of the post above

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Slow down; make your point clearly. War is not breaking out tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Pakistan has no money to fight a war. Chinese have withdrawn to the east to face the might of America. That is the reason Chinese are quietly making peace calls to India. Never start believing propaganda. The Chinese fighter will always be second class.

I already made things clear. What is so fast & not clear to you?
People in 30s onwards with minimum a decade of industrial experience, should not pass blunt statements.
And China makes certain types of 3rd class exports but not for its domestic use. So whatever class Chinese are, we're the same & 10-20 years behind them in most if not every industrial domain.