AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Spitfire IX]

So if someone still wants to make Scrap AMCA/Import 5th-Gen, please provide which fighters are available to us,
1. F-22 -Nope
2. F-35 -No. Unless we become Puppet which is unlikely. US itself said that F-35 is never offered.
3. KF-21 - Not a 5th Gen
4. Su-57 - Not a 5th Gen
5. J-20 -Nope
6. TFX Kaan -Still a Monkey Model far from final version.
7. Rafale -Not a 5th Gen.

The question of 'when' comes into the matter as well. My guess is that AMCA Mk1 will not be delivered for at least 10 years, possibly nearer 15. Mk1 will be subject to US cooperation (or India becoming a US puppet, as you put it). Mk2 - if ever developed - will not go into production for at least 15 years IMO.

IAF may need to confront Pakistani J-31 in 5 years. China will likely have hundreds of 5G aircraft in a few years. How do you suggest IAF fields a credible air defence before AMCA Mk1 is delivered, possibly not until the late 2030's - or even later?

 

[sameer]

How about Su-75?
(I still want AMCA to succeed,after all how long will we just keep importing sheeit?)

Too many issues with Russia : payment issues due to sanctions and their engines are not reliable.

But have faith: I think once Trumpwa formally assumes power, the 414 deal can be sped up. He's a transactional deal-making type guy. All Mudi needs to do is massage his ego a little bit and give some more jizya(drone purchase or whatever).

At least, that'll remove some uncertainty/dilly-dally around the Mk1 project.

As for MK2, unless we get an engine partner, hard to say anything at all or if it will ever get developed.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Too many issues with Russia : payment issues due to sanctions and their engines are not reliable.

But have faith: I think once Trumpwa formally assumes power, the 414 deal can be sped up. He's a transactional deal-making type guy. All Mudi needs to do is massage his ego a little bit and give some more jizya(drone purchase or whatever).

At least, that'll remove some uncertainty/dilly-dally around the Mk1 project.

As for MK2, unless we get an engine partner, hard to say anything at all or if it will ever get developed.

At the start of 2024 GE's CEO said she expected the F414 deal to be signed before the end of the year. What would delay it?

There is no great urgency for AMCA since it is years behind schedule, so engines will not be needed. quickly. Is that a reason to string negotiations out? India is astonishingly slow at getting things done and wants to avoid risking delay to Tejas Mk2 testing through being too slow getting F404 production organised in India.

 

[Blademaster]

Scrape this project and get decent 5ht gen from external parties with made in India - this would save time, cost and bring peace

Are you a paid poster by the Chandigarh lobby?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

hope its not same mythical plasma stealth that Russia was supposedly working on last decade.

IDK much but Plasma means ionized gas & high temperature is needed to separate electrons from atoms.
That means additional tanks to carry Plasma producing material.
That also mean intentionally creating a fireball & engulfing the jet in it.
When Space Shuttle, Capsules, etc enter atmosphere, they are engulfed in plasma due to friction, during which time all RF communication is cut-off. That means the jet's radar & CNI antennas & sensors should not be blocked by plasma flow, especially when a fighter jet has to maneuver a lot.

In 1990s Discovery Channel documentaries there was mention of MHD ( Magneto Hydro Dynamics ) for use on Hypersonic rumored jets like Aurora, with plasma sprayer positioned on node tip, but the goal was to transform the sonic shock cone into parabolic curved envelope so that slightly wider airframe could be flown.

 

[Anants]

IDK much but Plasma means ionized gas & high temperature is needed to separate electrons from atoms.
That means additional tanks to carry Plasma producing material.
That also mean intentionally creating a fireball & engulfing the jet in it.
When Space Shuttle, Capsules, etc enter atmosphere, they are engulfed in plasma due to friction, during which time all RF communication is cut-off. That means the jet's radar & CNI antennas & sensors should not be blocked by plasma flow, especially when a fighter jet has to maneuver a lot.

In 1990s Discovery Channel documentaries there was mention of MHD ( Magneto Hydro Dynamics ) for use on Hypersonic rumored jets like Aurora, with plasma sprayer positioned on node tip, but the goal was to transform the sonic shock cone into parabolic curved envelope so that slightly wider airframe could be flown.

Yeah.. fly at hypersonic speeds and with some clever design you shall have plasma around you. Zircon and Kinzhal are rumored to employ this for evasion.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The question of 'when' comes into the matter as well. My guess is that AMCA Mk1 will not be delivered for at least 10 years, possibly nearer 15. Mk1 will be subject to US cooperation (or India becoming a US puppet, as you put it). Mk2 - if ever developed - will not go into production for at least 15 years IMO.

IAF may need to confront Pakistani J-31 in 5 years. China will likely have hundreds of 5G aircraft in a few years. How do you suggest IAF fields a credible air defence before AMCA Mk1 is delivered, possibly not until the late 2030's - or even later?

So when no new developed products like AMCA would be there, till then upgraded Su-30MKIs & Rafales have to hold the borders, possibly future F5 version. We'll have to procure more Rafale jets.
Pakistan doesn't panic us, but Chinese jets numbers both 4gen & 5gen is a concern. Its main focus IMO is on NE state of Arunachal Pradesh. If China attacks our NE before Taiwan war then it might trigger the latter also. Anyways, IMO we should also increase our SAMs in quantity & quality, especially the mobile ones.

 

[daya]

So when no new developed products like AMCA would be there, till then upgraded Su-30MKIs & Rafales have to hold the borders, possibly future F5 version. We'll have to procure more Rafale jets.
Pakistan doesn't panic us, but Chinese jets numbers both 4gen & 5gen is a concern. Its main focus IMO is on NE state of Arunachal Pradesh. If China attacks our NE before Taiwan war then it might trigger the latter also. Anyways, IMO we should also increase our SAMs in quantity & quality, especially the mobile ones.

But this is not known to our leadership.

 

[samsaptaka]

All Mudi needs to do is massage his ego a little bit and give some more jizya(drone purchase or whatever).

I really hope this jizya is not in the form of the WhAP killing Stryker deal

 

[Blademaster]

I really hope this jizya is not in the form of the WhAP killing Stryker deal

Modi has other ways to massage trumps ego for instance we do need more C-17 planes and C-130J with special features, and more P-8I planes and more CH-47 helicopters.

 

[shade2]

Modi has other ways to massage trumps ego for instance we do need more C-17 planes and C-130J with special features, and more P-8I planes and more CH-47 helicopters.

This is correct, we can do win-win purchases as compared to buying useless shit like Stryker, now that's jaziya

 

[Spitfire IX]

Modi has other ways to massage trumps ego for instance we do need more C-17 planes and C-130J with special features, and more P-8I planes and more CH-47 helicopters.

Forget C-17. Last one was produced in 2015.

 

[Blademaster]

Forget C-17. Last one was produced in 2015.

Buy them from current stocks at reduced prices?

 

[Nutcracker]

Buy them from current stocks at reduced prices?

Once production stops It becomes priced commodity.

 

[mcpo117]

hope its not same mythical plasma stealth that Russia was supposedly working on last decade.

Sangheili Active Camoflage. Wort!

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Once production stops It becomes priced commodity.

Might be possible to get 2-3 from Brits. They are inducting 22-25 A400Ms. 2 possibly from Kuwait because they don't really need them. Aussies, Canadians, Qataris won't sell any. 1-2 from UAE if we try hard. Yanks have 18 in reserve, might sell a few, might not. Depends on how far their replacement program has come.

 

[daya]

Might be possible to get 2-3 from Brits. They are inducting 22-25 A400Ms. 2 possibly from Kuwait because they don't really need them. Aussies, Canadians, Qataris won't sell any. 1-2 from UAE if we try hard. Yanks have 18 in reserve, might sell a few, might not. Depends on how far their replacement program has come.

Certain European country is going to discard fleet of 22-23 M-2000, that should be purchased.

 

[Nutcracker]

Certain European country is going to discard fleet of 22-23 M-2000, that should be purchased.

If much life isn't left in those airframes, They might prefer to just dump it in Cykraine.

 

[Bleh]

View: https://x.com/saurabhpatel059/status/1854855338362913050?t=pPh-ZB7_csEZsDwpBiWFHA&s=19

I don't get all the hate for AMCA development... It seems like our methodology was proven to be better than Pakistan's who rushed in a bunch of unprepared Jf-17s to fill in numbers, 130 Block 1s no BVR etc. & now half of their fleet is barely combat capable 3-legged cheetahs at half their service life already gone
Compared to that, we have 32 FOC standard aircrafts with more trainers flowing in & 14 Mark1A lined up. Within another year our Mark1A fleet will become larger than our FOC fleet & by the time their delivery is complete, fully prepared Mark2s will start flowing in.

We do not have a Chinese daddy to R&D the Block 3 for us. Let them cook.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

I don't get all the hate for AMCA development... It seems like our methodology was proven to be better than Pakistan's who rushed in a bunch of unprepared Jf-17s to fill in numbers, 130 Block 1s no BVR etc. & now half of their fleet is barely combat capable 3-legged cheetahs at half their service life already gone
Compared to that, we have 32 FOC standard aircrafts with more trainers flowing in & 14 Mark1A lined up. Within another year our Mark1A fleet will become larger than our FOC fleet & by the time their delivery is complete, fully prepared Mark2s will start flowing in.

We do not have a Chinese daddy to R&D the Block 3 for us. Let them cook.

I think the meme here is NAL's involvement.