AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[FalconSlayers]

Vinash kale vipreet buddhi

India’s stealth fighter jet steals Aero India show; who’ll make it?

The fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft plan has hit hiccups, with the government yet to finalise if state-run HAL or private giants should manufacture it

www.indiatoday.in

 

[ezsasa]

Vinash kale vipreet buddhi
View attachment 24954

India’s stealth fighter jet steals Aero India show; who’ll make it?

The fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft plan has hit hiccups, with the government yet to finalise if state-run HAL or private giants should manufacture it

www.indiatoday.in

HAL should start charging royalties from youtube and news media channels for making money at the expense of their credibility

 

[high_IQ_bharatiya_sainik]

Vinash kale vipreet buddhi
View attachment 24954

India’s stealth fighter jet steals Aero India show; who’ll make it?

The fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft plan has hit hiccups, with the government yet to finalise if state-run HAL or private giants should manufacture it

www.indiatoday.in

Lack of accountability on all fronts.
1. HAL's lethargic records is self explanatory.
2. IAF's import lobby, lack of foresight and inactive participation.
3. Not supporting each other in critical junctions. Eg. With already strained resources, we want a separate fighter for purely navy purposes for 80 odd orders. France being a developed country decided to go for one for scale and commonality. Any other sane country would have done the same ( read J35A, J35C).
4. Government's lackluster attitude: The only answer we have is "delay". GE F414 delayed? Let's delay the funding of MWF program! No private-public JV solution? Great let's delay the funds again and 'hope' there's a solution magically appearing 3 years later.
5. The top brasses on all fronts have the ego of a manchild. Is this an "us" problem? Even on this sub it's so evident how easy it is to rile one up.
6. रक्षा मंत्री ( )

 

[TumAapHum]

While the top tier of American/Europeans work for their own aerospace companies, best of Indians work for them too. You only get like third tiers to remain in India willing to work for government salary.

Its not fair to HAL/ADA that Indians keep demanding the best with third tiers resources.

 

[redpanda]

Vinash kale vipreet buddhi
View attachment 24954

India’s stealth fighter jet steals Aero India show; who’ll make it?

The fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft plan has hit hiccups, with the government yet to finalise if state-run HAL or private giants should manufacture it

www.indiatoday.in

HAL knows private players would leave the project if they stall it enough. So all this drama. They did same with the Tejas PPP plan. It's age old tactics eventually the government would be forced to let HAL do most of the work. While the project would get delayed by 5-6 years.

HAL is such a narrow minded organisation. It's not like they are not gonna be part of it. There is always public-private partnership. They can work with a private player and co-manufacture it. But nope, they want to do everything even with their horrible track record. Not denying they have the experience but they should learn to share it, because what is the point of that experience if it rots away without benefiting the country.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

They are supposed to be low cost and expendable compared to fighter jets.
If you try Making them larger, more faster, more manurable, more advance and power full avionics, more payload while still maintain stealth, you will basically end up with "unamanned/AI piloted" amca.
And unamanned capability for fighter jets is being developed.

Let's say one manned manned followed by two unmanned amca and 6-8 cats warriors form one singular unit.

5 fingers are different, Everybody can't examine beyond certain point, hence many companies get defunct, sold out. Many engineers also get fired.
> Adversaries are also developing all these tech, so how would we target their UAVs, that's the way we should think. Then we'll realize how enemy would attack our UAVs & we would require to protect them.
> UAVs are of differnt types but we on AMCA thread are specifically talking about Wingman UCAV fighter. A UCAV which cannot stay & fight along manned fighter can't be called a "wingman". So it needs to have same/identical profile.

> Western economy, industry, affordability, geography, geopolitics, coalation, global agenda, global bases & setup are different. We've none of those. Westen economies are much richer than ours. Their citizens use cars like we use bikes. Their village houses could be better than our middle income group houses. Our citizens purchase overbudgeted foreign made daily items by which they earn & fund their R&D.
Hence what they can think as expendable, we can't.
The WEST could be misleading the world on unprecedented scale by wrong depictions of CCAs. And it is perfectly fair bcoz espionage & hence misinformation war has always been there. Military can disclose very obvious things but not which others would normally take time to catch up.

> In future of improved SAMs, AAMs, IADS, that expendability would be = majority assured loss. it would be like a huge Charity or donation
You also said earlier that after 10-20yrs today's A-MCA might just be MCA as per then tech standards, right?
When F-22, F-117, B-2 were made, there were some people deadly against them. In every nation, on every project, there are always people on For/Against sides.
> By removing pilot, we reduce human loss, but threat to aircraft doesn't decrease.if you remove components like some sensor, EW antennas, countermeasures, weapons, or reduce considerably, then the threat level increases further & survivability decreases. UAVs become dependant on each other & hence handicapped.
So, Low cost = less features = more vulnerable. They will be like big cruise missiles waiting to be shot down. Same like a soldier with poor level of armor & weapons.
Defence is a costly matter & fighter jet is like racing car/bike. If we mix regular car/bike with them, we can't expect same performance obviously. It is like mixing stallions & donkeys.

The best Wingman UCAV is obviously unmanned version of manned fighter. Unmanned AMCA would be very good Wingman UCAV.
Light/Medium/Heavy, none carry any luxury items, every single component has utility for flight & fight.
In future, all UCAV are also supposed to be stealthy. A cruise missile can also be stealthy with big range.
But min size of manned jet & UCAV is governed by min payload, which whould be at least 2 BVR-AAMs + (2 CCMs or 4 VSR-CCMs) in worst case.


If not AMCA-UCAV then consider smallest jet fighter like LCA we have. Now imagine its UCAV version with stealth geometry, IWB, V-tail or tail-less. That's your ALCA-UCAV Wingman.
Removing pilot would also remove pilot associated things like cockpit instruments, OBOGS, ECS, etc, what else?


Why always we wait for world to do something 1st?

 

[Migflug]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slp7vjHxSDo&ab_channel=TarmakMediaHouse%23TMH

 

[randombully]

5 fingers are different, Everybody can't examine beyond certain point, hence many companies get defunct, sold out. Many engineers also get fired.
> Adversaries are also developing all these tech, so how would we target their UAVs, that's the way we should think. Then we'll realize how enemy would attack our UAVs & we would require to protect them.
> UAVs are of differnt types but we on AMCA thread are specifically talking about Wingman UCAV fighter. A UCAV which cannot stay & fight along manned fighter can't be called a "wingman". So it needs to have same/identical profile.

> Western economy, industry, affordability, geography, geopolitics, coalation, global agenda, global bases & setup are different. We've none of those. Westen economies are much richer than ours. Their citizens use cars like we use bikes. Their village houses could be better than our middle income group houses. Our citizens purchase overbudgeted foreign made daily items by which they earn & fund their R&D.
Hence what they can think as expendable, we can't.
The WEST could be misleading the world on unprecedented scale by wrong depictions of CCAs. And it is perfectly fair bcoz espionage & hence misinformation war has always been there. Military can disclose very obvious things but not which others would normally take time to catch up.

> In future of improved SAMs, AAMs, IADS, that expendability would be = majority assured loss. it would be like a huge Charity or donation
You also said earlier that after 10-20yrs today's A-MCA might just be MCA as per then tech standards, right?
When F-22, F-117, B-2 were made, there were some people deadly against them. In every nation, on every project, there are always people on For/Against sides.
> By removing pilot, we reduce human loss, but threat to aircraft doesn't decrease.if you remove components like some sensor, EW antennas, countermeasures, weapons, or reduce considerably, then the threat level increases further & survivability decreases. UAVs become dependant on each other & hence handicapped.
So, Low cost = less features = more vulnerable. They will be like big cruise missiles waiting to be shot down. Same like a soldier with poor level of armor & weapons.
Defence is a costly matter & fighter jet is like racing car/bike. If we mix regular car/bike with them, we can't expect same performance obviously. It is like mixing stallions & donkeys.

The best Wingman UCAV is obviously unmanned version of manned fighter. Unmanned AMCA would be very good Wingman UCAV.
Light/Medium/Heavy, none carry any luxury items, every single component has utility for flight & fight.
In future, all UCAV are also supposed to be stealthy. A cruise missile can also be stealthy with big range.
But min size of manned jet & UCAV is governed by min payload, which whould be at least 2 BVR-AAMs + (2 CCMs or 4 VSR-CCMs) in worst case.
View attachment 24960

If not AMCA-UCAV then consider smallest jet fighter like LCA we have. Now imagine its UCAV version with stealth geometry, IWB, V-tail or tail-less. That's your ALCA-UCAV Wingman.
Removing pilot would also remove pilot associated things like cockpit instruments, OBOGS, ECS, etc, what else?
View attachment 24955

Why always we wait for world to do something 1st?

View attachment 24958
View attachment 24959

We are working on big brother of cats warrior.
And larger ghatak drone.
Which will be between low cost cca's and expensive unamnned amca.

So we have that covered.
We have lowest end ccs( Abhimanyu from new space for navy), low end ccs( cats warrior), medium end( big brother of cats), high end ccs ( ghatak), top end ccs(unamanned amca)

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1889276833100923381/photo/1

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Opinions needed
<@146682054782877697>"
The """" """" are the questions I asked and the guy who answer these had a hand in jsf(f35) program.

Just a HAND means what exacty? His real name/ID not required but professional profile, what exactly he did on F-35???? Please share the link of portal where you asked.
You can ask well-qualified engineers of Northrop-Grumann & Boeing too who lost ATF & JSF competition, then what should we do, support LM guys or NG, Boeing guys? That's why i always tell, look at technology directly instead of who said what.
You asked in general or w.r.t. India? I already said about WEST Vs INDIA-

> Western economy, industry, affordability, geography, geopolitics, coalation, global agenda, global bases & setup are different. We've none of those. Westen economies are much richer than ours. Their citizens use cars like we use bikes. Their village houses could be better than our middle income group houses. Our citizens purchase overbudgeted foreign made daily items by which they earn & fund their R&D.
Hence what they can think as expendable, we can't.
The WEST could be misleading the world on unprecedented scale by wrong depictions of CCAs. And it is perfectly fair bcoz espionage & hence misinformation war has always been there. Military can disclose very obvious things but not which others would normally take time to catch up.

> In future of improved SAMs, AAMs, IADS, that expendability would be = majority assured loss. it would be like a huge Charity or donation

===============================================================

dunno where they're getting the idea that a design like that wouldn't be able to do high aoa or perform air combat maneuvering
but generally you don't need all of them to do that
not all UCAVs are created equal
some are multirole which means a reduction in capability in one aspect or another
EW/ISR/INT models don't need to do any of that

they would be more focused on endurance

and some a mixture of those

""""Look pretty small for endurance, plus can they keep with faster fighter jets?""""

some can
others don't need to
operationally you just need them to be in front and/or around the controller
that can be achieved with simple launch timing and formations
cruise missiles aren't supersonic either yet they hit targets at the same time as normal missiles

Don't get confused & dont confuse others. Clearing doubts is also an art. Ask precise questions in terms of PCM. Obviously, all types of UAVs dont require to be agile fighter, but we're talking specifically about Wingman UCAV profile which i explained multiple times incl. previous reply to you.
The person whom you asked didn't talk about aerodynamics like shadow area, intake low pressure, compressor stall, TWR>1 (Thrust to Weight Ratio) required for high AoA dogfight.

And most cruise missiles have been shot down in all current conflicts.
In our future conflicts it would depend how China & Pakistan would be prepared to defend against our subsonic cruise missiles, UAVs/UCAVs & jets. And how we'll be prepared to defend against their assets.

"""""But will larger cca's, with larger payload and speed and more powerful and advanced sensors have any place?
Ones that can use their own radar to lock on to the traget and fire the missile"""""

right now we're not really sure that they would because the whole idea of CCAs are for them to be attritable and mass produced
with that design we would essentially be making an unmanned fighter
and if we're gonna do that it's gonna come with all the bells and whistles

> Again, don't confuse others. How much exactly is your LARGER PAYLOAD & composed of which weapons exactly? Give breakup, like I already explained with table that Light stealth jet, manned or unammed, also needs some minimum payload. So just like the world made Light, Medium, Heavy class manned jets, they'll definitely make UCAVs in different size/weight also. Just wait & watch in coming decades.
The followig kind of advertisements are misleading, wont work. These UCAVs will have run away soon after firing their 2 AAMs.


But the right UCAV above with side intakes is an example of contnious airflow in high AoA also. It just needs some more IWB capacity for 6 total AAMs at least.

> Using accurate networked target info from various assets like chess pawns, as part of networked warfare, is 1 thing & making manned jet & Wingman UCAV dependent for sensors/weapons is another thing, making them helpless & handicapped when remote link/asset is down.

>Repeating- irrespective of size, UCAV Wingman is supposed to fly & fight along with & like manned leader jet. They'll be facing agile 4.5gen, 5.5gen jets.

 

[high_IQ_bharatiya_sainik]

Just a HAND means what exacty? His real name/ID not required but professional profile, what exactly he did on F-35???? Please share the link of portal where you asked.
You can ask well-qualified engineers of Northrop-Grumann & Boeing too who lost ATF & JSF competition, then what should we do, support LM guys or NG, Boeing guys? That's why i always tell, look at technology directly instead of who said what.
You asked in general or w.r.t. India? I already said about WEST Vs INDIA-


===============================================================


Don't get confused & dont confuse others. Clearing doubts is also an art. Ask precise questions in terms of PCM. Obviously, all types of UAVs dont require to be agile fighter, but we're talking specifically about Wingman UCAV profile which i explained multiple times incl. previous reply to you.
The person whom you asked didn't talk about aerodynamics like shadow area, intake low pressure, compressor stall, TWR>1 (Thrust to Weight Ratio) required for high AoA dogfight.
View attachment 24979
And most cruise missiles have been shot down in all current conflicts.
In our future conflicts it would depend how China & Pakistan would be prepared to defend against our subsonic cruise missiles, UAVs/UCAVs & jets. And how we'll be prepared to defend against their assets.


> Again, don't confuse others. How much exactly is your LARGER PAYLOAD & composed of which weapons exactly? Give breakup, like I already explained with table that Light stealth jet, manned or unammed, also needs some minimum payload. So just like the world made Light, Medium, Heavy class manned jets, they'll definitely make UCAVs in different size/weight also. Just wait & watch in coming decades.
The followig kind of advertisements are misleading, wont work. These UCAVs will have run away soon after firing their 2 AAMs.

View attachment 24980
But the right UCAV above with side intakes is an example of contnious airflow in high AoA also. It just needs some more IWB capacity for 6 total AAMs at least.

> Using accurate networked target info from various assets like chess pawns, as part of networked warfare, is 1 thing & making manned jet & Wingman UCAV dependent for sensors/weapons is another thing, making them helpless & handicapped when remote link/asset is down.

>Repeating- irrespective of size, UCAV Wingman is supposed to fly & fight along with & like manned leader jet. They'll be facing agile 4.5gen, 5.5gen jets.

Mate how do you find time to write these during Full time job at the ripe age of 40 with a family? I am jealous of you autistic uncle

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

We are working on big brother of cats warrior.
And larger ghatak drone.
Which will be between low cost cca's and expensive unamnned amca.

So we have that covered.
We have lowest end ccs( Abhimanyu from new space for navy), low end ccs( cats warrior), medium end( big brother of cats), high end ccs ( ghatak), top end ccs(unamanned amca)

On AMCA thread, lets talk only about Wingamn UCAVs category, which can fly & fight along AMCA.
Rest types can be discussed in UAV or CATS threads.
If future Wingman can fight & defeat 5.5gen & 4.5gen jets in most cases then fine otherwise waste of time, effort, money.
As examples -
NGAD CCA'll be expected to defeat MLUed F-22 & F-35 & certainly F-15/16/18.
Chinese UCAV like "Dark Sword" will be expected to defeat previous gen jets.
Same thing with Russian & European ones.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Mate how do you find time to write these during Full time job at the ripe age of 40 with a family? I am jealous of you autistic uncle

> IT professionals have work-from-home facility & in 40s everybody is not into continious production work, but managerial & semi-tech or conceptual work.
> I've a huge repository of pics, diagrams, etc so i don't have to search from scratch.
> I've been on many forums since years so i dont have to write too much either. many things are copy-paste with little edit.
> I complete office tasks, then continue to draft steadily.
> I watch news but not cricket, politics, Netflix, etc which most people do.
> My typing speed is fairly good.
> If you are jealous that's your personal problem but if you're calling elders as autistic, then you're the one with disorder. What if kids younger than you abuse you?
@SKC @Blademaster @Suryavanshi , other mods/admins, i request this member to be banned. He's abusing me on messages also.

 

[Azaad]

> IT professionals have work-from-home facility & in 40s everybody is not into continious production work, but managerial & semi-tech or conceptual work.
> I've a huge repository of pics, diagrams, etc so i don't have to search from scratch.
> I've been on many forums since years so i dont have to write too much either. many things are copy-paste with little edit.
> My typing speed is fairly good.
> If you are jealous that's your personal problem but if you're calling elders as autistic, then you're the one with disorder. What if kids younger than you abuse you?

@SKC @Blademaster @Suryavanshi , other mods/admins, i request this member to be banned. He's abusing me on messages also.

I second this suggestion. He's using the same MO as last time. Provoke a confrontation here & then fuel it on DMs.

He's a repeat offender & has made zero contributions to this forum unless provoking random people on the net & deriving perverse pleasure out of it is the ONLY reason he's here.

Requesting the administrators to do the needful.