Budget 2025

[pythonlover]

I don't really care either way but it makes zero sense. Was looking up for some comparisons and found out that our income tax emeption limits are now on par with UK and higher than Australia and Germany.

Income tax emeption limits by country;

Australia -> 18200 AUD (10 lakhs INR)
UK -> £ 12570 (13.5 lakhs INR)
Germany -> € 11604 (10.4 lankhs INR)

And a guy earning 10 lakhs INR objectively spends a better quality of life and purchases more than an avg Joe earning AUD 18200 in Australia.

Indian 'middle class' wallahs are possibly the most pampered lot in the world. No other nation would let a guy earning 5-6X the per capita income go tax free just cuz he whines and larps/cosplays as 'middle class' on SM.

What is worse is that some retards will still cook up a new issue and start whining on it from tomorrow onward.

If we are comparing consumption of private goods, then without doubt a person in India earning the same amount as a person in US is better off. However, people usually relate to govt with consumption of public goods. A person's impression of whether govt is performing good or bad (on any income level I think) and utilising the taxes paid properly usually relates to perceived delivery of public goods.

A person in Australia for eg, earning same income as a person in India may have lower private consumption, but however, he will have better access to good roads, clean atmosphere, better quality education, efficient govt institutions etc etc.

So when a person in India thinks about it, he believes that his taxes are going to waste even after paying nearly same rate of income tax (before tax cut) and GST. This is because he sees severe deficiencies in delivery of public goods. OTOH, a person in Australia will feel justified with the tax structure. This creates discontent in tax paying middle class.

 

[Jackprince]

I don't really care either way but it makes zero sense. Was looking up for some comparisons and found out that our income tax emeption limits are now on par with UK and higher than Australia and Germany.

Income tax exemption limits by country;

Australia -> 18200 AUD (10 lakhs INR)
UK -> £ 12570 (13.5 lakhs INR)
Germany -> € 11604 (10.4 lankhs INR)

And a guy earning 10 lakhs INR objectively spends a better quality of life and purchases more than an avg Joe earning AUD 18200 in Australia.

Indian 'middle class' wallahs are possibly the most pampered lot in the world. No other nation would let a guy earning 5-6X the per capita income go tax free just cuz he whines and larps/cosplays as 'middle class' on SM.

What is worse is that some retards will still cook up a new issue and start whining on it from tomorrow onward.

Direct tax actually throttles economic growth to an extent. A ₹100 passed into economy generates more tax than direct tax, because every transaction generates indirect tax. The extra money fuels consumption of the salaried class, which in turn fuels consumption in business class and lower income group. Ultimately the economy benefits in the long run.

Btw, the nations you mentioned all have very very good social security programmes that benefits the middle class. In India middle class doesn't enjoy any social security at all. The Indian middle class pays everything from their own pocket because the social security programmes like medical and education provided by the Govt in India is so below par that using money for better schooling and medical services is a given. So don't compare oranges and apples.

 

[crazywithmath]

If we are comparing consumption of private goods, then without doubt a person in India earning the same amount as a person in US is better off. However, people usually relate to govt with consumption of public goods. A person's impression of whether govt is performing good or bad (on any income level I think) and utilising the taxes paid properly usually relates to perceived delivery of public goods.

A person in Australia for eg, earning same income as a person in India may have lower private consumption, but however, he will have better access to good roads, clean atmosphere, better quality education, efficient govt institutions etc etc.

So when a person in India thinks about it, he believes that his taxes are going to waste even after paying nearly same rate of income tax (before tax cut) and GST. This is because he sees severe deficiencies in delivery of public goods. OTOH, a person in Australia will feel justified with the tax structure. This creates discontent in tax paying middle class.

We already have metrics to compare QoL and consumption (HDI and PPP). Pretty sure the guy earning 10.4 lakhs in India beats his Australian counterpart comfortably in both of them.

For the last time, 'Middle class' does not pay income taxes in India. Not in the new regime, at least.

You are,
1. Residing in a poorer country where the state capacity is low already.
2. Being pampered with zero income taxes.
3. And yet, expect the gormint to treat you the way some uber rich nation does.

Unrealistic expectation.

 

[Jackprince]

From today onward, won't abuse Tai for screwing with GST slabs and not lowering fuel prices. 'Middle class' had it coming.


@ezsasa , how are the personal income and corporate taxes being estimated in the budget? Have you gone through their estimates yet?

GST slabs are very very rational in India and more ideal than flat rate GST of many places. It focuses on the idea of progressive taxation where thise with money pays more tax for purchasing luxury items and poor people with basic needs pay 5% for daily necessary items. Only so called economists mindlessly trying to ape west finds fault in it.

Fuel price is already low. Also GST on fuel is not a subject of only central govt. Further, the price of fuel acts as a deterrent for over consumption which is a necessity for a nation that imports 85% of its fuel.

 

[concard]

All these concerns of taxes aside, I would be very happy if Central governments maintains inflation below 2% like developed countries do. This makes sure people don't lose purchasing power every year on account of inflation which hovers around 4-5% every year in our country. In cities the cost of everything is going up without any sign they will ever stop. Unless we stop every freebie apart from the only necessary ones, it will be difficult to reign in inflation below 3%.

 

[crazywithmath]

Direct tax actually throttles economic growth to an extent. A ₹100 passed into economy generates more tax than direct tax, because every transaction generates indirect tax. The extra money fuels consumption of the salaried class, which in turn fuels consumption in business class and lower income group. Ultimately the economy benefits in the long run.

This is still only a theory which I do not agree or disagree with. We will see how the 'consumption' bit plays out.

Btw, the nations you mentioned all have very very good social security programmes that benefits the middle class. In India middle class doesn't enjoy any social security at all.

We have been through this before. Indian 'middle class' can expect similar benefits the day they start paying taxes (talking about folks belonging to the 50-80 th percentile of the income pyramid, not the social media middle class).

 

[ezsasa]

From today onward, won't abuse Tai for screwing with GST slabs and not lowering fuel prices. 'Middle class' had it coming.


@ezsasa , how are the personal income and corporate taxes being estimated in the budget? Have you gone through their estimates yet?

in the fin ministry PC a few hours ago, their calculation is that double digit increase in income tax collection past few years have given them buoyancy in direct taxes, which was used for this tax revenue forgone.

and yet, budget document shows they expect an increase of 3-4 lakh crores in tax revenue.

 

[crazywithmath]

All these concerns of taxes aside, I would be very happy if Central governments maintains inflation below 2% like developed countries do. This makes sure people don't lose purchasing power every year on account of inflation which hovers around 4-5% every year in our country. In cities the cost of everything is going up without any sign they will ever stop. Unless we stop every freebie apart from the only necessary ones, it will be difficult to reign in inflation below 3%.

An inflation below 4% would be catastrophic in India - that is borderline deflation for an emerging economy. Indonesia has low inflation and look how they turned out.

 

[ezsasa]

All these concerns of taxes aside, I would be very happy if Central governments maintains inflation below 2% like developed countries do. This makes sure people don't lose purchasing power every year on account of inflation which hovers around 4-5% every year in our country. In cities the cost of everything is going up without any sign they will ever stop. Unless we stop every freebie apart from the only necessary ones, it will be difficult to reign in inflation below 3%.

inflation is being deliberately kept between 4-6% band as a matter of policy, this gormint talked about this quite extensively in their first term. if and when accelerated GDP growth rate is not needed, only then gormint of the day will take measures to bring down inflation.

and the current gormint is spending a lot of money to be with in the band, on infra side agri cold chain networks, on staples side free food grains.

 

[Azaad]

An inflation below 4% would be catastrophic in India - that is borderline deflation for an emerging economy. Indonesia has low inflation and look how they turned out.

China actually doesn't have any food inflation & it imports both a good amount of its foodstuff as well as energy.

Arguably this is how they manage their population by providing them jobs aimed primarily at exports & low pricing for essential commodities & they've been at it for decades.

How exactly have they managed to boost their economy , their exports, infrastructure & real estate sector spending notwithstanding ?

 

[crazywithmath]

GST slabs are very very rational in India and more ideal than flat rate GST of many places. It focuses on the idea of progressive taxation where thise with money pays more tax for purchasing luxury items and poor people with basic needs pay 5% for daily necessary items. Only so called economists mindlessly trying to ape west finds fault in it.

Not all the products are being treated rationally. Raising GST on used cars made no sense (gormint shd ideally opt for lower GST on used cars to create a large market for them which would in turn facilitate a larger market for new cars). Same holds true for their GST slab differences over different kinds of pop corns etc.

Them tinkering with slabs and maximizing short term tax gains over long term economic benefits also empower the babudom to go after and harass smaller bizmen over minor disputes on product classification etc (which can be totally subjective).

Fuel price is already low. Also GST on fuel is not a subject of only central govt. Further, the price of fuel acts as a deterrent for over consumption which is a necessity for a nation that imports 85% of its fuel.

OMCs are raking in record breaking profits because of low crude prices. It is only natural to expect the gormint to pass out the benefits to the consumers. Indian fuel prices DO NOT grow in agreement with global prices. Heck, oil PSUs have started ceding market shares to Reliance because Reliance is selling at lower prices.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Correct, if you earn 12.75LPA, you pay 0 taxes, but if you earn 13LPA, you will pay a tax of more than 60K!!

is this thing valid as of now under the current new tax regime for 7 LPA?

 

[ezsasa]

just the other day, one of my aunts said someone has come to their apartment complex to geo tag their house.

jyotiraditya scindia on India today just now, is saying India post is geo-tagging homes to give them digital address, which is linked to FM's announcement of expanding India post into logistics.

so that's one mystery solved for me.

 

[Azaad]

just the other day, one of my aunts said someone has come to their apartment complex to geo tag their house.

jyotiraditya scindia on India today just now, is saying India post is geo-tagging homes to give them digital address, which is linked to FM's announcement of expanding India post into logistics.

so that's one mystery solved for me.

How does it work ?

 

[Migflug]

is this thing valid as of now under the current new tax regime for 7 LPA?

Will be valid from next FY !

 

[ezsasa]

How does it work ?

i am assuming..

just like a door number, there would be a unique ID with latitude and longitude with in. for door delivery, we can give that unique ID instead of writing the entire address.

i suppose, the delivery wallah can find the route using google maps or other map software to get to the destination.

had checked the SOPs of these survey teams the other day, one of their check lists is to go on to the terrace and record GPS co-ordinates with their phones, with a instruction to make sure they are not recording back of the house instead of front of the house.

 

[pythonlover]

We already have metrics to compare QoL and consumption (HDI and PPP). Pretty sure the guy earning 10.4 lakhs in India beats his Australian counterpart comfortably in both of them.

For the last time, 'Middle class' does not pay income taxes in India. Not in the new regime, at least.

You are,
1. Residing in a poorer country where the state capacity is low already.
2. Being pampered with zero income taxes.
3. And yet, expect the gormint to treat you the way some uber rich nation does.

Unrealistic expectation.

The crux of my argument was :

1. Australian pays tax => gets decent benefits from govt in return => feels taxes are justified.
2. Indian pays tax => receives inferior quality benefits from govt + has to bribe everywhere + most benefits accrue to non-tax paying section in form of freebies & subsidies => feels what am I paying taxes for? => feels taxes are high.

Your all 3 points are correct after recent tax cut. However, expectation is not to get same quality of services as developed nation despite paying similar taxes. Expectation is to get at least decent quality services (especially police and judiciary, which build people's trust) and not having to bribe everywhere.

 

[ezsasa]

Friendship ended with RonaDhona gang!

Nirmala Tai is my new friend!

Tai for for our next PM!

kya pata

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1885689113933926731

 

[Suryavanshi]

China actually doesn't have any food inflation & it imports both a good amount of its foodstuff as well as energy.

Arguably this is how they manage their population by providing them jobs aimed primarily at exports & low pricing for essential commodities & they've been at it for decades.

How exactly have they managed to boost their economy , their exports, infrastructure & real estate sector spending notwithstanding ?

There is a theory that China actually has less population than it projects and the true consequences of 1 child policy is hidden from the public eye.

Hence why they introduced 1 trillion to bail out their industry and saving what remains of the already ailing Real estate sector.

While consumption per capita increases the absolute number of people putting orders does not far outstrips the supply YoY.

China has a history of forcing a certain change in the society whose consequences are so quickly cashed out that they cannot be fixed.

 

[Suryavanshi]

just the other day, one of my aunts said someone has come to their apartment complex to geo tag their house.

jyotiraditya scindia on India today just now, is saying India post is geo-tagging homes to give them digital address, which is linked to FM's announcement of expanding India post into logistics.

so that's one mystery solved for me.

Based! geo tagging has a lot of uses. Drone delivery, property registration and security.

This is what I'm saying gormint has a plan we are just not patient enough.