Chit Chat

SKC said:
If I say: "I Love Kadhi Chawal"

That does not mean - "I hate Rajma Chawal"

I can love both things concurrently!

So, what you mentioned about dargas can happen in parallel with this Gurus problem we have in Hindu society!

I dont see any issue with Alcohol and Meat being offered in multiple Temples. Even till 1950-60s we were having animal sacrifices and meat being distributed as prasad in many temples during various occasions.
Those are the rituals specific to those temples.

The temples which don't have these rituals will follow the strict Vegetation route for the prasadam.​
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It'd please you to know the SC had virtually banned animal sacrifices at Hindu shrines. That it's still happening is in violation of such laws.

This is also known as the Vaishnavikaran of Sanatan Dharma & is being opposed by large sections of Hindu society especially those whose beliefs are directly impacted by this judgement.

This is the reason I've written earlier let's focus our attention on issues which really matter.
 
SKC said:
If he riled up Mullas of his time, then how come he is the only so-called Hindu Guru/God whose pic they keep in their houses and shops and workplaces??​
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Actually Mulaahs use to beat up their fellas who kept Photos. There is an incident mentioned around same. Photos of Saints are BANNED in Islam - no exception. Muslim keeping photos is akin to Muslim women wearing mangalsutra.
 
Anants said:
True but even when he was alive. Conch shells were blown, Artis and Kirtan were held in Masjid. Hindu festivals were started in Masjid By Baba - inspite Muslim opposition. Muslims also visited him. Just Ramkrishna Paramhansa, Ramanna maharishi had Muslim devotees..

OT: Azaad read about Sri M. Its one of the strangest account where a Muslim born to Pathaan family became a Yogi
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Who's Sri M ? Never heard of him
 
Anants said:
Actually Mulaahs use to beat up their fellas who kept Photos. There is an incident mentioned around same. Photos of Saints are BANNED in Islam - no exception. Muslim keeping photos is akin to Muslim women wearing mangalsutra.
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Sai had decent following until 80 to 90s when Arabs begin to funnel money into India and Hindu muslim relation in general detoriated.
Also said wasn't famous in North India until a few decades ago but now I see a dozen sai temple in evey major city. They are well funded I guess
 
Anants said:
Actually Mulaahs use to beat up their fellas who kept Photos. There is an incident mentioned around same. Photos of Saints are BANNED in Islam - no exception. Muslim keeping photos is akin to Muslim women wearing mangalsutra.
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You have to open your eyes and you will find enough Ms who keep his pic in their places. They have multiple photos of different things in their homes. Not everything is banned or haram!​
 
Suryavanshi said:
I will give you an account of why I am skeptic of the whole nath and baba system later.
I have a very genuine reason to stand against them.
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Sorry Suryavanshi then you are wrong. Nath yogis are integral to west and North west India. I take all stands with pinch of salt unless someone is of authority and brings facts on table. Naths fought for preservation of Hinduism in dire times. People rever them. Now what every may your belief.. wont alter belief of people here.
 
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Anants said:
Mate I am 1 IQ fella
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Mate you seem to have taken this in the wrong way, it wasn't aimed at you.
I already know you are well versed in topics you speak out for, my statement is more focused on those who are behave like Jessus bhakt to any skeptic arguments towards the divinity of Sai baba and his place in Hindu theology.

Creating a rift among hindu is the last thing on my mind.
 
Suryavanshi said:
@Anants do you have contemporary sources in favor of Sai baba
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I verified some of the claims like Bal Gangadhar. Swami Tembe. Multiple articles, books are available written in those times written by various devotees but in Marathi. I could only grab a book of Sai Satcharitra written by his devote 'Hemadipant' Dabolkar - who was a resident magistrate wrote a short stories out Sai baba he witnessed. This book was initiated in 1922 and completed in 1926. Sai baba left his body in 1918
 
SKC said:
You have to open your eyes and you will find enough Ms who keep his pic in their places. They have multiple photos of different things in their homes. Not everything is banned or haram!​
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Thats what I am saying from puritanical Islamic view point - Images are banned. There is story where a Muslim Devotee kept picture of Sai baba. Some relative of his came to know and immediately sort to dispose all photos hanging in home - lest he earn ire from fanatic Haji baba of Bombay. Muslim devotee was so attached to Sai that he could not bear thought of his photo getting destroyed - so he gave the photo a Hindu devotee - so that it could be preserved.

Sai Baba called Masjid as Dwarkamayi, Masjidmayi or Dawarkamati. Said DawarkaMayi was true resident of Masjid who takes care of Devotees. DO you think Muslim would refer to Masjid as residence of Goddess ? Even head priest of Sapta Shringi Peeth in Mahrastra was ordained by Devi in Darshan to meet Sai to get Spiritual direction.
 
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Azaad said:
I'd advise focus on Hindus visiting Dargahs like those in Ajmer , Nizamuddin , etc. Their own history books have revealed these Sufis particularly Moinuddin Chisti , were here to further Islamic conquests mass massacres loot taking women as sex slaves , children as slaves , conversion & utter destruction of Sanatan Dharma & society.

At least you won't find any of these in case Shirdi Sai Baba. Let's gather ourselves to identify & purge the true enemies within rather than expend our energies in creating fissures where none exist.

As far as other practices go I wonder how many of you've been to Shaktipeeths where alcohol and / or animal sacrifice is a must as an offering & meat is offered as prasad. Then there are places in India where the buffalo is sacrificed during Dusshera among certain Hindu communities & the consecrated meat is cooked & distributed as prasad.

These tantric / shakta practises are known as tamasic or Vamachari practises by the orthodoxy. What are we going to do with these practices assuming they interfere with one's own beliefs & modes of practice ?
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Yes y'all need unity to combat the green tide, you don't need a modern edition of Vaishnav vs Shaiv today.

Y'all do need to do something tho to focus worship back to your gods instead of some babas or gurus, at the current rate the time will come where people are bigger devotees of their babas rather than the proper gods.

Like these babas could give sekoolar and casteist pravachans to break unity for example.
 
Suryavanshi said:
Mate you seem to have taken this in the wrong way, it wasn't aimed at you.
I already know you are well versed in topics you speak out for, my statement is more focused on those who are behave like Jessus bhakt to any skeptic arguments towards the divinity of Sai baba and his place in Hindu theology.

Creating a rift among hindu is the last thing on my mind.
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skepticism is fine. but there should be substance to it. Not wild sweeping statements like worshipping Guru is against Santana system - is not going to curry any favor. Gurus are very much revered since time immemorial.
 
SKC said:
You have to open your eyes and you will find enough Ms who keep his pic in their places. They have multiple photos of different things in their homes. Not everything is banned or haram!​
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It is banned and haram by mullahs, but the greens you mention choose to ignore it ofc.
 
shade2 said:
Yes y'all need unity to combat the green tide, you don't need a modern edition of Vaishnav vs Shaiv today.

Y'all do need to do something tho to focus worship back to your gods instead of some babas or gurus, at the current rate the time will come where people are bigger devotees of their babas rather than the proper gods.

Like these babas could give sekoolar and casteist pravachans to break unity for example.
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Shade you dont know about it. Vaishnavites reject Half of Hindu dieties. They are Hindu version of Catholicism. Thats why you see many orthodox catholics finding easy to follow vaishnavite philosophy .. like Isckon. Unlike Advaita Vedanta unity - they believe in distinction between Creator and its Creation.

So Called Various Babas and Gurus actually reignited Hindu faith in corners of country where it was nearly extinguished due to invasions. They are integral part of faith. One must make difference between fake and genuine.
 
God's in Hinduism are HARIHARA , Maa SHAKTI and their different forms & their family.....

It's not allowed to even keep portrait of ones own's departed ancestors together with God's portrait....

How can one place some baba's statue in devalayam "temple" of Hindu god ?

Everything has a place and they should be kept in that place !......

If one wants to worship baba then they should do it only in worship places(ashram) which are only for babas not in Hindu temples.....

Hindu temples are only for HINDU GODS 🕉 Let our temples be pure....
Is baba a sanskrit word ? ..... No it isn't....
Was baba word used in any VEDA'S ?.......No it was never used.....
Was baba word used in pre invaded BHARAT ?.....No
Is BABA known to people of every corner of BHARAT ?.....No he isn't......

his statues should be placed alongside of HINDU God's....

That generation called him Manush....
This generation is calling him Guru...
If hindus ignore this "silent invasion" of sanathana dharma Next generation might call him God

Conclusion: Hindus shouldn't let Baba's statue to enter Hindu Temples 🕉
 
Suryavanshi said:
I will give you an account of why I am skeptic of the whole nath and baba system later.
I have a very genuine reason to stand against them.
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Nath Sampraday was a sect with anti nomian shades to it . In fact there's speculation they were originally Buddhists . In any case they are at an intersection of Buddhism Shaivism & Yoga especially Hath Yoga in their practises & some of the Nav Naths or 9 Masters has references to them being Siddhas or realised souls in both Buddhism & Shaivism sources.

Muslim Sufis too derived inspiration from them & adopted their practices namely Yoga.

The orthodoxy always looked down on them , hence Gorakh dhanda. I could go on but trust this small primer from memory should suffice. Nowadays the internet is there if one wants a deep dive into the subject a luxury which wasn't available while I was growing up.
shade2 said:
Yes y'all need unity to combat the green tide, you don't need a modern edition of Vaishnav vs Shaiv today.
Click to expand...

shade2 said:
Y'all do need to do something tho to focus worship back to your gods instead of some babas or gurus, at the current rate the time will come where people are bigger devotees of their babas rather than the proper gods.
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Then I'm afraid you don't know much about Sanatan Dharma which has survived till date only because of such babas.

shade2 said:
Like these babas could give sekoolar and casteist pravachans to break unity for example.
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One of the hazards of a belief system which rests on the shoulders of God men which I'm sure you'd agree is not exclusive to Hinduism.

Look west towards Iran & you'd see what the clerics themselves babas for want of a better word are indulging in or the clerics in Saudia.

You look further west , at the list of Il Papas who graced the Vatican & their antics in ancient & mediaeval times & you'd know what I'm referring to , arguably one of the reasons Roman Catholicism saw the birth & rise of Protestant reformation & split within itself.
 
AGNI 6 ICBM said:
God's in Hinduism are HARIHARA , Maa SHAKTI and their different forms & their family.....

It's not allowed to even keep portrait of ones own's departed ancestors together with God's portrait....

How can one place some baba's statue in devalayam "temple" of Hindu god ?

Everything has a place and they should be kept in that place !......

If one wants to worship baba then they should do it only in worship places(ashram) which are only for babas not in Hindu temples.....

Hindu temples are only for HINDU GODS 🕉 Let our temples be pure....
Is baba a sanskrit word ? ..... No it isn't....
Was baba word used in any VEDA'S ?.......No it was never used.....
Was baba word used in pre invaded BHARAT ?.....No
Is BABA known to people of every corner of BHARAT ?.....No he isn't......

his statues should be placed alongside of HINDU God's....

That generation called him Manush....
This generation is calling him Guru...
If hindus ignore this "silent invasion" of sanathana dharma Next generation might call him God

Conclusion: Hindus shouldn't let Baba's status enter into Hindu Temples 🕉
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Baba is very common word used in North India for Yogis and even Sai for Bhagwan especially during Bhakti Movement by Hindus.

Here famous Kirtan by Bhakt Tulsidas refers to Ram/Bhagwan as Sai.
View: https://open.spotify.com/track/5n0sHQjWMJjus66QcQjWge
 
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