I verified some of the claims like Bal Gangadhar. Swami Tembe. Multiple articles, books are available written in those times written by various devotees but in Marathi. I could only grab a book of Sai Satcharitra written by his devote 'Hemadipant' Dabolkar - who was a resident magistrate wrote a short stories out Sai baba he witnessed. This book was initiated in 1922 and completed in 1926. Sai baba left his body in 1918
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Thats what I am saying from puritanical Islamic view point - Images are banned. There is story where a Muslim Devotee kept picture of Sai baba. Some relative of his came to know and immediately sort to dispose all photos hanging in home - lest he earn ire from fanatic Haji baba of Bombay. Muslim devotee was so attached to Sai that he could not bear thought of his photo getting destroyed - so he gave the photo a Hindu devotee - so that it could be preserved.
Sai Baba called Masjid as Dwarkamayi, Masjidmayi or Dawarkamati. Said DawarkaMayi was true resident of Masjid who takes care of Devotees. DO you think Muslim would refer to Masjid as residence of Goddess ? Even head priest of Sapta Shringi Peeth in Mahrastra was ordained by Devi in Darshan to meet Sai to get Spiritual direction.
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Yes y'all need unity to combat the green tide, you don't need a modern edition of Vaishnav vs Shaiv today.
Y'all do need to do something tho to focus worship back to your gods instead of some babas or gurus, at the current rate the time will come where people are bigger devotees of their babas rather than the proper gods.
Like these babas could give sekoolar and casteist pravachans to break unity for example.
skepticism is fine. but there should be substance to it. Not wild sweeping statements like worshipping Guru is against Santana system - is not going to curry any favor. Gurus are very much revered since time immemorial.
Shade you dont know about it. Vaishnavites reject Half of Hindu dieties. They are Hindu version of Catholicism. Thats why you see many orthodox catholics finding easy to follow vaishnavite philosophy .. like Isckon. Unlike Advaita Vedanta unity - they believe in distinction between Creator and its Creation.
So Called Various Babas and Gurus actually reignited Hindu faith in corners of country where it was nearly extinguished due to invasions. They are integral part of faith. One must make difference between fake and genuine.
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God's in Hinduism are HARIHARA , Maa SHAKTI and their different forms & their family.....
It's not allowed to even keep portrait of ones own's departed ancestors together with God's portrait....
How can one place some baba's statue in devalayam "temple" of Hindu god ?
Everything has a place and they should be kept in that place !......
If one wants to worship baba then they should do it only in worship places(ashram) which are only for babas not in Hindu temples.....
Hindu temples are only for HINDU GODS 🕉 Let our temples be pure....
Is baba a sanskrit word ? ..... No it isn't....
Was baba word used in any VEDA'S ?.......No it was never used.....
Was baba word used in pre invaded BHARAT ?.....No
Is BABA known to people of every corner of BHARAT ?.....No he isn't......
his statues should be placed alongside of HINDU God's....
That generation called him Manush....
This generation is calling him Guru...
If hindus ignore this "silent invasion" of sanathana dharma Next generation might call him God
Conclusion: Hindus shouldn't let Baba's statue to enter Hindu Temples 🕉
It's not allowed to even keep portrait of ones own's departed ancestors together with God's portrait....
How can one place some baba's statue in devalayam "temple" of Hindu god ?
Everything has a place and they should be kept in that place !......
If one wants to worship baba then they should do it only in worship places(ashram) which are only for babas not in Hindu temples.....
Hindu temples are only for HINDU GODS 🕉 Let our temples be pure....
Is baba a sanskrit word ? ..... No it isn't....
Was baba word used in any VEDA'S ?.......No it was never used.....
Was baba word used in pre invaded BHARAT ?.....No
Is BABA known to people of every corner of BHARAT ?.....No he isn't......
his statues should be placed alongside of HINDU God's....
That generation called him Manush....
This generation is calling him Guru...
If hindus ignore this "silent invasion" of sanathana dharma Next generation might call him God
Conclusion: Hindus shouldn't let Baba's statue to enter Hindu Temples 🕉
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Nath Sampraday was a sect with anti nomian shades to it . In fact there's speculation they were originally Buddhists . In any case they are at an intersection of Buddhism Shaivism & Yoga especially Hath Yoga in their practises & some of the Nav Naths or 9 Masters has references to them being Siddhas or realised souls in both Buddhism & Shaivism sources.
Muslim Sufis too derived inspiration from them & adopted their practices namely Yoga.
The orthodoxy always looked down on them , hence Gorakh dhanda. I could go on but trust this small primer from memory should suffice. Nowadays the internet is there if one wants a deep dive into the subject a luxury which wasn't available while I was growing up.
Then I'm afraid you don't know much about Sanatan Dharma which has survived till date only because of such babas.
One of the hazards of a belief system which rests on the shoulders of God men which I'm sure you'd agree is not exclusive to Hinduism.
Look west towards Iran & you'd see what the clerics themselves babas for want of a better word are indulging in or the clerics in Saudia.
You look further west , at the list of Il Papas who graced the Vatican & their antics in ancient & mediaeval times & you'd know what I'm referring to , arguably one of the reasons Roman Catholicism saw the birth & rise of Protestant reformation & split within itself.
Baba is very common word used in North India for Yogis and even Sai for Bhagwan especially during Bhakti Movement by Hindus.
Here famous Kirtan by Bhakt Tulsidas refers to Ram/Bhagwan as Sai.
View: https://open.spotify.com/track/5n0sHQjWMJjus66QcQjWge
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Both Baba & Sai / Saeen are Persian words
right. Baba came into lexicon much before Islam in India. Sai with Persian influence.
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मनोबुद्ध्यहङ्कार चित्तानि नाहं
न च श्रोत्रजिह्वे न च घ्राणनेत्रे ।
न च व्योम भूमिर्न तेजो न वायुः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥१॥
न च प्राणसंज्ञो न वै पञ्चवायुः
न वा सप्तधातुः न वा पञ्चकोशः ।
न वाक्पाणिपादं न चोपस्थपायु
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥२॥
न मे द्वेषरागौ न मे लोभमोहौ
मदो नैव मे नैव मात्सर्यभावः ।
न धर्मो न चार्थो न कामो न मोक्षः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥३॥
न पुण्यं न पापं न सौख्यं न दुःखं
न मन्त्रो न तीर्थं न वेदा न यज्ञाः ।
अहं भोजनं नैव भोज्यं न भोक्ता
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥४॥
न मृत्युर्न शङ्का न मे जातिभेदः
पिता नैव मे नैव माता न जन्मः ।
न बन्धुर्न मित्रं गुरुर्नैव शिष्यं
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥५॥
अहं निर्विकल्पो निराकाररूपो
विभुत्वाच्च सर्वत्र सर्वेन्द्रियाणाम् ।
न चासङ्गतं नैव मुक्तिर्न मेयः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥६॥
न च श्रोत्रजिह्वे न च घ्राणनेत्रे ।
न च व्योम भूमिर्न तेजो न वायुः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥१॥
न च प्राणसंज्ञो न वै पञ्चवायुः
न वा सप्तधातुः न वा पञ्चकोशः ।
न वाक्पाणिपादं न चोपस्थपायु
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥२॥
न मे द्वेषरागौ न मे लोभमोहौ
मदो नैव मे नैव मात्सर्यभावः ।
न धर्मो न चार्थो न कामो न मोक्षः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥३॥
न पुण्यं न पापं न सौख्यं न दुःखं
न मन्त्रो न तीर्थं न वेदा न यज्ञाः ।
अहं भोजनं नैव भोज्यं न भोक्ता
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥४॥
न मृत्युर्न शङ्का न मे जातिभेदः
पिता नैव मे नैव माता न जन्मः ।
न बन्धुर्न मित्रं गुरुर्नैव शिष्यं
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥५॥
अहं निर्विकल्पो निराकाररूपो
विभुत्वाच्च सर्वत्र सर्वेन्द्रियाणाम् ।
न चासङ्गतं नैव मुक्तिर्न मेयः
चिदानन्दरूपः शिवोऽहम् शिवोऽहम् ॥६॥
Shaivites also do the same, good either is not mainstream any more.
Except Lingayats i guess and ISKCON for the vaishav side.
In the current times y'all don't have the luxury for infighting over theological stuff.
The babas you seem to describe seem to be like how our monks were in the past in these gora countries, and one very prominent Hindu example i can think of is the Adi Shankararcharya.
What i am describing are these "godmen" types.
Because next they will have temples exclusively for xyz baba.
Cult devotees of the baba will then be egged on to not identify as Hindus.
You guys would have the same effect as that one news article i read about Khali Khopdis getting inside a Sindhi temple and telling the folks there to either remove the idols of their gods or they take the GGS with them, because keeping the GGS next to Hindu god idols is absolutely haram apparently.
I do not want additional division in the country we already have enough caste kangz and language kangz, don't want more muh god kangz or muh baba kangz in the mix.
Godmen types only are agents to promote more division in that context if they throw in their lot with BIF
After the Catholic-Orthodox split the Orthos/Greeks got badly banged by Arab greens and finally by Ottoman greens, Russia somehow became powerful and started fighting Othmans boys and that is how Serbia/Greece etc are still Ortho.
However none of this would have happened if the Church didn't split in two.
Greens are waiting, Chinks are waiting, Westoids are waiting to exploit more opportunities, don't give them such chances is what i am trying to say.
Now Shade you are on the right Track Mate, This is exactly my thought behind this debate. Mate I had discussions with Isckon and hard core christians on this. Not that I did on converting anyone - but making them see that they are talking about same thing as other - its just different perspective and representation.
Just like when people started think about Atoms, they had various Models proposed. And till date no one has conlusive idea about final structure. All models help in explaining one or other property exhibited by system. Like student of Sciene you examine every thing with cool mind and base you own journey further on the basis of previous findings. Veda is also science - study everything Calmly.
Yogis are like Scientists. Case in Point take Shri Ramakrishna - when he achieved Enlightenment - he had deep desire find out whether Christian and Moslems also experienced same truth? And like a scientist he went on to get the proof by worshipping himself as a Christian and then as Muslim separately - and he found that he reached same final destination. This is the real G.U.T(Grand Unification Theory).
Like Blind men of Hindoostan and Elephant. Each Sects have different perspective - have some truth but still cant figure out about elephant
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Sai baba is considered more like a Guru than god.
He is worshipped on Gurupurnima and Dussehra.
Dussehra because he left on that day and gurupurnima cause as i said he is considered as a guru.
Many Sant and Gurus are worshipped in Maharashtra like Akkalkot Swami Samarth.
I have read sai charitra and there are stories mentioning how Sai baba encouraged his devotees to read Hindu holy books , there is one particular incident is described where Sai baba saved a suicidal devotee by instructing him to read Vishnu sashranam.
The pratha of doing aarti was started by his devotees when Sai baba was alive , there was no objection by Sai baba.
I feel there is bias against sai baba just because he dressed as a pir and said Allah malik.
His life does not indicate any favor towards Muslims or its customs or any effort to divert hindus from their religion.
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Ah a man of culture I see.
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Me in the cross roads of career change. Tried my hand on Front end dev. But no job opportunity is coming since I am Data Analyst by role and this is basically an major domain switch. Even in the same stream pretty much big confusion which needs to be followed.
Like Data Engineer, Cloud Engineer, ML Engineer or which technologies like AWS, GCP and Azure.
Felt like a major let down sometimes. But getting into an flow is becoming difficult due to multitude of paths.
Any suggestions will be welcomed.
Like Data Engineer, Cloud Engineer, ML Engineer or which technologies like AWS, GCP and Azure.
Felt like a major let down sometimes. But getting into an flow is becoming difficult due to multitude of paths.
Any suggestions will be welcomed.
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