DRDO and PSU's

Hawkeye said:
I guess we still have ways to go to achieve parity in some of above points. Americans were able to juice out the basic single pulse AMRAAM to 160km and I believe they are still trying to juice out more out from the basic form factor.
We should ideally see continuous improvement in the basic Astra mk-1 design and subsequently mk-2 dual pulse design as well.
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Will they keep on working on it to advance astra mk1&2 ? Ig they will put all resources in mk3.
 
Let's talk about our favourite PSU...Advanced Weapons and Equipment India Limited or AWEIL.

AWEIL employs a workforce of almost 14,000 people.
To put that into perspective, SIG Sauer employs 3,200 people, FN Herstal employs 3,000, and Heckler & Koch just 1,200. In short, if you were to double the combined workforce of three of the most significant firearms manufacturers in the world, you would arrive at AWEIL's workforce size.

Established in 1904
Rifle Factory Ishapore was established in 1904, making it one of the oldest organizations in India. However, what is even more interesting is what it has (or hasn’t) done in these 120 years. Even after over a century, it has not designed a single machine gun of any type, auto-cannon, automatic grenade launcher, any kind of rocket launcher/recoilless rifle, or any firearm utilizing a short-stroke gas piston, nor has it developed any pistol—let alone a modern polymer-framed one.

The thing with Ammunition
Ammunition used to be the bread and butter for OFBs (Ordnance Factory Boards), as there was absolutely no competition in this sector. They consistently received orders 24/7 to supply everyone from the police to the navy. However, in recent years, new ammunition manufacturers, especially SSS Defence and Hughes Precision, have slowly been eating into their market share. When massively influential players like Adani enter the market, they will likely be able to operate with a no-loss, no-profit model for at least a few years, given their other profitable businesses.

The Attitude
For decades, they have successfully strong-armed the government into accepting their mediocrity. Multiple reform initiatives have been attempted, but they almost always end in strikes. This issue becomes further complicated when examining senior positions in the OFB, as almost none of them are held by younger individuals.

So ultimately the question is, when in the next few years their ammunition sales drop significantly and same happens with firearms as more and more private players pop up; what would they do? Especially with this huge workforce.
 
Ayan Barat said:
Let's talk about our favourite PSU...Advanced Weapons and Equipment India Limited or AWEIL.

AWEIL employs a workforce of almost 14,000 people.
To put that into perspective, SIG Sauer employs 3,200 people, FN Herstal employs 3,000, and Heckler & Koch just 1,200. In short, if you were to double the combined workforce of three of the most significant firearms manufacturers in the world, you would arrive at AWEIL's workforce size.

Established in 1904
Rifle Factory Ishapore was established in 1904, making it one of the oldest organizations in India. However, what is even more interesting is what it has (or hasn’t) done in these 120 years. Even after over a century, it has not designed a single machine gun of any type, auto-cannon, automatic grenade launcher, any kind of rocket launcher/recoilless rifle, or any firearm utilizing a short-stroke gas piston, nor has it developed any pistol—let alone a modern polymer-framed one.

The thing with Ammunition
Ammunition used to be the bread and butter for OFBs (Ordnance Factory Boards), as there was absolutely no competition in this sector. They consistently received orders 24/7 to supply everyone from the police to the navy. However, in recent years, new ammunition manufacturers, especially SSS Defence and Hughes Precision, have slowly been eating into their market share. When massively influential players like Adani enter the market, they will likely be able to operate with a no-loss, no-profit model for at least a few years, given their other profitable businesses.

The Attitude
For decades, they have successfully strong-armed the government into accepting their mediocrity. Multiple reform initiatives have been attempted, but they almost always end in strikes. This issue becomes further complicated when examining senior positions in the OFB, as almost none of them are held by younger individuals.

So ultimately the question is, when in the next few years their ammunition sales drop significantly and same happens with firearms as more and more private players pop up; what would they do? Especially with this huge workforce.
Click to expand...
Answer - Protests, like they always do, it was a fuck*ng miracle Modi even managed to corporatise and break OFB into smaller companies in the first place.

As for what would happen next, govt will slowly reduce their workforce and size but keep them afloat because not having a govt controlled ammo production agency is something GoI will never accept
 
Ultraman said:

View: https://x.com/AirPowerAsia/status/1839180898610126885

high altitude but crash landed wasnt that inaccessible .


View: https://x.com/Duorope/status/1838048945345364399
Click to expand...

This is what happens when we design develop and (adopt) our solutions.
We tweek them to our requirements and needs.
Foreign maal is may be jack of all trades(terrain), but we need master of our terrain.

Hats off to the engineers who made this possible. 🫡

We have talents in India to do the Design & Development.
But our babus needs to learn that Adoption is the only way to fuel the above.
 
Vishnugupt said:
After buying 22 Apaches worth of 3 billion dollars, UN Generals find out its not suitable for high altitude operations. :roflb: :roflb: :roflb:

It costed india 3 billion to know that Apache is not suitable for Himalay.

Great generals do great stuffs .
Jai General, Jai Hind.
F*Ck babus and DRDO
Click to expand...
Apaches were never suitable for high altitudes which is one of the reasons Prachand came into existence. They were always meant for CAS in the plains & deserts between India & Paxtan as air cavalry .

Since cost & dependancies on the US are a factor procurement will be limited & they will be supplemented with the Prachand which is to be acquired in huge numbers to cater to the same areas as the Apaches as well as high altitude warfare. There're no alternative to the sheer firepower the Apache brings to the battlefield.

Why exactly were they flying in that sector & will continue to is unknown but there has to be a justified reason for it. You aren't going to see them much in action across the LAC once hostilities break out.
 
Azaad said:
There're no alternative to the sheer firepower the Apache brings to the battlefield.
Click to expand...
There is; and it's called competence.

> Unless it's 40mm or more, it doesn't matter what caliber your auto-cannon is against a MBT type targets. So both, the 30mm of Apache and 20mm of LCH would struggle the same against any heavy armoured target.
As for soft armored, it doesn't really matter much. Even a well designed .50 BMG HE-I can wreak similar havoc.

> We have a shit ton of excellent ATGMs; NAG, HELINA, PROSPINA, SANT...with some even analogous to Brimstone class missiles, let alone Hellfire.
But for some weird reasons it seems all our focus is on coming up with new and more catchy acronyms for ATGMs instead of actually integrating one on LCH.
Maybe we're waiting for some brahm-muhrt that I'm not aware.

> We know that all pylons of LCH are rated for atleast 175kg (31kg launcher and twelve 70mm rockets for 144kg). And if brochure is believed then it becomes 250kg. Still the most cutting edge thing for us is a twin tube launcher for HELINA.
A twin tube when you can very easily carry a quad or even pent launcher.

> For atleast five decades multiple OFBs are making 68mm SNEB rockets as those used to be the mainstay of Anglo-French jets. Even after realising as early as 2008-9 that now 70mm would be the standard issue rocket they failed to do something as simple as up-gunning the 68 to 70mm.
After more than 15 years a private firm (Adani) took the initiative to set up a JV to make 70mm rockets.
 
Ayan Barat said:
There is; and it's called competence.

> Unless it's 40mm or more, it doesn't matter what caliber your auto-cannon is against a MBT type targets. So both, the 30mm of Apache and 20mm of LCH would struggle the same against any heavy armoured target.
As for soft armored, it doesn't really matter much. Even a well designed .50 BMG HE-I can wreak similar havoc.

> We have a shit ton of excellent ATGMs; NAG, HELINA, PROSPINA, SANT...with some even analogous to Brimstone class missiles, let alone Hellfire.
But for some weird reasons it seems all our focus is on coming up with new and more catchy acronyms for ATGMs instead of actually integrating one on LCH.
Maybe we're waiting for some brahm-muhrt that I'm not aware.

> We know that all pylons of LCH are rated for atleast 175kg (31kg launcher and twelve 70mm rockets for 144kg). And if brochure is believed then it becomes 250kg. Still the most cutting edge thing for us is a twin tube launcher for HELINA.
A twin tube when you can very easily carry a quad or even pent launcher.

> For atleast five decades multiple OFBs are making 68mm SNEB rockets as those used to be the mainstay of Anglo-French jets. Even after realising as early as 2008-9 that now 70mm would be the standard issue rocket they failed to do something as simple as up-gunning the 68 to 70mm.
After more than 15 years a private firm (Adani) took the initiative to set up a JV to make 70mm rockets.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the exhaustive information but are all these available on the LCH today ? More importantly were these capabilities available when the decision to acquire the Apaches were made around 2010 give or take as an integral part of the CSD ?
 
Pundit Pikachu said:
DRDO devloped HMDS

View attachment 10537

Holy fuck is this thing ugly and impractical to use, no wonder the IAF prefers the yahoodi HMDS
View attachment 10538
Click to expand...
How does it compare to available contemporary HMDS and the ones touted for the jf17? And what do we use for LCA?

I could care less about looks at this point, as long as they deliver a product that is in line with the current threat perceptions and capabilities we need from such a helmet
 
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