Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shauryaman65]

some members used to hurl abuses at me for saying the same thing in 2022.

Some still would lmao

 

[Binayak95]

Why don't we do air exercises with Russian Airforce?

Because Russia barely has any planes left to fend off Ukraine.
And Russian pilot training is .... lackadaisical at best, moronic at worst.

 

[Binayak95]

They don't have much to offer that we already haven't applied and improved.

Doctrinally, culturally and militarily, the VKS directly contrasts against the IAF, as a measure of how different they both are.

VKS is nothing more than an extension of their ground force, an airborne artillery if you will - all of their objectives, training methodologies, missions etc are slaved to their army, which prevents them from being an actually independent arm of the military. This means they don't plan their own complex air tasking orders(ATO), don't do preventive/planned suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses, don't hit out at crucial command/control/communication hubs in advance, and certainly do not plan large offensive/defensive counter air packages.

This is in sharp contrast to the IAF: example being all the previous wars the Indian military has faced - they have been given complete freedom to shape their own ATOs and decisively strike out against targets that will help the future needs of the war, instead of being slaved to the ground forces as airborne artillery against curent targets.

Leaving that difference aside, even the Soviet/Russian methodology of how fighter to fighter engagements(BVR, WVR, ..) play out is inferior to the IAF methodology. Simply put, the Russian culture/doctrine presumes that the ground controller/AWACS controller should have more control over the engagement than the actual pilot present there - this means that the decision to action loop(OODA loop) of the Russian pilots are far slower than their enemy, because the Russian pilots have to first have to ask, and then be directed.

The IAF system is based on the Western method: the pilot is in ultimate control of the aircraft. The GCI/AWACS are not overlords over the pilot. This means that the OODA loop is shorter and faster than their enemy, which gives them an edge.

I've embedded two videos down below, the first one is the Soviet/Russian system, and the second one is the IAF system. Let me know which one you consider to be the cleanest and most effective:

Iranian pilot, with GCI, shoots down Iraqi Mirages. FC = Fighter Control(GCI)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJITRbulnc


4 American F-15Cs against 3 Iraqi MiG-23s


View: https://youtu.be/xsbFBHxUCAw?t=35

What you write is true and accurate for the Soviet Air Force, the RuAF is a hollowed out defunct organisation that is sabotaging its own pilots and personnel thanks to corruption, regular kremlin purges, and genuinely unmaintained equipment.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

A good video of IAF's S/w Development Institute. It showcases Su-30MKI, LCA, MiG-29, turboprop trainer, AWACS.
AVM K N Santosh, the commander of S/w dev. institute, said that MLU is supposed to happen every 10 years. He believes in achieving 100% self-relliance.
Hats off to my fellow computer/electronics guys. I wish if i was good enough scorer to get into such priviledged place.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-z-YSi9zyg

 

[Abhijeet]

What you write is true and accurate for the Soviet Air Force, the RuAF is a hollowed out defunct organisation that is sabotaging its own pilots and personnel thanks to corruption, regular kremlin purges, and genuinely unmaintained equipment.

View: https://x.com/arabnews/status/1829343294347743256

 

[shauryaman65]

View: https://x.com/arabnews/status/1829343294347743256

Russia's friends of yesterday, not today.

 

[Anants]

A good video of IAF's S/w Development Institute. It showcases Su-30MKI, LCA, MiG-29, turboprop trainer, AWACS.
AVM K N Santosh, the commander of S/w dev. institute, said that MLU is supposed to happen every 10 years. He believes in achieving 100% self-relliance.
Hats off to my fellow computer/electronics guys. I wish if i was good enough scorer to get into such priviledged place.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-z-YSi9zyg

Damn SDR devloped by DPSU was quoted 290 crores for LCA and SDI provided it for 0 cost SDI is doing all weapon integration like ASTrA Gaurav

 

[Hari Sud]

It looks like Jaguar planes of IAF will continue to be operational for long time.

IAF Jaguars – "Aging Like A Fine Wine," Why Retiring Nuke-Capable Combat Jets Is Not A Great Move?

With Modified Headlines The Indian Air Force (IAF) reportedly plans to begin phasing out its Jaguar strike aircraft starting in 2027-2028, with the complete phase-out scheduled by 2035-2040. Considering the relentless depletion of the IAF’s fighter inventory—due to delays in planned...

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Spitfire IX]

It looks like Jaguar planes of IAF will continue to be operational for long time.

IAF Jaguars – "Aging Like A Fine Wine," Why Retiring Nuke-Capable Combat Jets Is Not A Great Move?

With Modified Headlines The Indian Air Force (IAF) reportedly plans to begin phasing out its Jaguar strike aircraft starting in 2027-2028, with the complete phase-out scheduled by 2035-2040. Considering the relentless depletion of the IAF’s fighter inventory—due to delays in planned...

www.eurasiantimes.com

Hanging onto Jaguars seems like a good idea if the alternative is having nothing until Tejas Mk2 turns up.

 

[shauryaman65]

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

View attachment 8264

Appraisal sounds like Office Annual Appraisal discussion with manager Salary hike? Band progression?

 

[VictorDelta4]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1830656717585334301

 

[shauryaman65]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1830656717585334301

Just how many of these flying pieces of **** have we lost to accidents?

 

[narasimh]

Just how many of these flying pieces of **** have we lost to accidents?

Mig 29 is pretty good and we have not lost them like the 21s.. fighter flying will have such accidents.. so let's not lose our minds

 

[Vishnugupt]

How did you conclude that it's the engines? Care to be objective much?

Do you ever come to know about any cause for any crash since independence?? All you hear “A technical snag” even if you switch off engine in midair.

We don’t follow logic in few particular threads. This is a unwritten rule of DFB that any crash should be attributed to Engine/Flight control ( if it is Russian) or Babus/PSUs ( If it is Western or Indian)

In the end you to write “Jai General” otherwise master ji will ban you.

 

[DumbPilot]

Problem is also with IAF's IQ. They push Russian machines, managed by Desi crew to the western limits. They think it's cool.
Last time M2K and Su-30 crashed mid air into each other. I fail to understand under which circumstances these jets will have to be so close to their enemies. Looks like BVR concept still needs to make a way inside their brain.

I think this is a very misinformed post for several reasons:

- "Russian machines. managed by Desi crew, to the Western limits" what does this mean? The airframes that the IAF uses are operated within their specified limits. Whether the plane is pulling 8Gs or 20+ degrees of AoA is all dependent on the fact whether the machine can do that or not. Regarding the maintenance: I don't think they are doing anything wrong, otherwise we would have seen a lot more crashes(example: The RuAF). What does "western limit" even mean?

- The M2K and Su-30 were flying at TACDE, which is a premier institute meant to develop new tactics and validate old ones. Part of that includes doing DACT(dissimilar aircraft combat training) in which planes with different characteristics are put against each other to simulate an enemy.

- "Looks like BVR concept still needs to make a way inside their brain" If you are able to think that BVR is important in this day and age, then why wouldn't the air force? Why else are they rushing to replace all of their old R77s with the Astra series of BVRAAMs?

 

[ezsasa]

As we know IAF inventory is both technology intensive as well as capital intensive, unlike IA they can't buy piece meal basis. by it's nature, IAF has to be constantly on their toes because of constant advances in tech by our adversaries as well as around the world.

even when IAF, Govt, Vendor are on same page, it takes about a decade for order to get signed for the bigger deals.

wanted to build this time line for some time, here is the first cut. there are missing items like dhruv, jaguar upgrade etc. incase anyone wants to contribute on filling in the details or any corrections, feel free to do so by copying the table and adding details.

Idea is to capture important milestones like order given, delivery commencement, Induction delivery complete. and also IAF's other projects like upgrades, MAFI and ALGs. since major chuck of their capex budget goes for these milestones and projects.

Year	System	Quantity	Cost	Remarks
1996	SU-30MKI	50
2000	SU-30MKI	140
2002	IL-78 MKI	6		Air refuelling
2004	BAE Hawk	66
2007	SU-30MKI	40
2008	BAE Hawk	40
2008	Akash SAM	2 Squadrons		Order given
2009	SPYDER SAM	18 Squadrons		Order Given
2009	MR-SAM			Contract signed but project delay by 4 years
2010	C-17	10
2010	Akash SAM	6 Squadrons		Order Given
2011	MAFI PHASE 1	30 airfields	36000 Cr.	completed in 2020 Modernisation of Airfields Infrastructure
2011	MIG-29 UPG	69
2012	Pilatus PC-7 Mk3	75
2012	SU-30MKI	42
2012	Akash SAM			Delivery begins
2012	SPYDER SAM			Delivery completed
2013	C-130J	12
2015	CH-47 Chinook	15
2015	AH-64E Apache	22
2015	Akash SAM			Induction
2016	Rafale	36	59000 Cr.	Contract signed
2018	SU-30MKI			First domestic overhaul of existing inventory
2018	S-400	5 Squadrons	35000 Cr.
2019	Rafale			First delivery
2020	MAFI PHASE 2
2021	C-295	56	21935 Cr.	Order
2021	LCA-MK1A	83	48000 Cr.
2021	SU-30MKI			Last of 222 order delivered
2021	MR-SAM	18 Squadrons	8396 Cr.	Induction starts
2021	S-400			First Delivery
2022	Rafale			Delivery completes
2022	HTT-40 Trainer	70	6800 Cr.	Order
2022	S-400			Second Delivery
2023	S-400			Third Delivery

Year	System	Quantity	Cost	Remarks
1996	SU-30MKI	50
2000	SU-30MKI	140
2002	IL-78 MKI	6		Air refuelling
2004	BAE Hawk	66
2007	SU-30MKI	40
2008	JAGUAR	68	2400 Cr.	DARIN 2 upgrade by HAL
2008	BAE Hawk	40
2008	Akash SAM	2 Squadrons		Order given
2009	SPYDER SAM	18 Squadrons		Order Given
2009	MR-SAM			Contract signed but project delay by 4 years
2010	C-17	10
2010	Akash SAM	6 Squadrons		Order Given
2011	MAFI PHASE 1	30 airfields	36000 Cr.	completed in 2020 Modernisation of Airfields Infrastructure
2011	MIG-29 UPG	69
2012	Pilatus PC-7 Mk3	75
2012	SU-30MKI	42
2012	Akash SAM			Delivery begins
2012	SPYDER SAM			Delivery completed
2013	C-130J	12
2015	CH-47 Chinook	15
2015	AH-64E Apache	22
2015	Akash SAM			Induction
2016	JAGUAR	3		DARIN 3 IOC
2016	Rafale	36	59000 Cr.	Contract signed
2018	SU-30MKI			First domestic overhaul of existing inventory
2018	S-400	5 Squadrons	35000 Cr.
2019	Rafale			First delivery
2020	MAFI PHASE 2
2021	C-295	56	21935 Cr.	Order
2021	LCA-MK1A	83	48000 Cr.
2021	SU-30MKI			Last of 222 order delivered
2021	MR-SAM	18 Squadrons	8396 Cr.	Induction starts
2021	S-400			First Delivery
2022	Rafale			Delivery completes
2022	HTT-40 Trainer	70	6800 Cr.	Order
2022	S-400			Second Delivery
2023	S-400			Third Delivery
2024	AL-31FP engines	240	26000 Cr.	Order given, delivery period spread across 8 years

 

[Fatalis]

Year	System	Quantity	Cost	Remarks
1996	SU-30MKI	50
2000	SU-30MKI	140
2002	IL-78 MKI	6		Air refuelling
2004	BAE Hawk	66
2007	SU-30MKI	40
2008	JAGUAR	68	2400 Cr.	DARIN 2 upgrade by HAL
2008	BAE Hawk	40
2008	Akash SAM	2 Squadrons		Order given
2009	SPYDER SAM	18 Squadrons		Order Given
2009	MR-SAM			Contract signed but project delay by 4 years
2010	C-17	10
2010	Akash SAM	6 Squadrons		Order Given
2011	MAFI PHASE 1	30 airfields	36000 Cr.	completed in 2020 Modernisation of Airfields Infrastructure
2011	MIG-29 UPG	69
2012	Pilatus PC-7 Mk3	75
2012	SU-30MKI	42
2012	Akash SAM			Delivery begins
2012	SPYDER SAM			Delivery completed
2013	C-130J	12
2015	CH-47 Chinook	15
2015	AH-64E Apache	22
2015	Akash SAM			Induction
2016	JAGUAR	3		DARIN 3 IOC
2016	Rafale	36	59000 Cr.	Contract signed
2018	SU-30MKI			First domestic overhaul of existing inventory
2018	S-400	5 Squadrons	35000 Cr.
2019	Rafale			First delivery
2020	MAFI PHASE 2
2021	C-295	56	21935 Cr.	Order
2021	LCA-MK1A	83	48000 Cr.
2021	SU-30MKI			Last of 222 order delivered
2021	MR-SAM	18 Squadrons	8396 Cr.	Induction starts
2021	S-400			First Delivery
2022	Rafale			Delivery completes
2022	HTT-40 Trainer	70	6800 Cr.	Order
2022	S-400			Second Delivery
2023	S-400			Third Delivery
2024	AL-31FP engines	240	26000 Cr.	Order given, delivery period spread across 8 years

SpyDer is either 3 squadrons or 9 squadrons.

MRSAM is also 9 squadrons. I know the reference for 18 squadrons will be the slide shown by IAF chief last year.

You can also include 244 CIWS guns, Phalcon AWACS and Netra MK-1 AEW&C.

 

[ezsasa]

SpyDer is either 3 squadrons or 9 squadrons.

MRSAM is also 9 squadrons. I know the reference for 18 squadrons will be the slide shown by IAF chief last year.

You can also include 244 CIWS guns, Phalcon AWACS and Netra MK-1 AEW&C.

copy the table, and add the details in year wise sequence.

 

[Nutcracker]

I deleted that before you even sent a reply, because I thought I was being harsh, not because I was wrong or misinformed.

I think this is a very misinformed post for several reasons:

- "Russian machines. managed by Desi crew, to the Western limits" what does this mean? The airframes that the IAF uses are operated within their specified limits. Whether the plane is pulling 8Gs or 20+ degrees of AoA is all dependent on the fact whether the machine can do that or not. Regarding the maintenance: I don't think they are doing anything wrong, otherwise we would have seen a lot more crashes(example: The RuAF). What does "western limit" even mean?

What Machine "can do" can be overridden. I thought you would know that. I've had previously came across articles and interviews stating that Mig21 pilots used to override many limitations put into system/MC. Same was said about mig29.
You can read in below article on DFI.

Flying & Fighting in the MiG-29: Interview with ‘Fulcrum’ pilot Air Marshal Harish

Air Marshal Harish Masand is a decorated veteran of the 1971 war, and a pioneer of the MiG–29 in the Indian Air Force. He is one of, if not the, the most celebrated Fulcrum pilot of the Indian Air Force. His solo MiG–29 displays remain the stuff of IAF legend. We spoke to him about flying the...

defenceforumindia.com

- The M2K and Su-30 were flying at TACDE, which is a premier institute meant to develop new tactics and validate old ones. Part of that includes doing DACT(dissimilar aircraft combat training) in which planes with different characteristics are put against each other to simulate an enemy.

And ? Even in real combat chances of head on collision might be very small. I always believe that if their combat involves such tactics that means they are heavily preparing for losing EW battle. Which kind of makes sense looking at the pending procurement offensive and defensive AEWC platforms.