Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Any movement on India doing anything realistic to mitigate its fighter crisis in the short term?

Mk1A would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Mk2 would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Rafale would be helpful if some could be delivered in the next year or so.
Almost impossible.
MRFA would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.

What fighters that IAF pilots could fly could be delivered to IAF in the next year or so? The possibility of fast delivery of new fighter aircraft to the IAF does not exist (apart from a handful of Mk1A).
 
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Spitfire IX said:
Any movement on India doing anything realistic to mitigate its fighter crisis in the short term?

Mk1A would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Mk2 would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Rafale would be helpful if some could be delivered in the next year or so.
Almost impossible.
MRFA would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.

What fighters that IAF pilots could fly could be delivered to IAF in the next year or so? The possibility of fast delivery of new fighter aircraft to the IAF does not exist (apart from a handful of Mk1A).
Click to expand...
Only option is importing more M2K and Mig29 airframes and equipping both with Indian AESA radar and jammers. projects should begin from next year itself. Meanwhile su30 will also go through same upgrade package.
 
Spitfire IX said:
Any movement on India doing anything realistic to mitigate its fighter crisis in the short term?

Mk1A would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Mk2 would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.
Rafale would be helpful if some could be delivered in the next year or so.
Almost impossible.
MRFA would be helpful if 50-100 could be delivered and pilots trained in the next year or so.
Impossible.

What fighters that IAF pilots could fly could be delivered to IAF in the next year or so? The possibility of fast delivery of new fighter aircraft to the IAF does not exist (apart from a handful of Mk1A).
Click to expand...
How many lost occasions....
Just imagine India purchasing the M2000 line and producing on its soil 127 M2000-5 .... 20+ years ago.

Just imagine India inking a deal for Rafale (or EF2000) for MMRCA 1 in 2011-2013. 12 years ago.

Just imagine India purchasing 72 Rafale instead of 36 : all delivered so far. 9 years ago more or less.

Same can be said about the fine tune assistance for Kaveri, or the complete developpment of an engine with GE, PW, RR or Safran.
 
Nutcracker said:
Only option is importing more M2K and Mig29 airframes and equipping both with Indian AESA radar and jammers. projects should begin from next year itself. Meanwhile su30 will also go through same upgrade package.
Click to expand...
few M2000 airframes on the market...
UAE ones? But some are said to be sold to Morocco, maybe Egypt. And UAE is an arab country :confused:.
Greek ones : they want to sell some to pay for more Rafale.
I doubt Taiwan ready to sell theirs : China pressure is growing month after month.

for Mig29 it's probably far more easy. But with the well known spare parts shortage problem.
 
BON PLAN said:
few M2000 airframes on the market...
UAE ones? But some are said to be sold to Morocco, maybe Egypt. And UAE is an arab country :confused:.
Greek ones : they want to sell some to pay for more Rafale.
I doubt Taiwan ready to sell theirs : China pressure is growing month after month.

for Mig29 it's probably far more easy. But with the well known spare parts shortage problem.
Click to expand...
Ties with Greece are pretty good and UAE is literally our homie. so won't be difficult to reach to agreement.
Unfortunately Qatari airframes are in best condition and we have a little shaky relation with them.
 

Nutcracker said:
Ties with Greece are pretty good and UAE is literally our homie. so won't be difficult to reach to agreement.
Unfortunately Qatari airframes are in best condition and we have a little shaky relation with them.
Click to expand...
Is India actively pursuing possible vendors of M2K to buy some?

A year or so back it was reported that there were some unassembled MiG-29 for sale by Russia. If true, did India do anything to actively procure them?

PS I remember recently reading UK had some scrapped Jaguars. Did India make any active efforts to procure them for spares.

Peru should be retiring its M2K in the future. Is India going to do anything to try to procure them?
 
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darkindie said:
Why don't we do air exercises with Russian Airforce?
Click to expand...

India invites 51 countries for Tarang Shakti 2024 air exercises next week; Russia & Israel won't participate

www.firstpost.com

India invites 51 countries for Tarang Shakti 2024 air exercises next week; Russia & Israel won't participate

In the Tarang Shakti 2024, make-in-India equipment including LCA Tejas, LCH Prachand and other weapon systems would be showcased at the event exercise, the Indian Air Force said
www.firstpost.com www.firstpost.com

Air Marshal AP Singh, said Russia is among the 51 countries invited for Tarang Shakti but they are not participating “due to their own ongoing conflict back home”.

Israel has not been invited for the exercise, the Air Force said.
Click to expand...
 
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shauryaman65 said:
I wonder what Russians could possibly be doing that might prevent them from going to international military exercises......
Click to expand...
I am deeply disappointed by the performance of Russian Air Force in the Ukrainian conflict. It is shocking how deep the rot and corruption have gone in the ranks that it is destroying the effectiveness of what it used to be a mighty and capable Air Force. I do not think that IAF can learn of any value from RuAF.

I’m sad to say that Russian Air Force will not stand a chance against NATO/US Air Force. Only the Russian nukes is keeping them at bay and it’s hard to say how long that will be that way if Russian Air Force does not change for the better.
 
Blademaster said:
I am deeply disappointed by the performance of Russian Air Force in the Ukrainian conflict. It is shocking how deep the rot and corruption have gone in the ranks that it is destroying the effectiveness of what it used to be a mighty and capable Air Force. I do not think that IAF can learn of any value from RuAF.

I’m sad to say that Russian Air Force will not stand a chance against NATO/US Air Force. Only the Russian nukes is keeping them at bay and it’s hard to say how long that will be that way if Russian Air Force does not change for the better.
Click to expand...

some members used to hurl abuses at me for saying the same thing in 2022. :p
 
darkindie said:
Even before the war I have not seen many air exercise vids between IAF and RuAF.
Click to expand...

They don't have much to offer that we already haven't applied and improved.

Doctrinally, culturally and militarily, the VKS directly contrasts against the IAF, as a measure of how different they both are.

VKS is nothing more than an extension of their ground force, an airborne artillery if you will - all of their objectives, training methodologies, missions etc are slaved to their army, which prevents them from being an actually independent arm of the military. This means they don't plan their own complex air tasking orders(ATO), don't do preventive/planned suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses, don't hit out at crucial command/control/communication hubs in advance, and certainly do not plan large offensive/defensive counter air packages.

This is in sharp contrast to the IAF: example being all the previous wars the Indian military has faced - they have been given complete freedom to shape their own ATOs and decisively strike out against targets that will help the future needs of the war, instead of being slaved to the ground forces as airborne artillery against curent targets.

Leaving that difference aside, even the Soviet/Russian methodology of how fighter to fighter engagements(BVR, WVR, ..) play out is inferior to the IAF methodology. Simply put, the Russian culture/doctrine presumes that the ground controller/AWACS controller should have more control over the engagement than the actual pilot present there - this means that the decision to action loop(OODA loop) of the Russian pilots are far slower than their enemy, because the Russian pilots have to first have to ask, and then be directed.

The IAF system is based on the Western method: the pilot is in ultimate control of the aircraft. The GCI/AWACS are not overlords over the pilot. This means that the OODA loop is shorter and faster than their enemy, which gives them an edge.

I've embedded two videos down below, the first one is the Soviet/Russian system, and the second one is the IAF system. Let me know which one you consider to be the cleanest and most effective:

Iranian pilot, with GCI, shoots down Iraqi Mirages. FC = Fighter Control(GCI)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJITRbulnc


4 American F-15Cs against 3 Iraqi MiG-23s


View: https://youtu.be/xsbFBHxUCAw?t=35
 
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