Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[mist_consecutive]

And when we criticize our generals people starts calling us out on social media ..

What are Generals supposed to do here ? Wear a superman suit and catch it in the air ? Stop blaming everything on Generals.

Mig-29 always had poor crash record, even in other Air Forces.

I have always wondered why aren't the COI reports made public. As @Ayan Barat once mentioned, Indian Military needs a public hearing akin to the US congressional hearings!
Only when the dirty linen is washed in public, will they start acting straight.

COI is made public as required. Srinagar Mi-17 shot down CoI, C-130J crash, BrahMos accidental launch, all were made public.

Lets not cultivate unnecessary hate.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Crashes are normal.
So normal that in estimated over-all attrition rate a separate quota is there for technical and pilot issues. From F-35 to F-22 to B-2, every plane has crashed and even the super duper NGAD would crash in tens.

No matter how much one blames the military or manufacturers or government there'd always be a crash percentage...no. of aircraft lost/no. of total aircraft. The only thing one can do to deal with it is to increase the denominator so much that the ultimate percentage becomes negligible.

Obviously there are exceptions to this too, I'm not denying that. One of the speculated reasons our MiG-21s had such high crash rate was the fact that we're forced to use them as supersonic trainer due to lack of a proper one. Or if the Dhruvs kept on crashing and each time the cause was suboptimal controll rods. But again these are just exceptions.

 

[Brood Father]

What are Generals supposed to do here ? Wear a superman suit and catch it in the air ? Stop blaming everything on Generals.

Mig-29 always had poor crash record, even in other Air Forces.



COI is made public as required. Srinagar Mi-17 shot down CoI, C-130J crash, BrahMos accidental launch, all were made public.

Lets not cultivate unnecessary hate.

Then don't fly these older frames. Why put pilots life in danger ..We are the only force which operated so called "widow maker" in past.

And yes generals are to be blamed ..Most of these crashes are because of poor maintenance or lack of parts . Who else to be blamed? , they are ones who takes all the glory , they should take the fall as well ..

 

[VictorDelta4]

We are the only force which operated so called "widow maker" in past.

Well to be fair the F104 Starfighter was also called a Witwenmacher/Widow Maker in Germany. At the height of the Starfighter affair here in Germany in 65/66 there were 44 crashes with 18 proving fatal.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1853396713765048609?s=46

 

[sameer]

Then don't fly these older frames. Why put pilots life in danger ..We are the only force which operated so called "widow maker" in past.

And yes generals are to be blamed ..Most of these crashes are because of poor maintenance or lack of parts . Who else to be blamed? , they are ones who takes all the glory , they should take the fall as well ..

No, he's right. Blaming generals for everything is simplistic. Who was responsible for tanking the MRFA deal back in early 2010's. Our room temp IQ babus decided to play hardball and demand all kinds of conditions from Dassault.

Now when shit hits the fan and number of squadrons going down every couple of years, we're back to square one looking at the deal, 15 years later. Only this time, Dassault doesn't even have extra capacity till 2030

At the very least finalizing the deal back then would've bought us some time until we start mass inducting Mk2 which from the current timeline looks like early 2030's.

Such extraordinary levels of bad planning cannot be the result of the hallowed generols alone. Not to say I'm absolving the generols of their apathy. But It's a whole system issue.

 

[VictorDelta4]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1853396713765048609?s=46

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1853443389108404427

 

[RocketMan]

We need more fighter jets ASAP otherwise we'll be below 20 squadrons by 2030. Why can't we produce more Tejas & upgrade it with indigenous engine or French/Russian one later ? Or set-up a production line for Gripen for which Sweden is offering complete ToT .

 

[mist_consecutive]

Then don't fly these older frames. Why put pilots life in danger ..We are the only force which operated so called "widow maker" in past.

And yes generals are to be blamed ..Most of these crashes are because of poor maintenance or lack of parts . Who else to be blamed? , they are ones who takes all the glory , they should take the fall as well ..

• These are not older airframes but newly-MLUed Mig-29 UPGs.
• Mig-29 is not known as widow maker but Mig-21 (all retired except 1 sqn I think).
• Generals are now responsible for maintenance ? I thought "procurement" especially from phoren is the strong point for generals ?

C'mon, free speech has led you folks mind get poisoned by Armed-Forces hating leftist elements on this forum. You guys have made Armed Forces leadership a convinient punching bag for everything wrong with your lives.

When GoI can't plan properly to procure jets in the last 20 years, stonewalling every deal with myriad of problems, then sheepishly procuring 36 Rafales through "emergency purchases" how is IAF supposed to fix this problem through some magic wand ?

 

[mist_consecutive]

View: https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1853455285786120664

 

[705-Lira]

We need more fighter jets ASAP otherwise we'll be below 20 squadrons by 2030. Why can't we produce more Tejas & upgrade it with indigenous engine or French/Russian one later ? Or set-up a production line for Gripen for which Sweden is offering complete ToT .

Half of the Gripen-E is of non-Swedish origin, their statement on complete ToT is nothing but hogwash since they themselves don't hold the IPR for foreign components in the Gripen-E.

Inducting Gripen-E will sign a death warrant for the Tejas Mk2 program.

83 Tejas Mk1A are already on order but supply chain issues have held up engine deliveries to India.
This has also had an effect in the conclusion of the additional 97 Tejas Mk1A deal.

 

[VictorDelta4]

View: https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1853455285786120664

The pilot did a commendable job of avoiding ground casualties.

 

[Ayan Barat]

There's a whole spectrum of Indian fanbois ranging from "we should get Su-57, atleast we'd have something to counter J-20 before AMCA" to "Su-57 is the most advanced 5th gen jet...way better than F-35, we should resurrect FGFA to start serial production instead of wasting money on AMCA"

Meanwhile Su-57 at this year's Zhuhai Airshow:

 

[VictorDelta4]

There's a whole spectrum of Indian fanbois ranging from "we should get Su-57, atleast we'd have something to counter J-20 before AMCA" to "Su-57 is the most advanced 5th gen jet...way better than F-35, we should resurrect FGFA to start serial production instead of wasting money on AMCA"

Meanwhile Su-57 at this year's Zhuhai Airshow:
View attachment 14157

Wasn't this an early prototype that visited the airshow?

 

[Ayan Barat]

Wasn't this an early prototype that visited the airshow?

Given the problem of rampant corruption in Russia, what makes you think things have changed much in serial production?

 

[VictorDelta4]

Given the problem of rampant corruption in Russia, what makes you think things have changed much in serial production?

True!

 

[705-Lira]

Given the problem of rampant corruption in Russia, what makes you think things have changed much in serial production?

Here's a side by side comparison of a prototype with the first serial production aircraft.
The fit and finish is definitely a notch above.

 

[Brood Father]

• Generals are now responsible for maintenance ? I thought "procurement" especially from phoren is the strong point for generals ?

That's why we don't have any accountability.
Generals are not responsible for procurement it's government job .
Generals are not responsible for maintenance, it's mechanic job
Generals are not responsible for day to day operation, it's mid level officer jobs
What are they then for ?

There has to be accountability..you can't keep on losing pilots and frames and be cool about it
.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

There's a whole spectrum of Indian fanbois ranging from "we should get Su-57, atleast we'd have something to counter J-20 before AMCA" to "Su-57 is the most advanced 5th gen jet...way better than F-35, we should resurrect FGFA to start serial production instead of wasting money on AMCA"

Meanwhile Su-57 at this year's Zhuhai Airshow:
View attachment 14157

SU-57 is bullshit. The initial premise is to provide access to HAL so they can develop our own version of this prototype. But when we tried to get access Sukhoi denied. This is the final nail in coffin, at the end of the HAL/India sending money so Russians can develop their fighters without any returns. Same happened with the MTA aircraft.

Russians tends to grab money in the name of Tech access only to deny them later on. We done the correct thing by pulling out from this.


I will rather see hundred renders of AMCA than this SU-57

 

[silentassassin265]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1853396713765048609?s=46

Will we even have airforce by 2040 at this rate?
Completely cutting off Russia from fighter jet procurement was a mistake, as were building lca and mwf we should have purchased su35/su57 in mmrca