Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Indianhawk]

Su57 , f35 and rafale !

Now IAF can buy the best from anywhere USA , europe or Russia.

It is obvious IAF will double down on rafale given that now navy has gone for it too.

Btw no deal announcement in france visit by PM??

AMCA is now 2035-40 project for production which means 2045 for mature operational readiness.

So need something to hold the fort for these 20 years.

Trump's offer won't be without multiple strings attached.

MRFA bas yet to begun.

Su57 mark 2 is still not mature enough. Then it will require mki-zation to make it upto IAF mark.

So safest course of action!

Double down on AMCA mk1. Increase its budget and prototype funding. Allow first 40 jets to fly with lca mk2 avionics as it is.
Upgrade them later.

Meanwhile get the IAF 72 more rafales along with Navy's 26 get the manufacturing line in india with 98 jets order .

Order more Amca mk1 and rafale later if Amca mk2 is delayed.

Everything else is just harakiri at this point.

 

[mist_consecutive]

You know why this happened?View attachment 25142

Pakistan bitchslapped IAF out of the sky & paraded around blindfolded, because when Jf-17 was in similar shaky status as Tejas at early 2010s... They backed it with their full force & inducted 50 without BVRs, while ours called it a 3-legged chertah.
And today IAF has to celebrate barely surviving AAMs from an inferior Air Force & make face-saving claims that literally noone other than Indian civilians were fooled by.

Combat is an extension of politics & policies.

JF-17 played no significant role on 2019 skirmish apart from being just targets flying in the sky. The main offensive operation was led by F-16s & Mirage III ROSE.

Even if today skirmish breaks out I doubt JF-17s will see any frontline action apart from being absolute point defence fighters. Heavy carrying will be done by F-16s and J-10s.

If you are trying to argue JF-17s use-case as an indiginization drive success then you are just making fun of yourself.

 

[johny_baba]

View: https://x.com/GenZKaoboy/status/1890879401299956051

> le frontier indica

bhai, i know this guy from my days of teligram misadventures, i was part of his group and channel...this guy's been doxxed many times by his own stupidities, and as per available info, he's a pahadi, either from himachal or uttaranchal (don't remember much) and he's quite kanglu-tier in looks...with dark complexion and literally neckbeard and bowl-cut hairs

and needlessly to say, he's a giga b#o$dapiller about every random things...

when i got bored with his group, i just put one of his doxxed photo there with some funny comment and within two minutes he got enraged and blocked me from not only his group but channel and other places ran by him too lmao crybaby kahika

 

[jaijaganath]

ACM is barking up one of the trees responsible. Others are GoI, MoD, and IAF themselves.



And people will appreciate this decision while blaming Armed Forces for trying to acquire similar platform which is not made promised to be made by HAL.



Nothing, privatise the PSUs with upper management poached from L&T / Aditya Birla / Tata and engineers poached from IITs & FAANGs.

Then see them churning out AMCA within 2030.

How can u churn AMCA within 2030s
Ur IITians or FAANG engineers arent some sort of super humans
When its industrial norm for T+36 months to deliver LRUs and other systems u cant do much
Now recently users have asked to change design to handle more stress
These things will linger this is how things are point is iaf doesnt time
Testing such complicated systems will again take time as u will have many errors bugs and problems especially country like ours where industry is barely present

 

[sameer]

Do we have official confirmation from Indian Govt sources about F35 procurement or we are just speculating gormint babus might fumble n buy this over priced bird....

Nothing. It's just speculation and hyperventilation from fanbois. Trump just said it casually knowing that saying such stuff harms no one. It's just some signaling/messaging that USA is good friends with India - in the sense that they're ready to sell their prized possession despite us having the S400, whereas the same privilege isn't being extended to the ice-cream sellers. They know very well that they don't have the burden of selling it to India when we won't even be buying them.

 

[silentassassin265]

Nothing. It's just speculation and hyperventilation from fanbois. Trump just said it casually knowing that saying such stuff harms no one. It's just some signaling/messaging that USA is good friends with India - in the sense that they're ready to sell their prized possession despite us having the S400, whereas the same privilege isn't being extended to the ice-cream sellers. They know very well that they don't have the burden of selling it to India when we won't even be buying them.

Last time I heard that F35 doesn't work with any communication infrastructure that's not NATO.
They don't even allow any modifications on that jet, exception was only given for Israel.
Maybe it was just a ploy to stall su57 procurement.

 

[Bleh]

JF-17 played no significant role on 2019 skirmish apart from being just targets flying in the sky. The main offensive operation was led by F-16s & Mirage III ROSE.

Even if today skirmish breaks out I doubt JF-17s will see any frontline action apart from being absolute point defence fighters. Heavy carrying will be done by F-16s and J-10s.

If you are trying to argue JF-17s use-case as an indiginization drive success then you are just making fun of yourself.

Indians do have to cope a lot about it, but so will the Tejas on our side.
Additionally, Pakistani stand always had been that F-16s moved in to keep Abhinandan engaged while Jf-17s sniped him, from the Day 1.

...& if they really got PL-15 then it's definitely better than Su-30 at BVRs rn.

 

[Varoon4]

View: https://x.com/GenZKaoboy/status/1890879401299956051

Good to hear about those almost forgotten other posts that were attacked by the IAF. But not pleasing to know that there are still sceptics about the terrorist camp at Balakot i.e whether any damage was done.

 

[Ayan Barat]

One of the founding members of my Avengers Initiatives and India's resident geopolitical expert; Major Saab

View: https://x.com/fishy_bong/status/1891108312512692474?s=19
Around 25 billion United States Dollar @ of INR 86.7 per Dollar

Rajnath Jee be like...

 

[Brood Father]

One of the founding members of my Avengers Initiatives and India's resident geopolitical expert; Major Saab

View: https://x.com/fishy_bong/status/1891108312512692474?s=19
Around 25 billion United States Dollar @ of INR 86.7 per Dollar

Rajnath Jee be like...
View attachment 25373

Well I have many questions in Major Saab analysis which personally I feel is bonkers but why make him visit ENT??

 

[IndiaRising]

Hi guys this is IndiaRising from DFI. Glad to be here.

As far as F-35 goes, it is going to be a reality. 3 squadrons will be ordered. What remains to be seen is what kind of package we get? A lot of questions will be answered once the DSCA notification comes.

 

[IndiaRising]

India may take Rafale route to buy US' F35 fighter jets: Govt likely to opt for limited numbers; may require special monitoring clauses

India is considering the acquisition of F35 fighter jets from the US, similar to its Rafale deal with France. The deal will likely be government-to-government with strict US technology safeguards. Limited numbers of F35s might serve as a stop-gap until India's Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

According to this article, only 2 squadrons, which makes no sense. Neither will you achieve any credible deterrence, while spending a fortune to maintain them.

 

[Hari Sud]

I think this euphoria around F-35 will die down in a week to 10 days time as there are huge reservations on both sides.

As per the joint statement the US has already set Stryker/Javelin/P-8I for this year's "hegemon tax" quota.

India is a non serious nation... I have repeatedly said... without a military humiliation that cannot be media managed (like Balakot & Ladakh) nothing positive is going to happen.

Modi has remained(for the most part) undefeated in elections... he is writing the script for his defeat on the battlefield with all his humongous delusions like Vasudhaiva kutumbkam, yudh nahi... buddha, not an era of war etc.

He wishes to become taller than Nehru... he will get a worse defeat than Nehru got in 1962.

Nobody has won either on Western border or northern border. Chinese intimidate only with numbers. But now those numbers have been equalized. They need five times more military strength to cross the northern passes to cross into India for invasion. Once in India, they are trapped. Hence, They will cleverly do skirmishes only. That score, India can equalize by attacking their major road network.

Pakistan is a Jehadi state. They talk more than they deliver especially with a begging bowl in hand. They have lost 4 wars and 5th war if fought will be final and then the wars with them are over. Nobody in their friends will let them use nuclear weapons because return salvo will be so great that none will be left in Pakistan for Jehad.

So have confidence, don’t go by propaganda. The Pakistanis don’t have money to buy petroleum to fly their planes or move their tanks, let alone fight a war. Their propaganda machine is army controlled who pretend to be very confident.

Cheers

 

[Nibbler]

To estimate the takeoff distance of the F-35C without a catapult at 60% fuel and no weapons, we need to consider several aerodynamic and performance factors:

Step 1: Define Aircraft Parameters

Weight (W): 21,176 kg (from previous calculation)

Takeoff Speed (V_TO): Estimated 150 knots (77 m/s) for this configuration

Thrust (T): 191 kN (afterburner)

Wing Area (S): 62.1 m²

Lift Coefficient at Takeoff (C_L_TO): Estimated ~1.0 with flaps deployed

Drag Coefficient (C_D): Estimated ~0.03 in takeoff configuration

Air Density (ρ): 1.225 kg/m³ (at sea level)


Step 2: Calculate Lift (L) at Takeoff Speed

Lift equation:

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L ≈ 226.5 \text{ kN}

Since weight (21,176 kg × 9.81 m/s² = 207.7 kN) is lower than lift (226.5 kN), the aircraft can take off at this speed.

Step 3: Calculate Acceleration (a)

Net force equation:

F_{\text{net}} = T - D - R

Drag (D) =

Rolling resistance (R) ≈ 0.02 W (estimated for carrier decks)


D = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (77)^2 (62.1) (0.03) \approx 6.8 \text{ kN}

R = 0.02 \times 207.7 \approx 4.2 \text{ kN} ]

F_{\text{net}} = 191 - 6.8 - 4.2 = 180 \text{ kN}

a = \frac{F_{\text{net}}}{m} = \frac{180,000}{21,176} \approx 8.5 \text{ m/s}^2 ]

Step 4: Estimate Takeoff Distance

Using kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

d = \frac{V^2}{2a} = \frac{(77)^2}{2(8.5)} ]

d ≈ 350 \text{ m}

Conclusion: Estimated Takeoff Distance

Takeoff run ≈ 350 meters (1150 feet) on a flat surface.


Now for, F-35C Takeoff from INS Vikrant's 14° Ski Jump (200m Runway)

Given:

Ski-jump angle: 14°

Ski-jump length: ~30m

Total available takeoff run: ~200m

Weight (60% fuel, no weapons): 21,176 kg

Thrust (afterburner): 191 kN

Lift coefficient (C_L_TO): ~1.0

Drag coefficient (C_D): ~0.03

Takeoff speed (V_TO, estimated): ~77 m/s (150 knots)

Acceleration (flat deck, calculated earlier): 8.5 m/s²



---

Step 1: Check Acceleration Over 200m

Using the kinematic equation:

V^2 = 2 a d

V = \sqrt{2 (8.5) (200)} ]

V \approx 58 m/s

At 200m, the F-35C reaches ~58 m/s (112 knots), which is below the estimated takeoff speed of ~77 m/s. This means it would not take off purely based on runway acceleration—it relies on the ski jump.


---

Step 2: Effect of the 14° Ski Jump

The ski jump provides a vertical velocity component (V_y) upon exit:


V_y = V \sin(14^\circ)

V_y \approx 58 \times 0.241 ]

V_y \approx 14 m/s

The horizontal velocity (V_x) remains:


V_x = V \cos(14^\circ)

V_x \approx 58 \times 0.97 ]

V_x \approx 56 m/s

Total velocity after ski-jump:


V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{V_x^2 + V_y^2}

V_{\text{total}} = \sqrt{56^2 + 14^2} \approx 58.7 \text{ m/s} ]


---

Step 3: Check If F-35C Can Stay Airborne

The aircraft will stay airborne if lift force (L) is at least equal to weight (W).

L = \frac{1}{2} \rho V^2 S C_L

L = \frac{1}{2} (1.225) (58.7)^2 (62.1) (1.0) ]

L \approx 161 \text{ kN}

Required lift (weight force):

W = 21,176 \times 9.81 = 207.7 \text{ kN}

Since 161 kN < 207.7 kN, the F-35C does not generate enough lift immediately after leaving the ski jump and would start descending.


---

Step 4: Can the F-35C Recover in Flight?

The aircraft still has significant thrust (191 kN) vs. drag (~6.8 kN at 58 m/s), meaning it can accelerate further after launch.

The F-35C's high angle of attack (AoA) capability allows it to pitch up aggressively, increasing C_L to ~1.5-1.7, generating more lift.

If the pilot manages a smooth AoA transition, the aircraft may sustain flight after a brief altitude loss.



---

Final Verdict: Can the F-35C Take Off from INS Vikrant?

Barely possible, but extremely risky.

Will experience altitude drop after the ski jump before regaining lift.

Would require perfect AoA control and afterburner thrust.

Would severely limit takeoff payload (no weapons, possibly less fuel).


Practical Answer: No, the F-35C is not suited for Vikrant's STOBAR setup. A STOVL aircraft like the F-35B or MiG-29K/Rafale-M with better low-speed handling is required.


We ain't getting f35 "C"
There's a reason UK went with F 35B for its carriers not the C varient

1+1 = 11

 

[Rai89]

Buying 36 Rafale was the worst decision we ever made. Again this makes IAF a lab for all aero manufacturers. We should have either gone for 126+ 54 for AF and Navy or zero. Going 36 made no sense at all. It would have been better if we bought ~90 SU 30 MKI and upgraded all 20 sq of them to Super Sukhoi standards. Don't know why we are not buying more Super Sukhois to fill the gap for MMRCA. No country has 3 weight classes of fighters, only the IAF dreams of one. Once the "Raptor" of Asia is now not even considered for high upgrades. While I am aware of the opex and maintenance issues with Su30MKI, getting so many types of fighters doesn't make any sense.

The way forward should be to make up the numbers with Super Sukhoi, and Tejas MK1A, retire your older fighter jets, and make way for MK2 and AMCA eventually. If you really want the 5th gen, then buy it for both the Navy and Airforce, no need to buy Rafale M when the F35 is on the table. Particularly the F35B can even be used from our LPD and it doesn't pose a threat to AMCA too.
If you want to make compromises, then go all in. Don't make half-hearted decisions like Rafale.

My assumption was that the 36 Rafale were primarily ordered to replace the Mirages in a nuclear delivery role. The IAF is already a zoo and I dislike adding more types of fighters. However, if 36 Rafale are required for air launched nuclear capability then maybe the cost is acceptable. Hopefully, in the future the AMCA can fulfil this role.

 

[Ayan Barat]

However, if 36 Rafale are required for air launched nuclear capability then maybe the cost is acceptable.

• We don't have air launched nuclear missiles that need dedicated platforms. Heck we don't even have any guided nuclear bomb, atleast in public knowledge.
• Anything that's not a warhead for ballistic missiles are just good ol' dumb bomb where you "authorise" it on ground and then just drop it. Even the MiG-21s were theoretically capable of carrying the RN-24 nuclear bomb.
• Even if we've a secret nuclear munition then also a foreign fighter whose source code we don't have makes the worst platform for nuclear delivery.

My assumption was that the 36 Rafale were primarily ordered to replace the Mirages in a nuclear delivery role.

• Order 0 Rafale; IAF - and Opposition -
• Order 126 Rafale; IAF - and Opposition -
• Something in between 0 - 126; IAF - and Opposition -

I know it's extremely complicated and all technological, but that's my theory.

 

[bruno]

3 squadrons will be ordered

How can you be so sure ?

 

[bruno]

We don't have air launched nuclear missiles that need dedicated platforms. Heck we don't even have any guided nuclear bomb, atleast in public knowledge.
• Anything that's not a warhead for ballistic missiles are just good ol' dumb bomb where you "authorise" it on ground and then just drop it. Even the MiG-21s were theoretically capable of carrying the RN-24 nuclear bomb.
• Even if we've a secret nuclear munition then also a foreign fighter whose source code we don't have makes the worst platform for nuclear delivery.

Even if you don't have any guided bomb or missile, and this kind of "dumb" bomb can be delivered technically by any aircraft doesn't mean that it is a suitable aircraft for the role.

Rafale is made to penetrate deeply into ennemi territory. Not sure you'll have the same survivability with other aircraft. Not because there are bad aircraft, but because there are not made for this.

With Rafale B you can carry one passenger. That does not mean that it is a transport aircraft
It is a dumb example, but...

 

[IndiaRising]

How can you be so sure ?

Numbers floating around are somewhere between 2-3 squadrons. 36-50… I have a contact within TASL who told me this news just yesterday that they feel very confident that F-35 will be ordered because IAF is genuinely interested and also the Trump threat of sanctions is forcing GoI’s hands. He told me by June DSCA notification should come. The main point of contention for IAF is that the want AN/APG 85 not 81. Also, IAF is keen to integrate its own desi SOWs and PGMs. TASL makes F-16 wings iirc. They are a part of the LM ecosystem but believe what u want. I could be wrong.

 

[IndiaRising]

IAF was highly impressed by the Israeli strikes in Iran last year, especially with the F-35s running SEAD/DEAD ops deep within Iran. Iran took a brutal beating. They won’t raise that red flag of revenge anymore, as it’s basically a sign of Khomenei’s menstrual periods.