Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[haldilal]

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

IMO India doesn't want to take on any more fighter projects until it has sorted out its development and production process. All current projects are many years years behind schedule. With the setup that has existed for decades, there is no reason to think that future projects will not follow the same pattern.

If India can't stomach addressing the inadequacy on its airframe side, at least push on with Kaveri so that it is available by the time Tejas Mk1 and later Mk1A need replacement engines, I presume in the 2030's. If the personnel of GTRE are incapable of doing that, I suggest either hiring foreign engineers and managers who are capable of doing that or paying a foreign OEM to get it working. I also suggest investing heavily in R&D so that India becomes capable of designing and producing acceptably good fast jet engines., a point it has not reached after 30 years of half heartedly trying.

I find it absurd that India is prepared to spend many billions of dollars on importing fighters yet is not prepared to invest in the R&D to make it possible to make its own. 36 Rafale, for example, I think cost more than it would cost to design, build, test and certify a 110kN engine. 114 MRFA would, I think, cost more than getting an engine for AMCA designed and developed AND getting Kaveri working AND 114 Tejas Mk2. .

Ok, you said about 4 things - new project Vs existing ones, Kaveri, foreign involvement, R&D funding.
> New project Vs existing ones

- Technologically only AMCA is latest but is insufficient in payload, fuel, speed, range, etc. Only 4 AAMs with no CCM. All jets try their best to remain outside the NEZ of enemy AAM while trying to shoot their AAMs & lots of fuel are required for repeated attempts. Merge & furball is very dangerous.​

- In 2040s we'll see NGAD, GCAP, FCAS flying + some Chinese jet also.​

- J-20 might replace many MKKs, J-11s, etc.​

- Pakistan might get J-31, Kaan.​

- LCA airframe design is obsolete & inadequate. MWF is just its inflation.​

- TEDBF will also use 2xF414 like AMCA but won't be stealth. It will be 1st design with all-moving canard. God knows how many years will it take to be perfect.​

- It is fate of all global older 4.5gen jets to be surpassed by newer 5/6gen jets, just like the fate of 1/2/3gen jets, be it Rafale, EF-2000, F-15/16/18, all Flankers Su-3X - MKK, MKM, MKA, MKI, SM, 35-S, J-11/16, etc. 100% MLU is impossible financially & technically bcoz the airframe itself is inadequate &/or inappropriate.​

- Only 1 class of engine cannot satisfy a sub-continental nation like ours needing at least 3 types of jets with different capabilities.​

- Some people worry about fuel consumption, maintenance cost but forget that neither we can get F135 like powerful engine nor 1 engine suffice to maintain T/W ratio. F-35 already proved it & hence getting an ECU.​

- Some people neglect Economy per sortie - how many weapons can be delivered w/o getting destroyed. F-15, Flankers can carry 12/14 AAMs but what if they get killed after firing just 4 AAMs? 5/6gen jets are supposed to be sneaky pack-hunters.​

- Su-30MKI with AL-31 engine is glorified but no support to use AL-31 for R&D.​

- Russia & China cannot match Western quality yet, still their products & forces have survived well & will survive. But our people want to wait endlessly for the best quality imported stuff or when we will hopefully achieve that best quality level.​

- This is a time for urgency for us just like USA had for the ATF program.​

Jan 26, 1973 1st formal ATF requirements document issued​

May 21, 1981 formal request for info issued to 9 companies​

Nov 28, 1981 approval given to ATF program​

Oct 31, 1986 construction begins of YF-22​

> Kaveri engine

- I already said GTRE &/or private firm have to succeed.​

- Can Kaveri or F414 class engine power F-15 class jet? NO.​

- And we are already 34yrs past YF-22/23 so can those engines power F-22 class jet? NO.​

> Foreign involvement

- JV talks are happening but only for F414 class engine or little better AFAIK. They are not focussing on technical limits & future beyond that.​

- Will there be effort to develop VCE? USA & EU are going to operate NGAD, GCAP, FCAS with VCE which we can't import for at least 3-4 decades.​

> R&D funding

- Ideally, the questions should be asked to :​

- Defence Minister​

- Finance Minister​

- IAF chief​

- Private business tycoons like Tata, Ambani, Adani, etc, who want to bag foreign deals to make old design jets but not future assets.​

- Our IAF chief says a 1-liner that we have 6gen roadmap, that's it, no timeline given. Our people want to create 6gen jet with F414/EJ-200/M-88????​

- Or they want to start drawing & talking after 20-30 years??​

So due to all these reasons i said if we have at least a higher thrust engine like F110, AL-41 or AL-31 then we can make a jet better than AMCA in class of F-15/Flanker.
A stealthy Flanker class jet is better than non-stealthy Flanker, simple.
If LCA can be inflated, so can AMCA. So i wouldn't call it a 100% new project but an iteration.

 

[BON PLAN]

We want to give India F-16 Fighting Falcon fighter jets: US Major General

Major General David A Piffarerio, Mobilization Assistant to the Deputy Commander of the US Pacific Air Forces (PACAF), said on Thursday that the United States is ready to offer F-16 fighter jets to India | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

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"We want to give India F-16s": US Major General Piffarerio

Jodhpur [Rajasthan], September 12 (ANI): Major General David A Piffarerio, Mobilization Assistant to the Deputy Commander of the US Pacific Air Forces (PACAF), said on Thursday that the United States is ready to offer F-16 fighter jets to India. Speaking with reporters on India’s defence sector...

theprint.in

View attachment 9251

US is ready to offer F-16 fighter jets to India, depends on Indian Air Force what they want: Major General with US Pacific Air Forces​

Major General David A Piffarerio added, "We certainly want to give them the best that we have -- the F-16s. But ultimately it's going to be a choice for the Indian Air Force on what they want to do with their air defence."

Major General David A Piffarerio, Mobilization Assistant to the Deputy Commander of the US Pacific Air Forces (PACAF), said on Thursday that the United States is ready to offer F-16 fighter jets to India.


Speaking with reporters on India’s defence sector and F-16 Fighting Falcon fighter jets, Major General Piffarerio said, “…The more options that are out there, I think the stronger the Indian Air Force is going to be in the future.”


He added, “We certainly want to give them the best that we have — the F-16s. But ultimately it’s going to be a choice for the Indian Air Force on what they want to do with their air defence.”

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Hmmmm....

IAF already said they don't want it.
A desperate attempt....

 

[FalconSlayers]

New Chief of Air Staff appointed

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1837401448143114328