Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

Ccp is not in a “state of hubris”. They are in a state of uncertainty and fear. Don’t let wumao internet chest thumping guide your understanding of china.

I think the best way to evaluate whether china will go to war is to:

1. Open a topographical map of tibet
2. Put down on paper. what the Chinese stand to gain by getting land that is hostile to human life
3. Put down on paper what they stand to lose
4. See if any rational human will take that gamble.



1 out of 3 Chinese will be over the age of 60 in that time frame. With lifetime of chain smoking and breathing in glorious air quality of china.

I don’t think India should get complacent (especially in the Indian Ocean) but I do think it’s ok to bask in the glory of our geographical and demographic advantages and not indulge too much in Mujeet fantasies that cheen is going to come jumping over Himalayas to save them.

They will cease rationality once they grab Taiwan unnopposed which will happen.
They have an excess of male population ready to be thrown into a meatgrinder war.

India is the only nail in all of Asia that has to be hammered down by China, nobody else stands up to their ungli, the other superpower nail will fuck off back to California since bases and ships can be moved but whole countries can't change their geography.

In the end i think Chinku wants their own version of Monroe Doctrine where all of Asia is in their thrall, like how Latin America is to the US

 

[Illusive]

Not being a step ahead is pretty much the norm isn't it regardless of what your enemies and rivals are in isn't it. We are just too slow in lot of areas and that what concerns me. Having to do everything at the last minute and make things more complicated than it should have been. We need to do better because we can and we have already seen it with Navy that its possible to have a plan and execute it to our best abilities.

 

[shade2]

Not being a step ahead is pretty much the norm isn't it regardless of what your enemies and rivals are in isn't it. We are just too slow in lot of areas and that what concerns me. Having to do everything at the last minute and make things more complicated than it should have been. We need to do better because we can and we have already seen it with Navy that its possible to have a plan and execute it to our best abilities.

Indian Navy designs it's own warships and has them built by our assortment of PSU Shipyards, they have project responsibility end-to-end, they are responsible for popping out their warships per their schedule, the specs, the weaponry, the electronics, everything.

Indian Navy is a responsible force, responsible for ships, equipment of commandos etc.


Imported Army and Imported Air Force meanwhile behave like petulant, entitled (((customers))) asking
>DRDO/HAL/whoever to produce a design according to their conveniently ever changing specs,
>get the agency to produce prototypes,
>do over 9000 types of testing,
>complain about delays, ask for design changes mid-way(hmm, Arjun needs integrated mine plough )
>do another 9000 tests,
>come up with some bogus (((flaw))) arising from previous "feature" demand( Arjun is too heavy, it sinks in deserts of Thar ),
>complain about delays, then buy foreign platform that doesn't meet any of previous onerous specifications ( T-90 )

Solution is to add the relevant Marshall Race uniform wearers with the required technical chops to the DRDO/HAL/whatever other bloody civilian agency, so they are unable to run their current scam of changing specs mid way after 5-6 years of development.

It is a great black comedy of this country that the most needed and well funded wings of armed forces are lead by irresponsible malai-khor retards, while the wing that is the least likely to see action and gets the least budget just gets sh!t done without any drama

 

[Corvus Splendens]

I have a stinking feeling the IAF will look to induct the Su-57 in the coming years. PAF would likely induct J-35 Export. Only a third of the Su-30MKI fleet is chalked up for modernization. Naturally IAF needs another heavy fighter as a replacement. The Su-57 is export ready now, and Iran might buy some. We'd lose some edge in the neighborhood while China, Pakistan, Iran (and Singapore) all operate 5th gen fighters. We lost the 5th gen edge to China already, but the Himalayas affect Air to Air combat up North. No such convenience down south. If we do end up inducting the Su-57, it'd better be mated to an Indian AESA and mission computer; missile compatibility and engine ToT are a given. I've always envisioned the Su-57 as, not a stealth fighter, but a heavy replacement of the Su-30. Since we don't have a comparable jet in the pipeline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBLpw6aemQ

 

[Ayan Barat]

Goddamnit
Just one day after I asked this

Was that Il-38 using a SDR to communicate with the base? What level of encrypted radio communication was being used?

We've this...

Indigenous SDR's on naval air assets

Romeos done, Navy to install indigenous software-defined radio in all its aerial assets

SDR, which has been developed by Navy along with BEL, is already fitted in surface ships. Device helps in carrying out signal processing using radio frequency communication systems.

theprint.in

From the article "...MH-60R Seahawk helicopters, also known as Romeos, have become the first naval aerial platform to be fitted with the indigenous system that allows encrypted communication...Before it was developed, the Navy used conventional radios for communication..."

Ye AGM-114 Bhai Sahab bhi na, pata nahi kya hi samajhte hain

 

[GaudaNaresh]

They will cease rationality once they grab Taiwan unnopposed which will happen.
They have an excess of male population ready to be thrown into a meatgrinder war.

India is the only nail in all of Asia that has to be hammered down by China, nobody else stands up to their ungli, the other superpower nail will fuck off back to California since bases and ships can be moved but whole countries can't change their geography.

In the end i think Chinku wants their own version of Monroe Doctrine where all of Asia is in their thrall, like how Latin America is to the US

No and No.
Taiwan is the ukraine scenario for China, not taking land from a nuclear power like their Russia/India scenarios.
Also, china does not have excess male population - they have shortage of males and even greater shortage of females. Roughly 33% of China will be retirees by 2050. Add in the children + invalids + the ill and you are looking at literally 50% of chinese population being economically 0 in productivity. So they cant afford to throw away their men.

As i said, the reason there has never been a war between two nuclear powers is NOT because of 'MAD' scenario - which is actually a scientific hyperbole ( launching most of our nukes will not end in global blackout and ice age, it will lead to continental scale of irradiation and sharp increase in cancer and aplastic anemia and that kind of stuff).
The main reason we've never had war between two nuclear powers, is no one has been able to solve the scenario of 'we threw the kitchen sink at them, we got in 200km in their land then they nuked their own land and killed half our military'.
THIS is the scenario that has remained unsolved and until it gets solved, there wont be any war between nuclear nations. And the DAY this scenario is solved, is the day you will have major wars between nuclear powers.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I have a stinking feeling the IAF will look to induct the Su-57 in the coming years. PAF would likely induct J-35 Export. Only a third of the Su-30MKI fleet is chalked up for modernization. Naturally IAF needs another heavy fighter as a replacement. The Su-57 is export ready now, and Iran might buy some. We'd lose some edge in the neighborhood while China, Pakistan, Iran (and Singapore) all operate 5th gen fighters. We lost the 5th gen edge to China already, but the Himalayas affect Air to Air combat up North. No such convenience down south. If we do end up inducting the Su-57, it'd better be mated to an Indian AESA and mission computer; missile compatibility and engine ToT are a given. I've always envisioned the Su-57 as, not a stealth fighter, but a heavy replacement of the Su-30. Since we don't have a comparable jet in the pipeline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBLpw6aemQ

Su-57 isnt an air superiority stealth fighter.
its an interceptor-bomber stealth fighter. Thats why its designed to maximize manueverability at the expense of rear end stealth.
It means, its designed purpose is to get into dogfighting range of the F22 and out-dog fight it our bomb a target unnoticed and fack off with afterburners before anyone is the wiser.
It is not meant for BVR combat with other fighters as its main forte ( air superiority).

 

[Azaad]

I have a stinking feeling the IAF will look to induct the Su-57 in the coming years. PAF would likely induct J-35 Export. Only a third of the Su-30MKI fleet is chalked up for modernization. Naturally IAF needs another heavy fighter as a replacement. The Su-57 is export ready now, and Iran might buy some. We'd lose some edge in the neighborhood while China, Pakistan, Iran (and Singapore) all operate 5th gen fighters. We lost the 5th gen edge to China already, but the Himalayas affect Air to Air combat up North. No such convenience down south. If we do end up inducting the Su-57, it'd better be mated to an Indian AESA and mission computer; missile compatibility and engine ToT are a given. I've always envisioned the Su-57 as, not a stealth fighter, but a heavy replacement of the Su-30. Since we don't have a comparable jet in the pipeline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBLpw6aemQ

Frankly what're suggesting doesn't make sense @induct Su-57E whereas the IAF is upgrading only a third of the total MKIs in our fleet. Having said that the IAF move makes even less sense .

However given the huge sums involved in the upgradations I'd reckon the IAF would be undertaking these upgradations in a phased manner though the Time Lines given are unbelievably atrocious. First MKIs to be upgraded in 7 yrs from now & 8 years thereafter to upgrade 80 MKIs.

If the Su-57s are to be inducted we need them ASAP in at least 2-3 squadrons in the same form & shape as the VKS receives it . All those experimentation you're suggesting w.r.t the AESA radar , avionics etc which we undertook in the MKI is a time consuming exercise which may easily take a decade or a decade & a half.

Strangely that's exactly what the IAF has in mind for the MRFA as the ACM declared in his first PC. I don't think Dassault will be amenable to this at all . However the Eurofighter might given there're no new orders for it & no takers for it as well.

IMO whatever we're inducting has to be done now given our upcoming war against China. Once we're through with it , the rest doesn't matter. Paxtan doesn't matter today never will matter tomorrow.

All these experimentations then are better saved for our own platforms viz Mk-2 , AMCA Mk-1 & Mk-2 , TEDBF etc . We can extend this to a possible LCA Mk-1b for the 97 nos in the second tranche of the LCA s we're ordering . We need to embark on studies for a 6th Gen FA shortly . All these programs require our immediate attention.

 

[shade2]

No and No.
Taiwan is the ukraine scenario for China, not taking land from a nuclear power like their Russia/India scenarios.
Also, china does not have excess male population - they have shortage of males and even greater shortage of females. Roughly 33% of China will be retirees by 2050. Add in the children + invalids + the ill and you are looking at literally 50% of chinese population being economically 0 in productivity. So they cant afford to throw away their men.

As i said, the reason there has never been a war between two nuclear powers is NOT because of 'MAD' scenario - which is actually a scientific hyperbole ( launching most of our nukes will not end in global blackout and ice age, it will lead to continental scale of irradiation and sharp increase in cancer and aplastic anemia and that kind of stuff).
The main reason we've never had war between two nuclear powers, is no one has been able to solve the scenario of 'we threw the kitchen sink at them, we got in 200km in their land then they nuked their own land and killed half our military'.
THIS is the scenario that has remained unsolved and until it gets solved, there wont be any war between nuclear nations. And the DAY this scenario is solved, is the day you will have major wars between nuclear powers.

Nope that's the Crimea scenario my dude assuming the Burgers & Friends don't intervene.
Taiwan will fold in less than a month, it has a mere 20 million people as compared to the PRChings 1.4 billion and is a tiny island when compared to the largest country aside from Russia in Europe that is Ukraine.

They will mercilessly slaughter any Taiwanese krantikaris also just to send a message.

It is we who are the Ukraine scenario, we are the same morass in which they will get stuck, fighting a pointless battle in the mountains where the war will drag on for years and the front will remain more or less static, They filled with hubris will go after us next to flex on the other, lesser powers of Asia, since just like Ukraine we have a paucity of "maal" however here like Ukraine the gora sahib will come to (((help))) with piecemeal donations, meanwhile they will bang Chinese with sanctions, and most importantly park a few CBGs in the SCS,

Perhaps they will win in the end because of their Industrial prowess like Russia is today, but they will be weakened enough and Taiwan will be strengthened with a few US bases that they won't be able to grab that island ever

Their sex ratio is fucked and they have too many men, as for the question of age, Ukraine fields 40-60 year olds also, maybe Russia does the same.

Your nuclear scenario will never come into play because of our Gandian (((no first use policy))), They will literally take the L of losing AP to the Chinkus rather than use nukes

 

[shade2]

However the Eurofighter might given there're no new orders for it & no takers for it as well.

NATO Cockroach mulq is going to purchase 40, Germany has given the greenlight and UK, Spain and Italy have already greenlit it

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Nope that's the Crimea scenario my dude assuming the Burgers & Friends don't intervene.
Taiwan will fold in less than a month, it has a mere 20 million people as compared to the PRChings 1.4 billion and is a tiny island when compared to the largest country aside from Russia in Europe that is Ukraine.

They will mercilessly slaughter any Taiwanese krantikaris also just to send a message.

It is we who are the Ukraine scenario, we are the same morass in which they will get stuck, fighting a pointless battle in the mountains where the war will drag on for years and the front will remain more or less static, They filled with hubris will go after us next to flex on the other, lesser powers of Asia, since just like Ukraine we have a paucity of "maal" however here like Ukraine the gora sahib will come to (((help))) with piecemeal donations, meanwhile they will bang Chinese with sanctions, and most importantly park a few CBGs in the SCS,

Perhaps they will win in the end because of their Industrial prowess like Russia is today, but they will be weakened enough and Taiwan will be strengthened with a few US bases that they won't be able to grab that island ever

Their sex ratio is fucked and they have too many men, as for the question of age, Ukraine fields 40-60 year olds also, maybe Russia does the same.

Your nuclear scenario will never come into play because of our Gandian (((no first use policy))), They will literally take the L of losing AP to the Chinkus rather than use nukes

well crimea/ukraine scenario as in nuclear power vs non nuclear power with nuclear backers, is what i meant. whether its crimea or donbass depends on how quickly it goes down but given how fortified taiwan itself is, it will be donbass, unless china goes nuke first.

If front remains more or less static, it favours us, not them. We have decisive advantage in montane warfare over the chinese - not only are our supply lines shorter and our manpower base much bigger, we are also far better trained at montane warfare, thanks to continuous kashmir related fuckery that allows us to skill up our troops better than any exercise ever will.

If China wants to show up and wage ww1 style battle of the inches with more or less static battle lines at 5000m altitude, thats more or less the best case scenario for a land war with China, so i highly doubt China would want that either.

Our policy may be gandhian, but that is NOT a risk China or any adversary will take. If you were china, you are not gonna take the risk of 'trust me bro, they are too pussy to nuke their own territory' as the guarantor of the war, you will want a solution to 'how do we get our troops from not getting nuked once we reach itanagar' as your main failsafe.

 

[shade2]

well crimea/ukraine scenario as in nuclear power vs non nuclear power with nuclear backers, is what i meant. whether its crimea or donbass depends on how quickly it goes down but given how fortified taiwan itself is, it will be donbass, unless china goes nuke first.

If front remains more or less static, it favours us, not them. We have decisive advantage in montane warfare over the chinese - not only are our supply lines shorter and our manpower base much bigger, we are also far better trained at montane warfare, thanks to continuous kashmir related fuckery that allows us to skill up our troops better than any exercise ever will.

If China wants to show up and wage ww1 style battle of the inches with more or less static battle lines at 5000m altitude, thats more or less the best case scenario for a land war with China, so i highly doubt China would want that either.

Our policy may be gandhian, but that is NOT a risk China or any adversary will take. If you were china, you are not gonna take the risk of 'trust me bro, they are too pussy to nuke their own territory' as the guarantor of the war, you will want a solution to 'how do we get our troops from not getting nuked once we reach itanagar' as your main failsafe.

Yes but ask yourself can we win ?
Look at our current inventory, look at our production, look at our supply chain
We cannot, they will win, war of attrition is absolutely nothing for them.

As for risk the Chings find it absolutely 0 risk since they have ascertained our leadership is and will always be pussies, so yes the Nuclear issue doesn't come into play.

I mean you would be 100% correct if we were debating "Will China invade current Russia to grab some free land" in regards to the Nukes because Putin will do the needful in various ways, tactical nuke, ICBM, bomb, SLBM the works

This is all assuming we are the bullying victim after the Taiwan grab is done, before that we will be avoided beyond the usual salami slicing tactics

They have only one chance, one shot, one opportunity to grab Taiwan before the W*st knows whats happening, they are not going to blow it by getting into some garbage attrition conflict with us in cancer mountains over muh Soooth Tibeeeet and expose themselves to Western sanctions and Taiwan getting USN protection like a few CBGs around it and US bases on the island itself.

So will they capture it, or let it slip?

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Yes but ask yourself can we win ?
Look at our current inventory, look at our production, look at our supply chain
We cannot, they will win, war of attrition is absolutely nothing for them.

As for risk the Chings find it absolutely 0 risk since they have ascertained our leadership is and will always be pussies, so yes the Nuclear issue doesn't come into play.

I mean you would be 100% correct if we were debating "Will China invade current Russia to grab some free land" in regards to the Nukes because Putin will do the needful in various ways, tactical nuke, ICBM, bomb, SLBM the works

This is all assuming we are the bullying victim after the Taiwan grab is done, before that we will be avoided beyond the usual salami slicing tactics

They have only one chance, one shot, one opportunity to grab Taiwan before the W*st knows whats happening, they are not going to blow it by getting into some garbage attrition conflict with us in cancer mountains over muh Soooth Tibeeeet and expose themselves to Western sanctions and Taiwan getting USN protection like a few CBGs around it and US bases on the island itself.

So will they capture it, or let it slip?

View attachment 15344

If this was the case, we'd already be attacked by now, as our gap with the Chinese is the greatest at this point and is only going to close. Taiwan isnt ukraine of 2022, its Ukraine of 2023. It already is extremely heavily fortified and significant distance from the chinese mainland - most war gamers on either side usually simulate 100K-200K casualties during landing for the chinese from the taiwanese alone.
So no, taiwan isnt gonna be quick, else they'd have done it by now as well.

 

[Ajith Kamath]

Generals thread to discuss everything about the Indian Air Force

P

 

[Azaad]

NATO Cockroach mulq is going to purchase 40, Germany has given the greenlight and UK, Spain and Italy have already greenlit it

Eurofighter Typhoon procurement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As of the present only Spain has placed an order for some 25 FAs. Germany & Italy have confirmed a requirement of 20 & 24 new FAs respectively. However the orders are yet to be placed . UK is going in for additional F-35s.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

IIRC IAF had a plan to buy Mirage-2000s around the world to 'tide over' the gaps from delays in procurement. We were in talks with UAE and Greece and there's like 200+ Mirage-2000s in service around the world, with several of their operators, such as UAE, Greece, Taiwan slated to replace them in the next few years with F-35 or other american maal.
Whatever happened to that ???

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

One quality of the Indian bureaucracy & diplomacy is that they are vengeful... they never forget.

All the Nanga naach Italian pappu did from 2017 to 2019 to malign the rafale deal was sponsored by Eurofighter consortium... yes it's true. Eurofighter walas should simply forget getting any deal. More than the BJP... pappu made life hell for the bureaucrats & diplomats who were involved in the deal.

Germany was leading the Eurofighter bid in India... on losing... German bhadwas got mad and leaked the details of Indian Scorpene subs online.

There is more history behind Eurofighter... they were favorites of congis. Rafale was never L1. The whole scheming(fixed match) was like this... "At some point talks will break down with the French due to high prices... & then govt will have no option but to go with L2 i.e. Eurofighter". Had congis came back to power in 2014... this is how it would have unfolded.

If it was so why didn't they declare Eurofighter as L1? Italy being a part of consortium was enough for the opposition(BJP) to throw cold water on it & create another bofors... so the congis thought of the above Scheme.

As soon as Modi came in office... Eurofighter began it's tantrums... within 10-15 days of him being in office Eurofighter wrote a letter to PMO in 2nd week of June 2014... offering to reduce prices by 20%... but at that time talks with French were ongoing and it was not right as per procedure to consider the L2.

But what frustrated the Eurofighter walas is that Modi went with Rafale even when it was expensive and never considered breaking talks with them & going to L2 Eurofighter.

 

[silentassassin265]

IIRC IAF had a plan to buy Mirage-2000s around the world to 'tide over' the gaps from delays in procurement. We were in talks with UAE and Greece and there's like 200+ Mirage-2000s in service around the world, with several of their operators, such as UAE, Greece, Taiwan slated to replace them in the next few years with F-35 or other american maal.
Whatever happened to that ???

What's the point of getting more flying coffins

 

[GaudaNaresh]

What's the point of getting more flying coffins

mirage 2000 isnt a flying coffin. Thats mig-21.
mirage was deployed during balakot itself as well.

 

[E-195]

mirage 2000 isnt a flying coffin. Thats mig-21.
mirage was deployed during balakot itself as well.

If i was in charge of the IDF i would buy Su-35 if the Indian stealth fighter program was going well on time and budget, but if it was not, I would buy Su-57, no Rafales, no Eurofighter, just Su-35 since It would had commonality with my Su-30MKI fleet.

Better to update my Su-30MKI fleet with Su-35 hardware than waste money on fighters that give no real advantages